219 réponses à ce sujet

[Crimson Vanguard]

Xyrm wrote...

I agree...giving him lash was a poor choice, and his HP/Shields are too low for the kind of risk you need (plus smash isn't as viable on most maps as it is on Glacier/White). But on the other hand, he has the single hardest hitting power in the game (using the power damage charge evo).

Ever heard about Biotic Hammer?

[Scam_poo]

Kalas321 wrote...

lol

i still think the batguard is worse. He plays like a bad copy of the kroguard

Lolwut? He's got pretty high base shields and runs much faster than the Kroguard. Get him a good shotgun and he outclasses the Phoenixguard big time.

[Xyrm]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Xyrm wrote...

I agree...giving him lash was a poor choice, and his HP/Shields are too low for the kind of risk you need (plus smash isn't as viable on most maps as it is on Glacier/White). But on the other hand, he has the single hardest hitting power in the game (using the power damage charge evo).

Ever heard about Biotic Hammer?

I can't say for sure either way, BUT...

According to the Narida class builder, with smash you can get up to about 5800 damage to barriers/armor (actually caps at 5341, but that's missing the extra 433 you can get from the pistol or smg power mod).  Since armor is the most important type of damage (at least IMO, because of boss killing) lets use that as the standard.

The Krolord actually doesn't have valid values for biotic hammer, but the base melee only gets up to 3052 against armor, and 4070 against everything else with rage up, going for full melee damage and power damage elsewhere.  As such, I think he might win out against barriers, shields, and health (difference of about 1700), but I would be surprised if he got an extra ~2700 damage against armor from biotic hammer.  All the while, the range is MUCH shorter and can't be executed through walls.

I'm not saying you're wrong... you might be right.  My point being if there is a difference, it won't be THAT large per hit.  And smash has, without a doubt, more DPS when spammed than any other ability that is NOT a grenade (those run out anyway).

Modifié par Xyrm, 06 mars 2013 - 08:53 .

[Jerkhart]

Kalas321 wrote...

lol

i still think the batguard is worse. He plays like a bad copy of the kroguard

With maxed melee and the 75% buff from heavy melee he can one shot a phantom charge+melee. I can get ganged up on by a group of two phantoms and three dragoons and lay waste to the whole group.

[heybigmoney]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

 Too much risk for low reward. What he can do, other Vanguards can do better.

Dat avatar!

Modifié par heybigmoney, 06 mars 2013 - 08:52 .

[Shampoohorn]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Xyrm wrote...

I agree...giving him lash was a poor choice, and his HP/Shields are too low for the kind of risk you need (plus smash isn't as viable on most maps as it is on Glacier/White). But on the other hand, he has the single hardest hitting power in the game (using the power damage charge evo).

Ever heard about Biotic Hammer?

Vanguard Smash can do 5700+ area damage to armor.  Now add on 2000+ when you cancel it with heavy melee.  Even if that's 2nd best after the hammer it's still impressive. 

Is he the worst vanguard?  Maybe.  But he's not in Porsche 924 territory.

[Randomical]

l2lightmeleen00b

[Xyrm]

Shampoohorn wrote...
Vanguard Smash can do 5700+ area damage to armor.  Now add on 2000+ when you cancel it with heavy melee.  Even if that's 2nd best after the hammer it's still impressive. 

Is he the worst vanguard?  Maybe.  But he's not in Porsche 924 territory.

Yeah I missed the fitness evo (went shields)... my bad.  Updated.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Xyrm wrote...

I agree...giving him lash was a poor choice, and his HP/Shields are too low for the kind of risk you need (plus smash isn't as viable on most maps as it is on Glacier/White). But on the other hand, he has the single hardest hitting power in the game (using the power damage charge evo).

Ever heard about Biotic Hammer?

Vanguard Smash can do 5700+ area damage to armor.  Now add on 2000+ when you cancel it with heavy melee.  Even if that's 2nd best after the hammer it's still impressive. 

Is he the worst vanguard?  Maybe.  But he's not in Porsche 924 territory.

Even so you have to slap in a ton of equipment and risk yourself exposed to gunfire. Theoretical =/= Practical. While with Biotic Hammer have DR and you can "surf" into the target slap it right into its face and still have enough time to whisper "YOU ARE SO DEAD"

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Build it for melee damage and Smash.

Charge-> Heavy melee for groups (light melee vs single targets) and Smash vs bosses.

I called mine Rawhide.

The point is his playstyle encourages you to go CQC but you are so exposed and having no DR unlike other CQC classes.

Modifié par Crimson Vanguard, 06 mars 2013 - 08:58 .

