209 réponses à ce sujet

[Archonsg]

Sabriana wrote...

SuperMedbh wrote...

And killing them made me feel better. But not all better. Shianni's shade in the gauntlet helped, and seeing her proudly defending the Alienage helped even more. She was wounded, but not broken.

Bioware had the courage to take on a very harsh subject, and treated it with unflinching candor and respect. It wasn't some cheap "get the hero mad so they can kick butt" scene, but something that profoundly affected the characters, both the MC and NPCs.

I can't remember the last time I've been so moved by a fictional scene in any medium: videogame, movie or book.

Agreed. But I think she was broken in a sense, however, she healed because she had to. I love the character of Shianni, and I am glad she bounced back like that. Having to live in the alienage is simply horrid. Shianni is one of my favorite characters, even though I still have to play my city-elf all the way though.

Agreed. I wished she was recruitable (only if they made her accessible earlier on) and perhaps a romance option. But that might be my id speaking.

[GmanFresh]

the best part of that origin was tossing a knife in to that guys throat

[Tae Jir]

FireDragon076 wrote...

So wait, you wanted to see a gratitious rape scene? Congrats I now dub you the creepiest person on this board. Congrats!

Achievement Unlocked - Douchetacular Statement

Without a quote or a name, it's impossible to know who FireDragon076 is talking about, but just in case the anger is directed at me as the OP, all I can say is that it takes an incredible misread of my post to get to this judgement.

I wanna thank Creature 1 and many of the other women and men who point out something I can't believe I never thought of (since I consider myself pro-feminist and somewhat aware) regarding this game design choice. Women play games too, and this is an issue with huge emotional impact.

Duh.

Yes, I'll say it again: duh.

And I couldn't agree more about the voice acting: brilliant throughout, but stellar in this scene with Shianni. I killed the bugger like a dog. Was only sorry I couldn't do it again.

I also wanted to thank Shavon for replying to the second question I posed, and supplying the instance of fading to black when it appears you kick Dog awake in the Fade. Any other instances?

[SarEnyaDor]

When Isolde kills Connor you see her pull the knife and then it cuts to the PC and party outside leaning against the stone wall and then Isolde comes out and says it's done....

[AntiChri5]

Rape is such a sensitive issue it is easy to see why Bioware opted for the "less is more" approach and i have no idea what i would have done if it were my call. For about half of this thread i have really only been playing Devils Advocate to make sure i made my point. The depiction of big issues in adult games is something i am very glad of, especially when it leads to an interesting debate. I would like to thank those with the courage to share the stories of themselves or loved ones, it brought a bit more reality into what was a discussion of a concept.

[Arinosmirc]

FireDragon076 wrote...

So wait, you wanted to see a gratitious rape scene? Congrats I now dub you the creepiest person on this board. Congrats!

Achievement Unlocked - Douchetacular Statement

Entirely uncalled for, because no one said that. Noone is asking for a full blown rape scene.

All that's being suggested is that maybe there could be some more obvious cues. There have been some individuals who didn't necessary 'click' to what happened, or suspected but were not sure until meeting the king when you get the option to actually state that it was in fact rape.

Two entirely different things, I assure you. Being a rather pivotal moment of that origin, I would say it's rather important that the information is assertively delivered at that very moment.

[Gold Dragon]

I Might have added in a statement right at the begining of the forced Conversation with Vaughan stating that you notice Shianni adjusting her clothing, and there are bruises on her wrist.


Personally, I found myself wishing for an alternative "punishment" than outright death.  One I might have left Shianni and the others behind over:  Cutting off his (and the other two men's) manhood.:devil:

After all, without that part....  It just wouldn't be enjoyable.  That offer would have started the fight, too.....

[Zenon]

Arinosmirc wrote...

FireDragon076 wrote...

So wait, you wanted to see a gratitious rape scene? Congrats I now dub you the creepiest person on this board. Congrats!

