348 réponses à ce sujet

[Subject M]

CptData wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Its not really that simple, but such qualities can indeed be associated with the different endings.
Destroy might guarantee Autonomy from the Reapers, but not from future synthetics or other external threats relative to some group that wants to self-determine. Control can be said to be a stabilizing factor just as any power-group such as a police force within a society can stabilize relations (a police force can either "protect and serve" the people and their interest as self determining people, or some elite telling people how to live. But as I have already pointed out, with control also comes the potential of synthesis, but under other other "ordered" forms.

... as long as AI!Shepard retains enough humanity to keep his/her role as a guardian. As soon as s/he starts to think about becoming a guardian!dictator or starting the cycle anew, your theory falls apart.

And given the fact Shepard went through more than just sh*t for in three years of his/her life (two of 'em dead), I -highly- doubt his/her neural pattern is a good basis for such AI.

Just saying.

Sure, autonomy isn't the best solution. But it's the best for organics. It's freedom, it's what most people want! Give up freedom for security and you don't deserve neither - that's what Benjamin Franklin said. And he was right.

Well, the problem of us not knowing what is really going on or being able to make choices is one of the main problems of the endings. I I was to role-play the Shepalyst, the first thing i would do was to learn from the mistakes of the Catalyst,who did not care for self-determination. In that regard, I think a "former organic like shepard, especially paragon shepard, would have much better chances than the catalyst" So, hardcore those values in your personality matrix Shepalyst, never forget where you came from and why!

When it comes to freedom and security, its not the dichotomy some people make it out to be by certain vulgar interpretations.  Benjamin Franklin was of course not against laws or societal structures that protected people against aggression and neither are you I suspect.

[CosmicGnosis]

Interesting. I've been waiting for the final DLC with the hope that it would provide me with just enough ending-choice information to finally nudge me towards a canon ending. It sounds like it doesn't do that, so I have no new information to work with. Perhaps the only thing that will influence me is the memory of the characters.

[FlyinElk212]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Interesting. I've been waiting for the final DLC with the hope that it would provide me with just enough ending-choice information to finally nudge me towards a canon ending. It sounds like it doesn't do that, so I have no new information to work with. Perhaps the only thing that will influence me is the memory of the characters.

Yes, this DLC seems to inadvertantly nudge players towards a choice other than Synthesis, at the very least.

[CptData]

Subject M wrote...

Well, the problem of us not knowing what is really going on or being able to make choices is one of the main problems of the endings. I I was to role-play the Shepalyst, the first thing i would do was to learn from the mistakes of the Catalyst,who did not care for self-determination. In that regard, I think a "former organic like shepard, especially paragon shepard, would have much better chances than the catalyst" So, hardcore those values in your personality matrix Shepalyst, never forget where you came from and why!

Propably. But it's like taking the RED or the BLUE pill: do you really know what's going to happen?
Thing is: I know how and who am I today. But I can't tell anyone, not even myself, if I'm going to be the same in future.

Also AIs develop. Actually, that's the very core feature of any AI - they develop. They don't stay at the point they have just after booting them up. Means: Shepard!AI develops. And I'm pretty sure s/he's as unshackled as EDI. S/he can go down the paragon path once more - or do something entirely different. Which comes back to the point I said before: I can't tell you how and who I'll be in five years. And Shepard can't say that for him/herself as well.

When it comes to freedom and security, its not the dichotomy some people make it out to be by certain vulgar interpretations.  Benjamin Franklin was of course not against laws or societal structures that protected people against aggression and neither are you I suspect.

The current state of the world implies I'm damn right.

Sorry to say that.

Modifié par CptData, 06 mars 2013 - 10:45 .

[visionazzery]

Actually this dlc SHOULD nudge you to one ending the Mehem mod. A pointless thread. Shepard choosing control for clear majority of people on the forums is academic it a nonsense, no logic why would Shepard adapt the form of his enemy? Screw this thread conspiracy theories and artsy Farrah philosophy ....Shepard destroys black and white. It just imagination gone wild that this dlc recasts the ending debate. Shock horror it does not.

[Epsilon330]

Or you could choose MEHEM. EDI, Shep and Glyph survive, the Geth survive, and no more Reapers!
Of course, the apartment could be a bit singed though...

