153 réponses à ce sujet

[Sloth Of Doom]

Like chickenwaffle said, i think the writing behind a villain is much more important than the type of villain. I tend t prefer 'grayer' villains simply because they usually tend to be written better and have more thought put into them. Anyone can write a puppy smothering, kitten poisoning psychopath that just begs for the hero to kill them, so people that lack writing skill tend to favor this type of enemy over one that requires a bit of depth and character.



I am not saying that all 'super naughty' villains are poorly written, just that MOST of them are. Naysayers can talk to my laser eyes.

[cinderburster]

I prefer a villain that lurks in the gray areas of morality. If I can't empathize with them on some level and feel a little dirty doing it, I don't feel that they're an effective villain. As for Obsidian taking over... Oblivion was amazing as far as freedoms go, but the main plotline was a bit stale. I'm much happier with the linear nature of DA and the well developed characters. They aren't just faces that tell you things, like the NPCs in many games. Bioware's team did a good job of making them live and breathe for me.

Modifié par cinderburster, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:56 .

[addiction21]

cinderburster wrote...

I prefer a villain that lurks in the gray areas of morality. If I can't empathize with them on some level and feel a little dirty doing it, I don't feel that they're an effective villain. As for Obsidian taking over... Oblivion was amazing as far as freedoms go, but the main plotline was a bit stale. I'm much happier with the linear nature of DA and the well developed characters. They aren't just faces that tell you things, like the NPCs in many games. Bioware's team did a good job of making them live and breathe for me.

Well I do suffer a bit from megalomania so I can typically sypathize a little with the classical MUWAHAHHA! baddie. The world rarely understands such a great mind and the benefits a world under one mans thumb can bring

[AXidenT Gamer]

*Is waiting for the Sandal Villain to appear*

[KilrB]

BioWare needs to get Thomas Harris on their team so he can introduce this guy to Dragon Age:



http://en.wikipedia....Hannibal_Lecter

[addiction21]

AXidenT Gamer wrote...

*Is waiting for the Sandal Villain to appear*

The point of having a villain is that you can defeat it giving the slimist chance of victory. There is no hope of victory against ENCHANTMENT

[Frozeal]

For example... Watchmen's villian is the best one EVER. period.

It's so awesome that if you haven't read the comic go and read it! Watchmen > all

Modifié par Frozeal, 13 janvier 2010 - 07:33 .

[Behindyounow]

Watchmen doesn't have a villain.

[TheMufflon]

Behindyounow wrote...

Watchmen doesn't have a villain.

That depends on how you define villain.

It's antagonists are awsome, though. All six of them.

[Behindyounow]

TheMufflon wrote...

That depends on how you define villain.

It's antagonists are awsome, though. All six of them.

Thats what I was getting at. There was no single villain.

[Behindyounow]

Triple post.

Modifié par Behindyounow, 13 janvier 2010 - 07:52 .

[Behindyounow]

TheMufflon wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

Watchmen doesn't have a villain.

That depends on how you define villain.

It's antagonists are awsome, though. All six of them.

[Frozeal]

Behindyounow wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

That depends on how you define villain.

It's antagonists are awsome, though. All six of them.

Thats what I was getting at. There was no single villain.

Yes I know, but I'm trying to spoil as little as I can... if you read my other posts you would realize that I'm not a big fan of the "villain" notion.
Tho, you understood what I mean, more than focusing on a bilateral relation, hero/villain, I think it's preferable the more complex relation between the individuals and from there trying to work up a thing.
For example Dragon Age, the political turmoil, or better; Dune. Muad' Dib > All

[addiction21]

Frozeal wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

That depends on how you define villain.

It's antagonists are awsome, though. All six of them.

Thats what I was getting at. There was no single villain.

Yes I know, but I'm trying to spoil as little as I can... if you read my other posts you would realize that I'm not a big fan of the "villain" notion.
Tho, you understood what I mean, more than focusing on a bilateral relation, hero/villain, I think it's preferable the more complex relation between the individuals and from there trying to work up a thing.
For example Dragon Age, the political turmoil, or better; Dune. Muad' Dib > All

Very true and I think leto and what he reminisces about doing in the God Emperor book is another fine example of that that morale greyness even tho I really did not care for that book or any that followed it in line. Only thru sheer force of will and my natural stubborness did I complete reading the series.
I did enjoy the Legends of Dune books and another morally grey decision that Vorian Atreides to end the war I believe to be a fine example. What is victory worth to you?
And sloth above says it better then I ever could its the how for me not the what. I just feel there is this trend towards the grey area and it is not always the case. Sometimes someone just wants to see the world burn and it can be fun and now a days refreshing to see that type of character around....   and then thoroughly kick his ass up and down the street

Modifié par addiction21, 13 janvier 2010 - 08:39 .

[Cr4sh Dummy]

What Obsidian did with Kreia was a cheap plot twist; I don't like being played. I like Bioware's approach, the villain is know as a villain from the start. There is no ambiguity, but you can almost sympathize with their motives. Loghain committed regicide by abandoning Maric's son. But you can understand his motives, from his perspective Cailan as a weak and inept king who's extremely naive and foolhardy. He's not fit to rule and he might subjugated the kingdom to Orlesian if he accepts their aid.