[Xyrm]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...
Even so you have to slap in a ton of equipment and risk yourself exposed to gunfire. Theoretical =/= Practical. While with Biotic Hammer have DR and you can "surf" into the target slap it right into its face and still have enough time to whisper "YOU ARE SO DEAD"

Smash works through walls, just like Flamer or Snap Freeze.  Since most teams on high difficulties bring enemies to choke points or corners, it's easy to snap freeze with impunity.  Meanwhile, Krolord hammer "surfs" you into a sync kill which you can't dodge away from.

We can argue all day as to which class is "better"... thats up to team comp, personal preference, and skill.  The argument was about raw damage.  If the Smashguard looses on a single hit, it still wins for DPS.

Modifié par Xyrm, 06 mars 2013 - 09:01 .

[Original Twigman]

Someone has to be at the bottom....

Each class has one

[Draining Dragon]

He can self detonate biotic explosions and attack enemies through walls.

I love him.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Xyrm wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...
Even so you have to slap in a ton of equipment and risk yourself exposed to gunfire. Theoretical =/= Practical. While with Biotic Hammer have DR and you can "surf" into the target slap it right into its face and still have enough time to whisper "YOU ARE SO DEAD"

Smash works through walls, just like Flamer or Snap Freeze.  Since most teams on high difficulties bring enemies to choke points or corners, it's easy to snap freeze with impunity.  Meanwhile, Krolord hammer "surfs" you into a sync kill which you can't dodge away from.

We can argue all day as to which class is "better"... thats up to team comp, personal preference, and skill.  The argument was about raw damage.  If the Smashguard looses on a single hit, it still wins for DPS.

Flamer doesn't go through wall. Smashguard < Smashdept.

[Cyonan]

Xyrm wrote...
I can't say for sure either way, BUT...

According to the Narida class builder, with smash you can get up to about 5800 damage to barriers/armor (actually caps at 5341, but that's missing the extra 433 you can get from the pistol or smg power mod). Since armor is the most important type of damage (at least IMO, because of boss killing) lets use that as the standard.

The Krolord actually doesn't have valid values for biotic hammer, but the base melee only gets up to 3052 against armor, and 4070 against everything else with rage up, going for full melee damage and power damage elsewhere. As such, I think he might win out against barriers, shields, and health (difference of about 1700), but I would be surprised if he got an extra ~2700 damage against armor from biotic hammer. All the while, the range is MUCH shorter and can't be executed through walls.

I'm not saying you're wrong... you might be right. My point being if there is a difference, it won't be THAT large per hit. And smash has, without a doubt, more DPS when spammed than any other ability that is NOT a grenade (those run out anyway).

Biotic Hammer can actually get upwards of 6k on armour, plus the actual melee damage.

Modifié par Cyonan, 06 mars 2013 - 09:07 .

[GunWraith]

The nerf to smash killed the character for me.

[Credit2team]

time to

RETURN SMASH TO A SHORT COOLDOWN FFS

I've been saying this for months with no one listening

[Shampoohorn]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Even so you have to slap in a ton of equipment and risk yourself exposed to gunfire. Theoretical =/= Practical. While with Biotic Hammer have DR and you can "surf" into the target slap it right into its face and still have enough time to whisper "YOU ARE SO DEAD"

He still does 4400+ on a build specced for shields&melee.  And Smash does work through walls, plus you can strafe R/L a bit will in the animation to work with soft cover. 

[Malanek]

I still think the Volus is worse. Shield boost and Charge lack synergy and has very little offensive capability outside of it's weapon.

The CerbGuard is a bit underpowered but it is very fun.

Modifié par Malanek999, 06 mars 2013 - 09:08 .

[Credit2team]

GunWraith wrote...

The nerf to smash killed the character for me.

amen brother:innocent:

[Cyonan]

Malanek999 wrote...

I still think the Volus is worse. Shield boost and Charge lack synergy and has very little offensive capability outside of it's weapon.

The CerbGuard is a bit underpowered but it is very fun.

If you spec Biotic Orbs for recharge speed + 4 orbs then he's actually incredibly durable for a biotic bowling ball.

[Saints]

He truly gone down a bad road since his nerfs... They need to add DR or Health because he can't take much.

[thearbiter1337]

Dude i saw one who was getting shoot at so he charged while using the pizza


Bloody ****

[FlowCytometry]

For being the only VG that can reliably self BE, he pays a pretty damn big price for it. DR frames on his anims have been requested since forever, but no dice.

Too map dependent a kit for me. Can be fun; can also be aggravating.