[Funkdrspot]

if this was real life and I wasn't capable of metagaming, id pick destroy 100/100
If I WAS capable of seeing that the leader of the deceptive and manipulative enemy was able to be trusted BEFORE I had to make a decision that would affect a trillion lives and 100s of trillions later, I would pick control.

[I_Jedi]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Because there's no way in hell I'm changing the galaxy . Over my dead body after seeing this DLC.

I've totally fallen in love with my little family I've created. The squadmates of past and future have combine to create some of the tightest friend units I have ever seen. Not only do they prove that this galaxy is worth saving as it is, but the comradery and cooperation of different races proves that there IS hope for this version of the galaxy's future, with little to no Reaper influence along the way.

Destroy's no option. After Citadel DLC, EDI's proven synthetics deserve better.
Synthesis's no option. After Citadel DLC, I can't alter galactic status quo when this one can prove to be civil and stable.
And don't even get me started on Refuse.

So I used to be an avid Destroy fan. But after seeing this DLC, I don't think I'll ever choose anything other than Control. If sacrificing my life means I'll be able to keep this version of the galaxy in tact, then my sacrifice will be worth it. If not for the galaxy, then for my little family I've created.

Or, OP, you can just take Mr. Fob's MEHEM option.

[Funkdrspot]

Epsilon330 wrote...

Or you could choose MEHEM. EDI, Shep and Glyph survive, the Geth survive, and no more Reapers!
Of course, the apartment could be a bit singed though...

are people that emotionally immature that they cant accept loss of life in a fictional work of art?

[nevar00]

^ "Art" is a very subjective term...

It already was for me.  It made no sense to destroy an entire race (assuming the geth are still alive) if there was another option in control, and besides why not just fly them into the sun first chance you get?  And Synthesis has too much space magic and speculations for my liking. 

To the "well if this was real life" crowd, well if this was real life I doubt we'd expend so many resources and whatnot on a weapon that pops out of nowhere and that we have little idea how it works or what exactly it does as opposed to alternatives, nevermind believing the little Hitler computer program who just told you to pick a color and you'll stop the Reapers by giving up your own life spiel and going along with that.  So I'm sticking with Control regardless (if not Refuse).

Modifié par nevar00, 06 mars 2013 - 11:03 .

[Epsilon330]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Epsilon330 wrote...

Or you could choose MEHEM. EDI, Shep and Glyph survive, the Geth survive, and no more Reapers!
Of course, the apartment could be a bit singed though...

are people that emotionally immature that they cant accept loss of life in a fictional work of art?

I never said I chose MEHEM. I'm actually a Controller/Destroyer.
I just recommended it as it seemed the optimal ending for the points in the OP.

Modifié par Epsilon330, 06 mars 2013 - 11:06 .

[Lisa_H]

Even if one of the reasons I like destroy best is that there is once for my Shepard to live I don't see it as selfish. In my mind it is the only secure way of getting rid of the reapers forever. yes, it sad about the geth and EDI. But it is best because if finally frees the galaxy from the reapers

[TheRealJayDee]

Auld Wulf wrote...


And Joker? In the Synthesis ending we learn that Joker's condition has been cured, completely cured. He's able to walk for the first time, he's able to do anything that any healthy member of the crew can.

[TheRealJayDee]

woops, double post

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 06 mars 2013 - 11:50 .

[k8ee]

Still picking destroy.

Don't want to kill EDI or the geth, but the fact that they are fighting by my side at the end says they are willing to lay down their lives to destroy the reapers. I set out to destroy the reapers, and that's what I'll do. If I don't I better be dead because I wouldn't be able to look anyone in the eye after.

The reapers are too powerful a force to unleash on the galaxy (IMO) and even with Shep's karma juices... or whatever you want to call it, powering them, it's still a dictatorship. And how long can anyone or anything have total control while being completely removed from the lives and experiences of those they control? A thousand years? Ten thousand years? A hundred thousand years? The road to hell is paved with good intentions... and all that jazz.

And synthesis, well... aside from how unnatural it seems, how is galactic homogenization supposed to foster peace? If a reaper want to kick the hell out of a species because they dumped 500 million unsold copies of Blasto 6 in their nebula bed, they'll go right ahead.

Any way you slice it, the reapers in any form have such a huge advantage over every other galactic race they could do whatever they want. It's just not worth the risk.

