443 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

spirosz wrote...

Oh, Steel, you don't even need part since you just want clicky link.

Just type  [url ] link [ /url]

and I don't know about iPad.

. Tanks.  I'll see if it works

[Jadebaby]

spirosz wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Still picking destroy.

*image removed*

I'm sorry, that's not an option...

I'm still taking Jack dancing.


We'll do the spidey.

Im an Asari LOL

Modifié par Jadebaby, 07 mars 2013 - 02:10 .

[3DandBeyond]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


And what it says is that organics must assimilate and become partly synthetic in order to "get along".  Hmm, this smacks of what many African Americans did prior to civil rights laws being enacted and even beyond.  They tried to blend in.  Some were lighter skinned so they would pass for white.  So, organics now are told not to just pass for synthetic but to become part synthetic OR ELSE.  Cool diversity message there.

Sure: it's also a strawman. The game never claims you have to agree with the Catalyst's conceit, which you aren't even representing.

Synthesis doesn't eliminate diversity: it does alter biological life so that it can become more synthetic (just like it alters synthetics so they can become more biological), but it doesn't force you in any particular direction and it doesn't make you someone else's species. Post-synthesis Krogan are not the same as post-Synthesis Asari are still not the same as post-synthesis Geth. The direction these species go (and ultimately they're still distinct species and identities) remains up to them: they don't have to pursue further integration with technology, and there's nothing preventing them from working their way back if they really want to.

Or, to put it in your metaphor: black people are still black, and white people are still white. The distinction just stops mattering when the bariers and privelages associated with one or the other are equalized, which is what metaphor!Synthesis does. Synthesis is no more the end to diversity than the end of segregation was: the end of segregation blurred the lines between 'white' and 'black', to the point that now adays increasing numbers of people don't even identify as such and don't blink an eye at the mixing of the groups. It didn't stop there being a 'white' identity or a 'black' identity to those who wanted to keep them.



It's perfectly fine to be disgusted by Synthesis and it's ethical implications, but people should at least get upset by what it is rather than what it is not: Synthesis is not equivalent to the Reapers history and conduct, Synthesis is not racial apartheid, and Synthesis is not the end of diversity.

Well, sorry but here you are wrong or we don't have enough information to form a conclusion.  What then is the purpose of synthesis if people are no different from before?  Why do it?  The tech does something.  Well, it gives full knowledge of all stuff.  That changes people-the Krogan are an example of advancement before readiness.  Also this knowledge, from whose perspective is it given?  Full neutrality of learning does not exist and one person's fact is another person's theory except when learning is only from one point of view.  This removes diversity of thought.

In my metaphor, yes people remain what they were at birth-blacks are still black and whites still white, because they didn't change internally.  Tech that is fully integrated within your DNA is an internal change and makes it permanent.  In my example, people did this (passed for white) in order to get along and be accepted, get jobs, and be able to live.  In synthesis this is done because the kid (and Leviathan and whoever created the crucible) thinks the best solution is forcing people not just to pass for synthetic but to become part-synthetic.  Otherwise, all organic life will be destroyed by synthetics.  You must become the enemy in order to live. 

I fully delineated the difference here in that in synthesis people actually have no choice-there was at least the implication of choice in blacks passing for white.  However, the thing is here that in most of American society a person could be 3/4 white and still be called black.  So, that people often self-identified as such.  And white society was a lot less tolerant of mixed racial blood than was black society.  People that passed for white did so with a lot of risk.



Does the tech cure medical ills-apparently not, at least not right away based upon Joker.  If it will then rightly or wrongly so, it will remove that diversity.  We will become medically and physically similar.  The tech inside everyone is the same tech and it adheres to the DNA, so at least it is similar and creates one big lack of diversity. 

You have no idea what that tech will do internally to people.  Bioware created stories to show what tech could-the Zha'til, TIM, Saren, the Collectors, and so on and then has said it's still a great idea and then people ignore the rest because they can interpret it to mean something good.  Except in all the other examples you knew where the tech came from, who created it, what it was meant to do, and so on.  In synthesis, you have no idea but it's just great.  EDI gives hints but then that makes her a prophet because even she does not know.

[M74]

You still can stay here and play Mass Effect.
Just end the game on your terms, literally.
I for example end the game always after Cronos Station.

[Mcfly616]

Valkyre4 wrote...

Another thread "i am leaving , bye bye" only to see that, in reality, the person is pretty much not going anywhere...

pretty much


Seems more like a cry for attention, rather than an actual farewell

[draconian139]

M74 wrote...

You still can stay here and play Mass Effect.
Just end the game on your terms, literally.
I for example end the game always after Cronos Station.

No, that's not ending the game. That's fanfiction headcanon and it should be outlawed. I have a better solution to this problem, and it will be revealed shortly in a new thread.

