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Let's make a prediction: AIU/Repair Matrix NERF for next week, a goodbye to the iWin character..


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#251
killdozer9211

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Original Stikman wrote...

killdozer9211 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

killdozer9211 wrote...

Repair matrix has a bad habit of not working and has to be activated at the right time.

Meanwhile vorcha constantly regenerate health and volus can give themselves shield gate constantly.
Somehow no one ever makes posts about how unfair it is to have unlimited ops packs.

RM is only different because getting up from being down is somehow seemingly a more drastic change in state as opposed to recovering shieldgate with a 2 second recharge or refilling your health from a few seconds of taking cover.

Anyone who thinks there's a difference is an easily impressed simpleton.


Wrong.

Vorcha health regen doesn't help once you are health gated; next attack kills you regardless of regen.

Shield boost gives invincibility frames on host reliably, off-host you RARELY get the invincibility frames. Shield boost does NOT reset the cooldown of shield gate, is heavily affected by lag (delayed cast, no I-Frames).

Volus do not have 80% damage TC, 25% shotgun damage and the SF debuff though, do they? They also do not gain the passives the AIU has.

The difference is, the vorcha and the volus require smart play and hosting to perform exceptionally and in both cases neither have the damage ouput that the AIU has, and only the volus have comparable survivability (while on host only).

The AIU has Insane damage, and survivability, with no drawback whatsoever. The AIU doesn't need to take cover; as dying is not an issue whatsoever. Dying IS an isue with the 2 other examples you mentioned.

As for the last part: "I'm going to insult anyone who disagrees, or has empirical evidence to prove my argument falacious"; proves how little in the way of a meaningful contribution you have to make.

It's getting nerfed, stop crying. If you're good enough a player, you don't need repair matrix (or stim packs, or the kroguard) to babysit you through a gold game.


*snip*


I know you are trying dude, but you just compared the vorch hunter to the AIU in terms of damage output which completely destroys any sort of credibility.

Some of your arguments have potential they are just misguided and you are bringing analogies to the wrong aspects of the character....

In summary: your evidence doesn't support your overall point.



The point was, in terms of %'s, AIU doesn't get any unreasonable bonuses that two underused characters don't, especially not ones so drastic that the only way to balance them out would be to re-krysae her one new power and turn her into some sort of ungodly drell/human infiltrator combo.

#252
Cyonan

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killdozer9211 wrote...

A volus adept can put out 45% exexpose over a 3 meter radius instantaneously with biotic orbs, stacked with the expose from stasis, an extra 50%, bringing him up to a 95% damage increase. Spec his passive for weapons damage and he gets 22.5 extra weapon damage, so all together, that's about 117.5% damage boost to whatever weapon he might be using, compared to the 130% weapon damage increase of TC + shotgun + weap passive for the AIU? (We'll assume this is an unarmored taget if you want to bring in SF debuff, otherwise I'll begrudgingly cede you that, it's a miniscule point, not every enemy in the game is armored.) Plus the shield boost hands out invincibility frames when used under controllable circumstances, and meanwhile, repair matrix doesn't even revive reliably?

So she can dish out a staggering 12.5% extra damage than a volus? Oh, that hardly seems fair. /sarcasm.

Meanwhile, rolly-polly-volly over there fits nicely behind most cover, doesn't need an ammo box to refill his healing ability, and his two melee abilities that are much more useful than the AIU's melee's on either gold or plat. Not only that, but on the occassion that he does somehow manage to go down, because his ability affects him and allies in the same cast, someone can instantly get him up without fear because they've been getting invicibility frames and shields restored constantly.

If the AIU is an "I win" Button, the Volus is a  "We Win." Button. 

So why don't you cry for a nerf to shield boost while we're at it?

Now let's look at the vorcha.

Vorcha regen is a passive, so you're always regenerating health, meaning if you're staying in cover like a good AIU, you don't have to pay as much attention to when to turn on your regen ability, you just have to take a break from firing and you're back to full health after a few seconds.

