348 réponses à ce sujet

[Jassu1979]

EDI bought me a ring. How can I just kill her if she bought me a ring?
Still, there's NO way I'll wound Liara by having her go through all the grief and hurt of losing me a second time.

[FlyinElk212]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Hm.  Perhaps I'll just leave that little bit of sexual tension unresolved.

Speaking of which, I REALLY wish there was a way to get everyone at this party just, INSANELY hammered. Then the next morning, they show the same clip of different couples waking up next to each other, then going, "OH SH**!!"

Shep & Javik
Cortez & Traynor
Garrus & Zaeed
Samara & a huge dogpile of James, Kaidan, Joker, Jacob, and Kasumi
Grunt & Eezo, Jack's Varren
Tali & the corpse of Kal Reegar

[VintageUtti]

MattFini wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Think maybe our LIs are trying to tell us something?

This is as clear as BW can make it that, should you choose Destroy, it will all work out. 

I wish they could've SHOWED it. And, in retrosect, they probably wish they HAD as it would've saved them A LOT of headaches.

But, I read this as a massive gesutre of peace on their part. 

And I already made peace with the EC, but this makes it even better. 

Still not perfect but ... honestly, they DO listen to their fans. This whole damn DLC is all the evidence one could ever need. 

My anger went away after the EC but I still felt a nagging annoyance that nothing was added to the breath scene. So before the DLC came out and knowing that it wouldn't affect the ending, I thought the only thing that would make it all better would be if your LI mentioned something about always finding you in the end, never thinking it would actually happen. And then it did. Along with a whole bunch of other feedback. So I am very impressed.

[Subject M]

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Headcanon? From AdmiralCheez???

Srsly in that case, I'mma headcanon my team got away from the Reapers in refuse, and went in stasis pods to KICK THE REAPERS ASS in the next cycle. That Asari at the end's Grandma Liara.
No, really.  Shepard dies in the Control ending, remember?  So the thing controlling the Reapers CAN'T be Shepard, right?

Also, Control speech (paragon version):

"Eternal.  Infinite.  Immortal.  The woman I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them.  And only now do I understand the full extent of her sacrifice.  Through her death, I was created.  Through my birth, her thoughts were freed.  They guide me now, give me reason, direction.  Just as she gave direction to those who followed her, the ones who helped her achieve her purpose.  Now, my purpose.  To give the many hope for a future.  To ensure that all have a voice in their future.  The woman I was knew that she could only achieve this by becoming something greater.  There is power in control.  There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy.  I will rebuild what the many have lost.  I will create a future with limitless possibilities.  I will protect and sustain.  I will act as a guardian for the many.  And throughout it all, I will never forget.  I will remember the ones who sacrificed themselves so that the many could survive.  And I will watch over the ones that live on.  Those who carry the memory of the woman I once was.  The woman who gave up her life to become the one who could save the many."

I do not see how these prove that the new entity in the control ending is not Shepard. There are quite a few "The (wo)man I was..." which for me implies a sense of continuation.  As I see it, Shepard is still Shepard, but he has also become so much more.

I honestly think this is another case of Bioware being ambigious on purpose, you are free to interpretate this speech in whatever way you want, so feel free to disagree with me.

Also, on an unrelated note, Cheez.

I have said it hundred times before and I will say it again. One of the main problems with the endings is that we do not know what happened. The Shepalyst might be the same Shepard or it might not be, just as ME2 Shepard might not be ME1 Shepard, but a different consciousness referencing the same memory-bank.

For example, lets say for a moment that in the ME-universe, organic and synthetic life and conciousness are caused by and sustained by a certain quantum energy signature powered by electricity (with the difference mostly being in how this electricity is generated - organic tissue or non-organic and what frequency the "quantum field" operates in ) If so, "Destroy" might send out an energy-pulse that disrupt the quantum-fields of synthetics by scrambling that specific band of frequency.

In a similar way, "Control" might actually preserve Shepard mind by maintaining it through charged natines, electrical currents and mass effect fields, even as his body is destroyed and then give it a new physical host and support structure.

Whithout knowing what happened and how the mind works in the ME-universe, there is no way of knowing what really happened. Which of course is a problem, and why people gets angry at space magic.

[HooblaDGN]

Power corrupts. Even Reapers. Even Shep Reapers. I'd rather rid the world of that power forever, even if it means some sacrifice and sadness. The world has already lost much, and I do not want those losses to be in vain. Ending the Reapers with destroy takes that immense power out of the galaxy and leaves only the few remaining Leviathans as such powerful threats (which could easily be taken down), thus allowing my comrades and all future life, organic or synthetic, to live without the threat of Reaper violence.