Achievement Unlocked - Douchetacular Statement

Entirely uncalled for, because no one said that. Noone is asking for a full blown rape scene.

All that's being suggested is that maybe there could be some more obvious cues. There have been some individuals who didn't necessary 'click' to what happened, or suspected but were not sure until meeting the king when you get the option to actually state that it was in fact rape.

Two entirely different things, I assure you. Being a rather pivotal moment of that origin, I would say it's rather important that the information is assertively delivered at that very moment.

After reading this thread and thinking myself about the origin and how the story is presented I also think that Bioware left a slight ambiguity in the scene (edit) on purpose(/edit). It was good enough for me to realize, Shianni had been deeply hurt.

Modifié par Zenon, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:40 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

AdorableAnarchist wrote...

Exactly. I staffed a rape hotline for a good long while and could tell stories of women who were raped that, when I took them for medical help, did not look as though anything had happened -- until you looked in their eyes.

True, but:

1. Shiani stikes me as a type who will fight back feriociously
2. Vaughn strikes me as a tpye who is brutal and prone to needles violence

Anyway, I don't "need" anything and I'd appreaciate if if you don't imply it like I'm some kind of perv that gets off on this.

[Zenon]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

I Might have added in a statement right at the begining of the forced Conversation with Vaughan stating that you notice Shianni adjusting her clothing, and there are bruises on her wrist.


Personally, I found myself wishing for an alternative "punishment" than outright death.  One I might have left Shianni and the others behind over:  Cutting off his (and the other two men's) manhood.:devil:

After all, without that part....  It just wouldn't be enjoyable.  That offer would have started the fight, too.....

I think, showing some brutal punishment or even pointing to it through verbally expressing such acts would be detrimental to the game as a whole. Like the whole rape subject, I'd say any kind of graphic display of torture or brutal execution is also a touchy subject. The only thing I could imagine would be, if you are given the choice to say: "You guys go home... I'll return soon after a private conversation with this bastard." And perhaps later answering to a question on where I'd been: "I killed the son of the arl. And it was not nice."

[Lotion Soronarr]

Shavon wrote...
 If the scene was depicted more detailed, massacring Lord Vaugh would have been more fun, the ****.

I am wondering just how many different animations for killing there are in-game. Methinks I'm gonna try them all  on Vaughn. He dies too fast. Thatis something that definately needs correcting!

Hmm..I may alos add the option of making him a GW. The Blight above all, right?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 janvier 2010 - 07:38 .

[AdorableAnarchist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AdorableAnarchist wrote...

Exactly. I staffed a rape hotline for a good long while and could tell stories of women who were raped that, when I took them for medical help, did not look as though anything had happened -- until you looked in their eyes.

True, but:

1. Shiani stikes me as a type who will fight back feriociously
2. Vaughn strikes me as a tpye who is brutal and prone to needles violence

Anyway, I don't "need" anything and I'd appreaciate if if you don't imply it like I'm some kind of perv that gets off on this.

I wasn't implying anything of the sort. I'm sorry you took that away from statement of a personal experience in dealing with rape trauma victims.

[Lotion Soronarr]

No harm intended, no harm done. I might have misunderstood your post.

[Sabriana]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hmm..I may alos add the option of making him a GW. The Blight above all, right?

Vaughn makes a poor candidate because he's utterly selfish to begin with. He is also a cringing coward if forced to stand up for himself. He's nothing unless he has his cronies and his guards at his back.

[AntiChri5]

Sabriana wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hmm..I may alos add the option of making him a GW. The Blight above all, right?

Vaughn makes a poor candidate because he's utterly selfish to begin with. He is also a cringing coward if forced to stand up for himself. He's nothing unless he has his cronies and his guards at his back.

He is nothing even then. I have met possums that are closer to Grey warden material than Vaughn iis.

[AdorableAnarchist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No harm intended, no harm done. I might have misunderstood your post.