Not only this, but any kills scored while using this power can give you up to a 15% weapon or power damage boost, something neither repair matrix or shield boost offers. While not as signifigant as the debuff from the volus adept, or the damage buff with the AIU, it can still mean as much as a 42.5% weapon damage buff when combined with his passive. So he loses signifigant damage bonuses the other two get, but he makes up for it by having a regen power he only has to turn on once per game. An alternative to this build though includes a power damage build, in which his flamer can have as much as a 50% damage boost and another 50% damage towards armor, still not as much a boost as either the AIU or Volus, but more DPS than either could put out under thetime alotted for their debuffs/buff.

The vorcha engineer, meanwhile, gets a 50% power damage bonus from his passive, in addition to the 50% extra DOT from incinerate, along with either the extra 100% damage to a frozen or chilled target from, say, cryo ammo, or 50% damage to an armored target, for comparison to the AIU vs Snap Freeze targets, which would only be debuffed if they were armored, and even then, only by 25%.

So there you have it. Three kits, each with comparable survivability and comparable damage output. No one is any more superior to the other two. AIU is fine.


There's quite a few problems here:

> Biotic Orbs has a very long cooldown compared to TC
> Stasis is the least reliable damage increase in the game and doesn't work on armoured targets where you need it most.
> You aren't adding modifiers together properly(many of the listed ones are multiplicative)
> Vorcha Hunter doesn't have 50% power damage from passive
> Claiming that the Vorcha Hunter's damage output is anywhere in the same galaxy as the AIU's pretty much takes away any credibility you might have had. It'd be like me saying that a Drell has comparable effective health to a Geth Juggernaut.

#253
Pavs719

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well we will see what bioware (makers of the game) has to say not OP.

#254
RedJohn

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E71 wrote...

RedJohn wrote...
...
Also, yes I love this character :D


No you don't... otherwise you would have kept your mouth shut.



Sorry man but I think that would be blind.

Love something and being blind about it are two different things.

#255
Original Twigman

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stormrider1012 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

2. I addressed those minutea details in the last half of that post and don't really feel like addressing them again as I have. If you were to take away the instant revive of RM, then the meta-game impact would be less of an issue (i believe)... so its not fundamental to the stance

3. you did the same thing redjohn did and that is to misread/misinterpret what i wrote.

unlimited revives = / = mission accomplished... I didn't say anything about being OP and extracting. The statement should be taken literally. Giving a player unlimited revives on any character doesn't guarantee they will extract. This is more of a rebuttal to the "i win" argument. In order to "win" you actualyl have to extract, and revivng, while helpful, does not guarantee that


Well I don't exactly agree on the "I Win" argument as well but the point still applies. Are you saying we should only consider a power for tweaking if it guarantees extraction?

But you seem to be just focusing on the RM insta-revive as point of argument. The AIU skillset is not just the RM. Its the entire collection of her advantages (excellent survivability + infiltrator damage output) which I think is causing the issue. The RM just takes most of the heat probably because its her signature power. If this power was given to say, an engineer instead, I doubt the OP calls would be so loud.


1. No, i am not saying that. I didn't suggest it either. Its to be taken literal as a rebuttal, not a counter claim for anything outside of meta-game impact. I am not implying anything or subliminally saying anything with the statement.

2. those are valid points, and they can be looked at and discussed. The only issue comes back to point 1. Is it game-breaking by definition (i.e. single feature being overused/dominating meta-game)?... the answer is still no (at this point in time). So there is no real reason to address those things as "OP" unless it is game-breaking.

#256
Sharkey00

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RedJohn wrote...


What I would like to know is how this nerf, whatever it may be, will improve the overall game experience; not for you but the community?

Also, aren't there other kits/weapons that could be nerfed/buffed that could improve the game even more than this one?

#257
Original Twigman

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killdozer9211 wrote...



The point was, in terms of %'s, AIU doesn't get any unreasonable bonuses that two underused characters don't, especially not ones so drastic that the only way to balance them out would be to re-krysae her one new power and turn her into some sort of ungodly drell/human infiltrator combo.


I didn't read Cyonan's response, but im sure he picked apart the argument. You can support the general point with valid evidence, just not with the evidence you provided.

