219 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaelis_33]

The Pheonix Vanguard is one of my strongest kits. I just ignore smash altogether. It is what gets you killed. Play him as a shotgun marksman with lash which is a very nice skill. You can really screw with anything that has no armor, and you can biotic charge plus shotgun other stuff.

[Nicegil2012]

Is he outclassed by other vanguards... well probably. Is he a bad kit? I think not. I like that smash and lash set up explosions. Also his melee can be useful.

[Kaelis_33]

And I am not a fan of the batguard, I thought he would be similar, but without doge omg its not fun. Especially if you charge phantoms you need to be nimble.

[Scutshakes]

He may be outclassed by the other vanguards, but he's one of the only ones that can detonate his own biotic explosions, and the only one that can prime armored targets. Smash is a very strong power, just risky. Which is kind of the point of vanguards.

lol and dismiss if you want, but I still find him better and funner than most of the vanguards, minus the Slayer. I haven't tried the Cabal, though.

[Doctor Sensei]

Give him higher base health, shields, and movement speed. I wanna beeline into danger like a dumb Dragoon.

[Kaelis_33]

Scutshakes wrote...

He may be outclassed by the other vanguards, but he's one of the only ones that can detonate his own biotic explosions, and the only one that can prime armored targets. Smash is a very strong power, just risky. Which is kind of the point of vanguards.

lol and dismiss if you want, but I still find him better and funner than most of the vanguards, minus the Slayer. I haven't tried the Cabal, though.

batguard should be able to detonate too lash + biotic charge. You dont need smash. I skip it.

[8 Bears]

I find him to be very effective when used in combination with the geth scanner. The vanilla human vanguard however I don't find very effective - especially when you're PUG'ing it and your teammates aren't giving you much to detonate with nova.

[Elecbender]

EvanKester wrote...

The point is each of those Vanguards outdoes the Phoenix at whatever thing is being mentioned, not that they are the sole specialists in it. This is pretty much indisputable—Drellguard and the Cabal are both MUCH better with weapons than any other vanguard, for example. That several vanguards are better than him at a given thing doesn't undermine any point at all.

His melee isn't bad, but it's not great either. Meanwhile, the Kroguard, Broguard, Slayer and even the Cabal all have pretty awesome melees. The Slayer and broguard's melee combos will actually outdo the biotic whip heavy melee every time. Everything a melee Phoenix does, another kit does better. His one edge, quite narrowly, is Smash. And even with that, he's struggling.

And Lash is not an advantage for him. Yes, Lash is fun, but it's not actually all that great for a Vanguard.

it's really only by a narrow margin that the Phoenix Vanguard flops though. It wouldn't take much to give him a niche all his own—either more damage for his heavy melee, or more raw power in smash would do the trick.

Let me ask this:  Who would use a Volus over a Krogan Vanguard in terms of durability?  Hence the Volus is outclassed by the Krogan Vanguard in terms of this, but what irritated me is that he still listed it anyways.

Using this, why isn't this class where the CQC is?  From my 200+ waves completed with the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, he is FAR better at CQC than 3/4 of the Vanguards.

[Deerber]

Elecbender wrote...

Using this, why isn't this class where the CQC is?  From my 200+ waves completed with the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, he is FAR better at CQC than 3/4 of the Vanguards.

Well, let's see... List of vanguards which are better at CQC than the Smashguard, in no particular order:

novaguard
Slayer
asari
Drell
kroguard
broguard
Cabal

And that leaves... The Volus as worse in CQC than the Smashguard (and even that's not really set in stone).

I would be careful with numbers 

[sandboxgod]

Boog_89 wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Googleness wrote...

ROFL

L2WhipMeleeCancel scrub

L2ThinkBeforePostMoron



I don't call a class bad until I figure out how to play.

I hate it when people do this! Post a screenshot showing they finished top with a crap class/gun as if it somehow proves that it is not outclassed. What is the point? 

I agree screenshots dont prove anything. For all we know the other teammates were all N7 1s or were afk the whole match (no one gets booted in private match). Plus whats the big deal? If some guy you dont know calls you a scrub then no big deal right? I mean, most folks that post regurly on BSN are all amazing players.  I have joygasms everytime I see a BSNer land in my lobby and enjoy easy credits 

[Elecbender]

Deerber wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Using this, why isn't this class where the CQC is?  From my 200+ waves completed with the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, he is FAR better at CQC than 3/4 of the Vanguards.

Well, let's see... List of vanguards which are better at CQC than the Smashguard, in no particular order:

novaguard
Slayer
asari
Drell
kroguard
broguard
Cabal

And that leaves... The Volus as worse in CQC than the Smashguard (and even that's not really set in stone).

I would be careful with numbers 

In terms of killspeed:

No
Maybe
I don't count grenades unless the class entirely revolves around grenades.
See above
No
No
See #3

And I hope you relish in the fact his heavy melee can do more than Nova.  That's sad.

Modifié par Elecbender, 06 mars 2013 - 11:05 .

[Shampoohorn]

sandboxgod wrote...

Boog_89 wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Googleness wrote...

ROFL

L2WhipMeleeCancel scrub

L2ThinkBeforePostMoron



I don't call a class bad until I figure out how to play.

I hate it when people do this! Post a screenshot showing they finished top with a crap class/gun as if it somehow proves that it is not outclassed. What is the point? 