[cinderburster]

addiction21 wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

I prefer a villain that lurks in the gray areas of morality. If I can't empathize with them on some level and feel a little dirty doing it, I don't feel that they're an effective villain. As for Obsidian taking over... Oblivion was amazing as far as freedoms go, but the main plotline was a bit stale. I'm much happier with the linear nature of DA and the well developed characters. They aren't just faces that tell you things, like the NPCs in many games. Bioware's team did a good job of making them live and breathe for me.

Well I do suffer a bit from megalomania so I can typically sypathize a little with the classical MUWAHAHHA! baddie. The world rarely understands such a great mind and the benefits a world under one mans thumb can bring

Nothing wrong with a bit of megalomania.   I just don't much care for villains that are PURE EVIL FOR THE SAKE OF EVIL without any actual, y'know, reasoning behind it.  World domination is a fine, time-honored tradition and I can respect that.

[bjdbwea]

Cr4sh Dummy wrote...

What Obsidian did with Kreia was a cheap plot twist; I don't like being played.

I wouldn't even consider it a plot twist. It was so clear from the beginning that she was not some nice old lady, but that she was some kind of bad, and that she'd betray you sooner or later. There was no depth and nothing special to her. Her story and in fact the whole story in KotoR 2 was so far-fetched, botched and confused, it was laughable.

[Lockkaliber]

What Obsidian did with Kreia was not a plot-twist. It's your stupidity that makes it out to be. She even says so herself at the end of the game "There is no great revelation, no great secret, there is only you.". It was always obvious that there was something very wrong about her, because she ****ing tells you during the game that she used to be a Sith Lord. In fact, the whole game can be considered one long boss-encounter when you think about it.



I greatly suspect that people that argue that Kreia was a bad plot twist only thinks she is one because of their experience with the first game. It's like they expected a plot twist just because there was one in the first game, and when there was none to be had, they try to say that there was one but it was bad.

[Frozeal]

Lockkaliber wrote...

What Obsidian did with Kreia was not a plot-twist. It's your stupidity that makes it out to be. She even says so herself at the end of the game "There is no great revelation, no great secret, there is only you.". It was always obvious that there was something very wrong about her, because she ****ing tells you during the game that she used to be a Sith Lord. In fact, the whole game can be considered one long boss-encounter when you think about it.

I greatly suspect that people that argue that Kreia was a bad plot twist only thinks she is one because of their experience with the first game. It's like they expected a plot twist just because there was one in the first game, and when there was none to be had, they try to say that there was one but it was bad.

Agree with you, Kreia was pretty obvious to us, the superior minds.

[NicklasBertelsen]

bjdbwea wrote...

Cr4sh Dummy wrote...

What Obsidian did with Kreia was a cheap plot twist; I don't like being played.

I wouldn't even consider it a plot twist. It was so clear from the beginning that she was not some nice old lady, but that she was some kind of bad, and that she'd betray you sooner or later. There was no depth and nothing special to her. Her story and in fact the whole story in KotoR 2 was so far-fetched, botched and confused, it was laughable.

ye ossdian only rites ridiculos characters and plots bioware are the true masters of writing amirite?

[Catsith]

NicklasBertelsen wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Cr4sh Dummy wrote...

What Obsidian did with Kreia was a cheap plot twist; I don't like being played.

I wouldn't even consider it a plot twist. It was so clear from the beginning that she was not some nice old lady, but that she was some kind of bad, and that she'd betray you sooner or later. There was no depth and nothing special to her. Her story and in fact the whole story in KotoR 2 was so far-fetched, botched and confused, it was laughable.

ye ossdian only rites ridiculos characters and plots bioware are the true masters of writing amirite?

You're trying way too hard. The only thing worse than a Bioware fanboy is an Obsidian fanboy. 

Also this: http://www.rpgcodex....der=asc&start=0

[NicklasBertelsen]

cmon now guyse kreias twist had nothing on revan. in ktor1 it literally had me going OH MY GOD kreias twistwas just some fancy talk no one understood.

[NicklasBertelsen]

Catsith wrote...

NicklasBertelsen wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Cr4sh Dummy wrote...

What Obsidian did with Kreia was a cheap plot twist; I don't like being played.

I wouldn't even consider it a plot twist. It was so clear from the beginning that she was not some nice old lady, but that she was some kind of bad, and that she'd betray you sooner or later. There was no depth and nothing special to her. Her story and in fact the whole story in KotoR 2 was so far-fetched, botched and confused, it was laughable.

ye ossdian only rites ridiculos characters and plots bioware are the true masters of writing amirite?

You're trying way too hard. The only thing worse than a Bioware fanboy is an Obsidian fanboy. 

Also this: http://www.rpgcodex....der=asc&start=0

Cox.

Modifié par NicklasBertelsen, 13 janvier 2010 - 11:39 .

[addiction21]

So is the discussion over now? Because I have been in enough "Im right your wrong and a stupid fanboy" "no I am right and your just a stupid troll" **** throwing threads to last a life time.