[Jassu1979]

The Shepalist is a synthetic being, a digitized consciousness based on the memories and experiences of Commander Shepard, who dies in creating it.
Both the Shepalist and the Catalyst talk about how choosing control causes Shepard to "lose everything" - so yes, Shepard is dead, although there is a sense of continuity between Shepard and the Shepalyst. They are not the same person, but one of them's based on the other and devoted to honoring the memory of its deceased predecessor.

[AdmiralCheez]

Subject M wrote...

Whithout knowing what happened and how the mind works in the ME-universe, there is no way of knowing what really happened. Which of course is a problem, and why people gets angry at space magic.

What's really sad is that, most of the time, the mechanics of actual magic are explained better in fiction than ME3's ending shenanigans.

[Ryoten]

I shoot the pipe. No matter what.

[Clayless]

HooblaDGN wrote...

Power corrupts. Even Reapers. Even Shep Reapers. I'd rather rid the world of that power forever, even if it means some sacrifice and sadness. The world has already lost much, and I do not want those losses to be in vain. Ending the Reapers with destroy takes that immense power out of the galaxy and leaves only the few remaining Leviathans as such powerful threats (which could easily be taken down), thus allowing my comrades and all future life, organic or synthetic, to live without the threat of Reaper violence.

It actually appears that Leviathans are more, or just as much of a threat, as Reaper are to organics. Especially in a galaxy with no relays, meaning they're the only ones with galactic travel, or synthetics to be immune from their enthralling ability.

Modifié par Robosexual, 06 mars 2013 - 06:39 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Well, how many alterations can you make to the something before it stops being that thing?  Shepardlyst is an AI with Shepard's memories and motivations (kinda), right?  But what happens when you take a person's ideals and experiences, attach them to a program with a million times the processing power, then strip away all the squishy bits?  No biological juices = no emotions = no empathy or attachment (unless Shepardlyst has some sort of like/dislike feedback programming like EDI).

So really, when it comes right down to it, all you've done is given the Catalyst a new name and mandate.

I do not see why Shepard cannot create a like/dislike thingy like EDI did.

And the last statement seems rather crude, since retaining his memories, experiences and thoughts makes a huge difference between control!Shepard and the catalyst.

Apparently it is. All that is necessary for Javik to use his mojo on Femshep. is to have her not be in a relationship, have the party get wild enough and then the (space)magic happens.

That requires passing up both Garrus AND Traynor...

Hm.  Perhaps I'll just leave that little bit of sexual tension unresolved.

Such a viewpoint was considered treason in the empire, Cheez.. You should be reasonable and reconsider your stance.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 06 mars 2013 - 06:43 .

[Subject M]

Xerxes52 wrote...

KefkaGestahl wrote...

Shepard was on a mission to destroy the reapers. EDI knew that she could die in the process of doing that, and even changed her programming to allow for self-sacrifice. Given the circumstances, I think she would be fine if Shepard chose destroy. The fleet was being blown to bits and you're expected to believe what this pop-up tells you about the control and synthesis options. Hell, the geth might even understand why Shepard did what he did, especially if he always treated the geth with respect.

Pretty much this. My Shepard's goal has always been to destroy the Reapers. While he's a almost entirely a Paragon, he's still willing to make the sacrifices necessary to save the galaxy. It weighs heavily on him, but that's the burden of being a leader.

Shepard is/was on a mission to stop the Reapers form performing certain actions that makes them a problem. Its an important distinction, at least for a paragon who is more focused on saving people that killing the perpetrators regardless of their motivation.

[Subject M]

HooblaDGN wrote...

Power corrupts. Even Reapers. Even Shep Reapers. I'd rather rid the world of that power forever, even if it means some sacrifice and sadness. The world has already lost much, and I do not want those losses to be in vain. Ending the Reapers with destroy takes that immense power out of the galaxy and leaves only the few remaining Leviathans as such powerful threats (which could easily be taken down), thus allowing my comrades and all future life, organic or synthetic, to live without the threat of Reaper violence.

When people are talking about how power corrupt people, they are referring to how humans often reacts to power when they have it without any checks and balances to keep them in check and contact with the rest of a community. As such it might be a serious stretch to apply it to Shepard.

Also does that mean you would rally people against any higher power, if such a power was ever discovered or proven to exist?

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

I do not see why Shepard cannot create a like/dislike thingy like EDI did.

EDI was programmed with curiousity and a desire to grow and learn.  Maybe Shepardlyst has feelings, but they might be scrapped in favor of more efficient galactic management.

And the last statement seems rather crude, since retaining his memories, experiences and thoughts makes a huge difference between control!Shepard and the catalyst.

The Reapers contain the memories, experiences, and thoughts of the civilizations they were formed from.  Is it fair to call Harbinger a Leviathan?  Or Reaper X an Insuannon?

I admit my wording was crude, and it's not fair to say that the new Catalyst is the same as the old one, but we have no clear line as to where one identity becomes another.  UNINTENTIONAL PHILOSOPHICAL CONUNDRUM THANKS BIOWARE.