I agree screenshots dont prove anything. For all we know the other teammates were all N7 1s or were afk the whole match (no one gets booted in private match). Plus whats the big deal? If some guy you dont know calls you a scrub then no big deal right? I mean, most folks that post regurly on BSN are all amazing players.  I have joygasms everytime I see a BSNer land in my lobby and enjoy easy credits 

He was only showing that he knows how to play it.  High score in a 26 minute match is nothing that impressive other than showing CV is a good player.  I had a similar game yesterday with a 0/0/0/1/1 T-soldier. Which I only bring up to say that his screenshot is perfectly plausible with the PhoGuard without having any understanding of how Best to play him.

After doing my 200 waves with him, I can say that he's an effective, fun kit to play with.  Charge/melee/smash/melee strings are a blast.  Even if he is the worst vanguard, who cares?  That doesn't make him a bad kit.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 06 mars 2013 - 11:18 .

[BattleCop88]

 L2p noobess! He's perfectly balanced for spamming Smash behind walls! All you need is a Claymoar (see what I did there? (Did ya?!)), a maxed manifest, and Santa's sack full of consumables. He's a god when I solo plat. 

[Crimson Vanguard]

I didn't call him a bad character (looking at you Vorcha Hunter), but among all the Vanguards he is the riskiest one to play with since all the time he has to go face to face with enemies and has no DR or any protection power. Spam Smash through the wall? Are you gonna pick Glacier or White every time you play Smashguard? I was at London and kicked the crap out of Cerberus and dat 25 melee kills medal.

Hes really fun to play with but frustrated at the same time. I forgot how many times I lost all my barrier right after a charge because some ****ing Nemesis just want to watch the world burn, you are completely defenseless if that happened.

[GoudaMaster]

I think that he is the vanguard that can deal the most effectively against boss unit. Considering only power and melee, not weapon, take a look at the other vanguard:

The vanilla or N7 vanguard above silver rely mostly on detonation
Asari/ drell owns good grenade, but can't prime armored unit
Kroguard has carnage...? A power with low damage and almost everyone skip it
Batguard can only rely on his weapon on bosses, or on biotic charge. Same goes for the Volus
The Turian cabal can dance with bosses/spam her grenade and wait until they die, but that would be amazingly long.

Now the smashguard: he has the most powerful power against armored units (amongst vanguard), and can use it to prime them, charge them to detonate. As the vanguard, he is unique: he has a power with a long animation and without any damage reduction, so he's definitely no good to wipe mooks . Lash is really effective at the last rank but it is not a crowd control ability. In fact, it's against troopers that he relies mostly on charge and his weapon, contrary to any other vanguard.

And in fact, the worst vanguard is certainly the batguard, he shines only against cerberus, against geth he is ok, as you can only rely on charge, weapon and melee ( and the "invulnerability" when you melee directly out of charge)

[Happy Shepard]

Worst Vanguard doesn't mean bad character.

Imo, the Cerbdept is also better than him. Dat Singularity.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Happy Shepard wrote...

Worst Vanguard doesn't mean bad character.

Imo, the Cerbdept is also better than him. Dat Singularity.

Smashdept is better than him because you are playing as an Adept not a "In Your Face" type. Smashguard force you to CQC all the time but lacks the ability to protect yourself from exposing (No DR protection, No FTL speed to hit and run)

[Crimson Vanguard]

Bioware should reduce his Smash cooldown to allow him to charge right after Smash.

[robarcool]

Kalas321 wrote...

lol

i still think the batguard is worse. He plays like a bad copy of the kroguard

Nah

[Crimson Vanguard]

Most of the time I died with this guy was because of bull****. Charge not worknig even though Im the host, lost all my barrier right after a charge even though I was using CM 4. These didnt happen to other Vanguard often.

[hell destroyer]

WHat? He's awesome. I always score the highest with him. BIOTIC EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE!!

[Arctican]

He may be the worst Vanguard, but that's not saying much. All the Vanguards are pretty good kits. And since Biotic Charge bonus power is actually pretty viable, it;s buffed the Charge>Smash combo considerably.

[Oni Changas]

Deerber wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Using this, why isn't this class where the CQC is?  From my 200+ waves completed with the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, he is FAR better at CQC than 3/4 of the Vanguards.

Well, let's see... List of vanguards which are better at CQC than the Smashguard, in no particular order:

novaguard
Slayer
asari
Drell
kroguard
broguard
Cabal

And that leaves... The Volus as worse in CQC than the Smashguard (and even that's not really set in stone).

I would be careful with numbers 

What the crap? Do you people know how to cancel the Smash animation? It's still one of the best damn attacks in the game.
Smash~roll to the side
Heavy melee
Shoot gun

Pair that up with Bonus Power for BC and you've got one hell of a harasser. All Vanguards have their strengths and weaknesses and the whole squad is balanced across the board. And you're not doing the Volus right if you're not charging every 1.6 seconds.

Modifié par OniTYME, 08 mars 2013 - 03:04 .

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Googleness wrote...

ROFL

L2WhipMeleeCancel scrub

L2ThinkBeforePostMoron



I don't call a class bad until I figure out how to play.

 I know how to play just fine, that doesn't make the class good though.  A good player can make any kit great, especially if your team sucks.

[Bolo Xia]

funny how you guys are fogging the issue with this whole skill debate, sound like a bunch of kids in here.

anyway, i agree with CV about this character for the most part.
i think this character needs more fitness, even just a little would go a long way.