[k8ee]

Bob Garbage wrote...

lol. it's amazing how much mental illness Mass Effect has caused.

lol. Truth.

[Holger1405]

3DandBeyond wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MacroSpamMK wrote...

Good, now hold the door open so all the other malcontents can follow you out.

And what business school did you attend?

Yes, see if I like a game I am not served well if the biggest group possible does not also like it.  As a fan I want more people to like it and not more people to hate it.  And that's because I want more of a good thing.  I want another game or series that has some of the characteristics of the game(s) I already love.  If a large section of those that did love the game now hate it then that could mean bad news for any game that comes next.  The dev may say the next game needs to be scaled down or create it with less of what I liked and try more to appeal to mundane fans who never really cared about what made the game good in the first place. 

I daresay that most of the people that loved ME, loved it for the characters and the story and especially that idea of choices carrying forward from game to game.  If so, then saying goodbye and good riddance to people that agree with that may help morph any next game or series into something that you don't love and don't recognize.

We had heated discussions about the endings "back in the days" but I always respected your opinion, because you didn't acted like a Spoiled child as so many here. 

Preposterous threads  like "I'm Done With BioWare" will not Help to channel any idea how we think (and yes, I think our thoughts on what made ME great are pretty similar) the ME franchise should continue towards Bioware. In the contrary, the noise of this threads will suppress reasonable discussions on that topic.

Btw, if Leviathan and Citadel, two out of tree ME3 DLC's, are any indicator, than it is clear that Bioware did understand what the majority of the Fans like and appreciate about Mass Effect.

Modifié par Holger1405, 07 mars 2013 - 03:07 .

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...

  In synthesis this is done because the kid (and Leviathan and whoever created the crucible) thinks the best solution is forcing people not just to pass for synthetic but to become part-synthetic.  Otherwise, all organic life will be destroyed by synthetics.  You must become the enemy in order to live.  

And the enemy must become more like you.

There's a line from Bulworth that covers this; pity it would be a TOS violation.

[Kel Riever]

We like long goodbyes around here, don't we?......

[TheViper8234]

lol bb

[Dean_the_Young]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


And what it says is that organics must assimilate and become partly synthetic in order to "get along".  Hmm, this smacks of what many African Americans did prior to civil rights laws being enacted and even beyond.  They tried to blend in.  Some were lighter skinned so they would pass for white.  So, organics now are told not to just pass for synthetic but to become part synthetic OR ELSE.  Cool diversity message there.

Sure: it's also a strawman. The game never claims you have to agree with the Catalyst's conceit, which you aren't even representing.

Synthesis doesn't eliminate diversity: it does alter biological life so that it can become more synthetic (just like it alters synthetics so they can become more biological), but it doesn't force you in any particular direction and it doesn't make you someone else's species. Post-synthesis Krogan are not the same as post-Synthesis Asari are still not the same as post-synthesis Geth. The direction these species go (and ultimately they're still distinct species and identities) remains up to them: they don't have to pursue further integration with technology, and there's nothing preventing them from working their way back if they really want to.

Or, to put it in your metaphor: black people are still black, and white people are still white. The distinction just stops mattering when the bariers and privelages associated with one or the other are equalized, which is what metaphor!Synthesis does. Synthesis is no more the end to diversity than the end of segregation was: the end of segregation blurred the lines between 'white' and 'black', to the point that now adays increasing numbers of people don't even identify as such and don't blink an eye at the mixing of the groups. It didn't stop there being a 'white' identity or a 'black' identity to those who wanted to keep them.



It's perfectly fine to be disgusted by Synthesis and it's ethical implications, but people should at least get upset by what it is rather than what it is not: Synthesis is not equivalent to the Reapers history and conduct, Synthesis is not racial apartheid, and Synthesis is not the end of diversity.

Well, sorry but here you are wrong or we don't have enough information to form a conclusion.  What then is the purpose of synthesis if people are no different from before?

People are different from before. They're still unique, distinct individuals, but now they're unique, distinct individuals capable of the vaguely synthetic-levels of intelligence gathering and alteration.

Why do it?

Who: you, or the Catalyst?

The Catalyst wants it because it more or less makes Organics and Synthetics fundamentally equal in potential capability, and thus resolves the inevitability fear of the synthetic menace overtaking all organics (since now organics can develop at synthetic-like rates).

You, the player, can want it for any reason you want: because it's the least destructive, because the other options are worse, because you thing sunglasses look ever more wicked with green eyes.

  The tech does something.  Well, it gives full knowledge of all stuff.  That changes people-the Krogan are an example of advancement before readiness.  Also this knowledge, from whose perspective is it given?  Full neutrality of learning does not exist and one person's fact is another person's theory except when learning is only from one point of view.  This removes diversity of thought.