#258
stormrider1012

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Original Stikman wrote...

stormrider1012 wrote...

Well I don't exactly agree on the "I Win" argument as well but the point still applies. Are you saying we should only consider a power for tweaking if it guarantees extraction?

But you seem to be just focusing on the RM insta-revive as point of argument. The AIU skillset is not just the RM. Its the entire collection of her advantages (excellent survivability + infiltrator damage output) which I think is causing the issue. The RM just takes most of the heat probably because its her signature power. If this power was given to say, an engineer instead, I doubt the OP calls would be so loud.


1. No, i am not saying that. I didn't suggest it either. Its to be taken literal as a rebuttal, not a counter claim for anything outside of meta-game impact. I am not implying anything or subliminally saying anything with the statement.

2. those are valid points, and they can be looked at and discussed. The only issue comes back to point 1. Is it game-breaking by definition (i.e. single feature being overused/dominating meta-game)?... the answer is still no (at this point in time). So there is no real reason to address those things as "OP" unleor ss it is game-breaking.


Fair enough. Either way, a nerf is coming. For this one, let's just see if Bioware brought Mordin's scalpel or Wrex's baseball bat.

Modifié par stormrider1012, 07 mars 2013 - 01:53 .


#259
Original Twigman

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stormrider1012 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

stormrider1012 wrote...

Well I don't exactly agree on the "I Win" argument as well but the point still applies. Are you saying we should only consider a power for tweaking if it guarantees extraction?

But you seem to be just focusing on the RM insta-revive as point of argument. The AIU skillset is not just the RM. Its the entire collection of her advantages (excellent survivability + infiltrator damage output) which I think is causing the issue. The RM just takes most of the heat probably because its her signature power. If this power was given to say, an engineer instead, I doubt the OP calls would be so loud.


1. No, i am not saying that. I didn't suggest it either. Its to be taken literal as a rebuttal, not a counter claim for anything outside of meta-game impact. I am not implying anything or subliminally saying anything with the statement.

2. those are valid points, and they can be looked at and discussed. The only issue comes back to point 1. Is it game-breaking by definition (i.e. single feature being overused/dominating meta-game)?... the answer is still no (at this point in time). So there is no real reason to address those things as "OP" unleor ss it is game-breaking.


Fair enough. Either way, a nerf is coming. For this one, let's just see if Bioware brought Mordin's scalpel or Wrex's baseball bat.


If they bring a bat it will be signed by RedJohn, Feneckus (who has never even played the class), Heri, and Draining Dragon

Modifié par Original Stikman, 07 mars 2013 - 01:56 .


#260
Zjarcal

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Here's my prediction...

IDGAF

#261
XPERIA_Z

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Zjarcal wrote...

Here's my prediction...

IDGAF



#262
capn233

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I have several predictions:

1. The change to Repair Matrix will not be substantial, in that it will not drastically alter the usefulness.
2. Many people will say that the character is completely ruined because of it, and some will threaten to stop playing the AIU or ME3 altogether.
3. Several people will act completely smug, and say that everyone who used to play AIU will now be punished for not being elite enough to "play a real class" like they do.
4. Many useless threads will be created by the two parties described in 2 and 3.

#263
Cyonan

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Original Stikman wrote...

killdozer9211 wrote...



The point was, in terms of %'s, AIU doesn't get any unreasonable bonuses that two underused characters don't, especially not ones so drastic that the only way to balance them out would be to re-krysae her one new power and turn her into some sort of ungodly drell/human infiltrator combo.


I didn't read Cyonan's response, but im sure he picked apart the argument. You can support the general point with valid evidence, just not with the evidence you provided.


Yeah, the only worse character that could have been picked would be Volus Sentinel.

Vorcha Sentinel makes a much better argument since Flamer + Acolyte/Reegar can put out some really solid damage, and Cluster Grenades are just amazing.

For Volus the Engineer probably has the best damage with Recon Mine(or maybe a Claymore Vanguard), but in this case the Drell Assassin does that better. Volus aren't really meant to be high damage dealers, though. Since Shield Boost is an AoE, their support is top notch.