That being said, I support all player choices, whatever they may be. Right or wrong, this is all just my own interpretation.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

There's uh, you know, always MEHEM.

[Kunari801]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Hmm... still a destroyer, myself. Everyone gets a different takeaway.

^^^^^  But I respect the OP for his opinion but I tought Citadel made Destroy even better, my Shepard has a home to return to after he recovers and marries his LI.  Besides, it's up to each player to decide if the Geth and EDI can't be repaired too.  In mine, they do. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 07 mars 2013 - 12:19 .

[atheelogos]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Interesting. I've been waiting for the final DLC with the hope that it would provide me with just enough ending-choice information to finally nudge me towards a canon ending. It sounds like it doesn't do that, so I have no new information to work with. Perhaps the only thing that will influence me is the memory of the characters.

I admit I'm a die hard synthesis fan, but control is looking more and more attractive to me. In part because I wouldn't choose synthesis in real life, but more so because I hate the fact of shep dying after seeing everyone together in that photo.  At least in control shep lives and could download a part of his mind into an android body if he wanted..... Wishfull thinking?.... lol I don't care 

Modifié par atheelogos, 07 mars 2013 - 01:47 .

[Drewton]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Destroy's no option. After Citadel DLC, EDI's proven synthetics deserve better.

"It’s something turians are taught from birth- If just one survivor is left standing at the end of a war, then the fight was worth it. But humans want to save everyone. In this war, that’s not going to happen." - Garrus

[christrek1982]

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I do not see why Shepard cannot create a like/dislike thingy like EDI did.

EDI was programmed with curiousity and a desire to grow and learn.  Maybe Shepardlyst has feelings, but they might be scrapped in favor of more efficient galactic management.

A fair point, but we really do not know.

And the last statement seems rather crude, since retaining his memories, experiences and thoughts makes a huge difference between control!Shepard and the catalyst.

The Reapers contain the memories, experiences, and thoughts of the civilizations they were formed from.  Is it fair to call Harbinger a Leviathan?  Or Reaper X an Insuannon?

I admit my wording was crude, and it's not fair to say that the new Catalyst is the same as the old one, but we have no clear line as to where one identity becomes another.  UNINTENTIONAL PHILOSOPHICAL CONUNDRUM THANKS BIOWARE.

No, I don't consider the Reapers to be  a"insert species here".

But in my defence, the catalyst and the Reapers are not the exact same thing, the catalyst after all came before the Reapers themselves. The Reapers are just people melted down into creating an obidient tool used by the catalyst while retaining the knowlegde they possed.

Such a viewpoint was considered treason in the empire, Cheez.. You should be reasonable and reconsider your stance.

After flowers and a nice dinner, maybe.

To make this subject more serious...

Doesn't Javik f"""ing Femshep contradict his character? Considering he strongly disaproves of inter-species relationships (or perhaps any relationship that cannot produce off-spring).

humm he didn't seem to have a problem with my femshep Liara when he asked.

[Dendio1]

Having the reapers police the galaxy changes it as well.

[FlyinElk212]

Drewton wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Destroy's no option. After Citadel DLC, EDI's proven synthetics deserve better.

"It’s something turians are taught from birth- If just one survivor is left standing at the end of a war, then the fight was worth it. But humans want to save everyone. In this war, that’s not going to happen." - Garrus

No one's arguing that. Give me a choice b/w one person and an entire race though, and I'll take that one person every time.

[mereck7980]

k8ee wrote...

The reapers are too powerful a force to unleash on the galaxy (IMO) and even with Shep's karma juices... or whatever you want to call it, powering them, it's still a dictatorship. And how long can anyone or anything have total control while being completely removed from the lives and experiences of those they control? A thousand years? Ten thousand years? A hundred thousand years? The road to hell is paved with good intentions... and all that jazz.

 

I think this is the crux of the matter.  The Reapers are a destablilzing element even if they are "controlled" by Shepard.  The only safe thing, for the future of all life in the galaxy, is to remove them from the equation.  Even if the cost of that is the loss of EDI and the Geth.  

Hell, if it makes you feel better OP just head cannon a situation (like MEHEM) where EDI doesn't die.  Any end game scenario that includes the Reapers is fraught with peril and should be avoided at all costs....IMHO