That's a string of assumptions that in no way have to be assumed, starting from 'full knowledge' all the way to 'removes diversity of thought.'

In my metaphor, yes people remain what they were at birth-blacks are still black and whites still white, because they didn't change internally.  Tech that is fully integrated within your DNA is an internal change and makes it permanent.

If it can be integrated, it can also be segregated again.

  In my example, people did this (passed for white) in order to get along and be accepted, get jobs, and be able to live.  In synthesis this is done because the kid (and Leviathan and whoever created the crucible) thinks the best solution is forcing people not just to pass for synthetic but to become part-synthetic.  Otherwise, all organic life will be destroyed by synthetics.  You must become the enemy in order to live. 

Except you aren't becoming an omnicidal AI with gestalt intelligence created from the massacre of civilizations, dedicated to the repitition of the same. Are you even pretending to take a dispasionate view of this? 

Besides which, you're twisting your metaphor: racial segregation is analogous to the Synthetic/Organic divide of opportunity and role, not Synthesis. Synthesis is Integration of two groups by breaking down the former boundaries, not the segregation of them and dominance of one over the other.

I fully delineated the difference here in that in synthesis people actually have no choice-there was at least the implication of choice in blacks passing for white.  However, the thing is here that in most of American society a person could be 3/4 white and still be called black.  So, that people often self-identified as such.  And white society was a lot less tolerant of mixed racial blood than was black society.  People that passed for white did so with a lot of risk.

And you think you're countering what, exactly...?

If anything, you're making an argument that Synthesis isn't going to stop the self-identification of synthetics and organics. A person could be 3/4 synthetics and still be called organic (cyborgs), or 3/4 organic and still be called synthetic (realians and such).

If the argument is that Synthesis and the evolutionary continuation of it is going to be culturally rough as people come to terms with the old barriers being broken down... well, sure. Integration always comes with strife.

Does the tech cure medical ills-apparently not, at least not right away based upon Joker.  If it will then rightly or wrongly so, it will remove that diversity.  We will become medically and physically similar.  The tech inside everyone is the same tech and it adheres to the DNA, so at least it is similar and creates one big lack of diversity. 

A technology that does NOT  cure all medical ills immediately is thus removing diversity?

And where do you get that the tech inside everyone is the same? All the organics have DNA, but it's not the same. EDI and Legion and the Reapers are all synthetics, but they aren't the same either.

You have no idea what that tech will do internally to people.  Bioware created stories to show what tech could-the Zha'til, TIM, Saren, the Collectors, and so on and then has said it's still a great idea and then people ignore the rest because they can interpret it to mean something good.  Except in all the other examples you knew where the tech came from, who created it, what it was meant to do, and so on.  In synthesis, you have no idea but it's just great.  EDI gives hints but then that makes her a prophet because even she does not know.

So we're in agreement that technology is diverse. Okay.

[3DandBeyond]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
snipped

So we're in agreement that technology is diverse. Okay.

Different types of tech are diverse-the tech that's inserted into every organic thing is not.  And you know I never said it was.

You keep twisting my words so I definitely can't take you seriously.

Have fun I think you know better but can't act better.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 mars 2013 - 05:38 .

[SpamBot2000]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...


No, it's just biocide, once and for all.

Nope. Categorically incorrect, since no one dies from it.

It is the end of non-synthetic life. Thus, total biocide. I fail to see any categorical error in this assessment.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 08 mars 2013 - 11:04 .

[BleedingUranium]

SpamBot2000 wrote...


It is the end of non-synthetic life. Thus, total biocide. I fail to see any categorical error in this assessment.

Yes. Organic life ceases to exist.

[Applepie_Svk]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...


No, it's just biocide, once and for all.

Nope. Categorically incorrect, since no one dies from it.

It is the end of non-synthetic life. Thus, total biocide. I fail to see any categorical error in this assessment.

It´s biocide but only of actual cycle of life in our galaxy, in future maybe few millions years ago organic life will ocure once again - what we know now is the organic evolution nothing more then miracle occuring by little chance. Then again while the power used by Crucible had to be big enough to impact whole Milky Way it´s not going beyond the Milky way thru dark space to other galaxies, ergo the life within the corners of Milky Way will be unaffected which is another error in Catalyst´s logic. Catalyst said that he has given the task to preserve life, but he is failing misserably in grasping the size of the problem which he is supposed to solve. What we know is that space is infinite and how could you impact something which has no end neither the start.

[Helios969]

Bye. See ya next week.

[saracen16]

Babye. Don't let the door hit you in the **** on the way out, mmkay?

[Argentoid]

Bye.

Left you some food on the fridge in case you come back late for dinner.