It's also near impossible to Krysae Repair Matrix since no matter what it will still revive you. They can't actually remove that in a weekly balance change since it's hardcoded into the ability.

Modifié par Cyonan, 07 mars 2013 - 02:02 .


#264
Commander Castillo

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Alright I'll just go ahead and say it.
REDJOHN GET A ******* LIFE

#265
OniAngel

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Still a lot of talk about this character that I have not been seeing much and the times I do see them they are easily out scored. Does not seem to be as iwin for bad PuGs.

#266
Pavs719

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I don't think OP will be satisfied until multiplayer is completly nerfed, who gives him the right to speak for everyone, nobody, he should sit in the corner be quiet and stop causing all this agro.

#267
Jay_Hoxtatron

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1almond wrote...
Blah


Your avatar is the best thing in this thread.


capn233 wrote...

I have several predictions:

1. The change to Repair Matrix will not be substantial, in that it will not drastically alter the usefulness.
2. Many people will say that the character is completely ruined because of it, and some will threaten to stop playing the AIU or ME3 altogether.
3. Several people will act completely smug, and say that everyone who used to play AIU will now be punished for not being elite enough to "play a real class" like they do.
4. Many useless threads will be created by the two parties described in 2 and 3.


We all know that the AIU will still be great after the eventual nerf, even if Repair Matrix is Krysaed.

Tactical Cloak w/ special bonus damage for shotguns+ Snap Freeze every 3 seconds. 

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 07 mars 2013 - 02:09 .


#268
Pavs719

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Commander Castillo wrote...

Alright I'll just go ahead and say it.
REDJOHN GET A ******* LIFE


I could not have said it any better, he gets my back up, causing all this crap on the forums. 

Modifié par Pavs719, 07 mars 2013 - 02:11 .


#269
krknight

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Knockingbr4in wrote...

Nerf it into the ground Krysae style. There's just no point to Fitness as of right now.


if RM is the only thing they're touching, there's no way they'd be able to nerf her into the ground.  even specced out of RM, she's still good.

#270
xtorma

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Pavs719 wrote...

I don't think OP will be satisfied until multiplayer is completly nerfed, who gives him the right to speak for everyone, nobody, he should sit in the corner be quiet and stop causing all this agro.


I have played with RJ before. He is a nice guy. To me, in this thread, he is just a nice guy with an opinion.

whether I agree with him or not does not change the fact that he is a good member of the community.

#271
Xain88

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Just nerf everything out of repair matrix except movement speed and a very slow shield regen, that way she will just be like a phantom, healing while invisible...do it!!!

P.s i really love this character too

#272
USIncorp0

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Pavs719 wrote...

Commander Castillo wrote...

Alright I'll just go ahead and say it.
REDJOHN GET A ******* LIFE


I could not have said it any better, he gets my back up, causing all this crap on the forums. 


People here are trying to have a serious discussion.
If you don't agree with what the OP is saying, or what the other people are saying...
Please leave.

#273
Pavs719

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xtorma wrote...

Pavs719 wrote...

I don't think OP will be satisfied until multiplayer is completly nerfed, who gives him the right to speak for everyone, nobody, he should sit in the corner be quiet and stop causing all this agro.


I have played with RJ before. He is a nice guy. To me, in this thread, he is just a nice guy with an opinion.

whether I agree with him or not does not change the fact that he is a good member of the community.


yeah and so have I, but opinion or not, he is causing a lot of hate/crap etc, im sick to high end of toss pots asking for this and that and completly screwing multiplayer completly.

#274
Xain88

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No matter how slow the sheild regen will be, the way this power works is that it also constantly brings shield gate back up...bioware should look into fixing that as well.

#275
Pavs719

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USIncorp0 wrote...

Pavs719 wrote...

Commander Castillo wrote...

Alright I'll just go ahead and say it.
REDJOHN GET A ******* LIFE


I could not have said it any better, he gets my back up, causing all this crap on the forums. 


People here are trying to have a serious discussion.
If you don't agree with what the OP is saying, or what the other people are saying...
Please leave.


Wont say it but go to hell mate, I can voice my opinion here to yeah.