Such a viewpoint was considered treason in the empire, Cheez.. You should be reasonable and reconsider your stance.

After flowers and a nice dinner, maybe.

[Killdren88]

I don't care if EDI's curry is tasty. The Reapers are dead no matter what. There are many things I will over look, but eons of mass murder is not one of them.

Modifié par Killdren88, 06 mars 2013 - 07:01 .

[Jenonax]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@OP


And Joker? In the Synthesis ending we learn that Joker's condition has been cured, completely cured. He's able to walk for the first time, he's able to do anything that any healthy member of the crew can. Joker's angst about his situation always bothered me, and I always wished I could do something to help him. But there was nothing in modern medicine that could make him right. Synthesis allows Joker a permanent reprieve from his suffering, so for the first time he's truly able to enjoy life 

Nope still limping as usual.

[Infernal_Satan]

No one picks synthesis?

[Eterna]

Yes. My Shepard sacrifices herself to ensure that the flawed yet beautiful galaxy will remain as is and that she can protect the people she loves from harm forevermore.

/sigh and once again people assume Paragon control is the same as Renegade control.

There is no dictatorship or tyranny in paragon control. "I will ensure that all have a voice in their future" just reeks of Tyranny! :innocent:

Modifié par Eterna5, 06 mars 2013 - 07:04 .

[cerberus1701]

Infernal_Satan wrote...

No one picks synthesis?

Personally, I find it unpalatable because it's essentially a galactic rape.

I mean, one could improve humans by putting chips in their brains with the access to the sum of human knowledge. perfect memory, etc.

How would you feel if the cops came to your house and said, "Get one or die?"

Modifié par cerberus1701, 06 mars 2013 - 07:18 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I do not see why Shepard cannot create a like/dislike thingy like EDI did.

EDI was programmed with curiousity and a desire to grow and learn.  Maybe Shepardlyst has feelings, but they might be scrapped in favor of more efficient galactic management.

A fair point, but we really do not know.

And the last statement seems rather crude, since retaining his memories, experiences and thoughts makes a huge difference between control!Shepard and the catalyst.

The Reapers contain the memories, experiences, and thoughts of the civilizations they were formed from.  Is it fair to call Harbinger a Leviathan?  Or Reaper X an Insuannon?

I admit my wording was crude, and it's not fair to say that the new Catalyst is the same as the old one, but we have no clear line as to where one identity becomes another.  UNINTENTIONAL PHILOSOPHICAL CONUNDRUM THANKS BIOWARE.

No, I don't consider the Reapers to be  a"insert species here".

But in my defence, the catalyst and the Reapers are not the exact same thing, the catalyst after all came before the Reapers themselves. The Reapers are just people melted down into creating an obidient tool used by the catalyst while retaining the knowlegde they possed.

Such a viewpoint was considered treason in the empire, Cheez.. You should be reasonable and reconsider your stance.

After flowers and a nice dinner, maybe.

To make this subject more serious...

Doesn't Javik f"""ing Femshep contradict his character? Considering he strongly disaproves of inter-species relationships (or perhaps any relationship that cannot produce off-spring).

[CronoDragoon]

Lizardviking wrote...

Doesn't Javik f"""ing Femshep contradict his character? Considering he strongly disaproves of inter-species relationships (or perhaps any relationship that cannot produce off-spring).

Javik says a lot of things. We also know he likes Liara, and he likes Taaaali tooooooooo.

[Clayless]

Lizardviking wrote...

To make this subject more serious...

Doesn't Javik f"""ing Femshep contradict his character? Considering he strongly disaproves of inter-species relationships (or perhaps any relationship that cannot produce off-spring).

He doesn't strongly disaprove of it, he justs says mating between species is pointless, which is completely different.

[N7Keller]

You are changing the galaxy thought. There is now a new AI that is controlling the reapers. It is making sure to enforce Shepard's law on the galaxy,

[DextroDNA]

If the Mass Relays can be repaired, EDI can be repaired too.

The Geth, maybe not. But then, we pretend as if we're back in ME1 when everything was hunky-dory.

[Clayless]

RussianZombeh wrote...

If the Mass Relays can be repaired, EDI can be repaired too.

The Geth, maybe not. But then, we pretend as if we're back in ME1 when everything was hunky-dory.

Her memories and experiences are gone, like CloneShep it wouldn't be her, and like Grunt it wouldn't be her even with fake implanted memories.

[FlyinElk212]

norcalgamer wrote...

You are changing the galaxy thought. There is now a new AI that is controlling the reapers. It is making sure to enforce Shepard's law on the galaxy,

True, but you aren't changing the galaxy to the extent that Destroy and Synthesis are. PARTICULARLY w/ Paragon Control Shep.