I tend only to call people I know pervs

Hmm, what does that say about my friends, I wonder.....

[mousestalker]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hmm..I may alos add the option of making him a GW. The Blight above all, right?

Vaughn makes a poor candidate because he's utterly selfish to begin with. He is also a cringing coward if forced to stand up for himself. He's nothing unless he has his cronies and his guards at his back.

He is nothing even then. I have met possums that are closer to Grey warden material than Vaughn iis.

Even more about Vaughan: He is the son of the Arl of Denerim. He is quite a big wheel in the capitol city of Ferelden. And he has to go kidnap and rape elven women to gratify himself? 

If he had any decency, he would have to carry a club to fight women throwing themselves at him (think dwarven noble hunters). He could have all the sex he wants, all the relationships he wants. He could have multiple relationships. He really could have whatever he wants. And what he wants is to go to the Alienage, grab women from the lowest strata of society and force them to couple with him.

And he can't do it by himself. The first time he has two wing men. The second time, he has his two cronies and a troop of fully armed guards.

Texas used to have a legal defense to murder that the victim 'needed killing'. They were thinking of creatures like Vaughan.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Aparently, the GW's take all kinds of murders and cowards...so Vaughn wouldn't be an exception.



If it's OK to take in Loghain, then it's OK to take in Vaughn. After all, L torture,d killed and betrayed thousands. What's that compared to Vaughns crimes?

[ReubenLiew]

Murderers but not cowards. At least not revealed as cowards until submitted to the Taint.

So long as they prove themselves with skill at arms and reasonably courageous they are a viable candidate for the Grey Wardens, and they only pick the best out of the bunch.

Vaughan could barely fight off an elf girl and her cousin, with 2 other guys with him.

[Cybercat999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Aparently, the GW's take all kinds of murders and cowards...so Vaughn wouldn't be an exception.

If it's OK to take in Loghain, then it's OK to take in Vaughn. After all, L torture,d killed and betrayed thousands. What's that compared to Vaughns crimes?

Loghain wasnt a coward.

Edited to say: gosh I hate when someone beats me to it

Modifié par Cybercat999, 14 janvier 2010 - 01:56 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

How do you explain Jory then?



Just because you killed Vaughn doesn't mean he is a bad fighter. After all, you can defeat Loghain - that makes him a poor fighter then!

[SarEnyaDor]

I'm ignoring all this make Vaughn a Grey Warden hooey because it makes NO sense - you aren't a Grey Warden then and have no idea that Duncan is going to conscript you later.

[ReubenLiew]

You defeated Vaughan at level 2.

You defeat Loghain at level 20.

Huge difference, plus even at that level he's a yellow mob.



As I said, courageous as far as up to submitting to the taint. By that time you either are proven to be actually courageous or be gutted.



And let's not kid ourselves. Are you seriously suggesting Vaughan is a good fighter? That's just reaching, that is.

[Herr Uhl]

mousestalker wrote...
Even more about Vaughan: He is the son of the Arl of Denerim. He is quite a big wheel in the capitol city of Ferelden. And he has to go kidnap and rape elven women to gratify himself? 

If he had any decency, he would have to carry a club to fight women throwing themselves at him (think dwarven noble hunters). He could have all the sex he wants, all the relationships he wants. He could have multiple relationships. He really could have whatever he wants. And what he wants is to go to the Alienage, grab women from the lowest strata of society and force them to couple with him.

This is why I dislike Vaughn a lot. Even though it is not as much as for the dwarven nobles, there still are plenty of gold diggers out there.

He just does it because he is a bad, bad man.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:03 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I'm ignoring all this make Vaughn a Grey Warden hooey because it makes NO sense - you aren't a Grey Warden then and have no idea that Duncan is going to conscript you later.

Erm...OTHER origins?

You defeated Vaughan at level 2.

You defeat Loghain at level 20.

Fluff doesn't recongnize levels. That's a game mechanic, irrelevant to the story.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:03 .