202 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

mijames1 wrote...

A part of the problem with Tactical cloak that I have not seen mentioned is that it is amazing with only taking 4 evolutions. That makes it so you can take 4 evolutions of fitness or something else that you would have skipped. The damage or duration choice should be moved to 5 instead of 4.

You'll still see TGI, AIU, Huntress, and Snipers taking it to 6 ranks for evo 6 damage increase.

Moving it up to rank 5 wouldn't really change much for a lot of my Infiltrators, personally.

[WaffleCrab]

They break the cycle with synthesis; an SI, with geth speech, AIU defence matrix and TGI's stimpacks ;D

[Blind2Society]

Tokenusername wrote...

Tac-Cloak should never have given a raw damage bonus.

Yup, and then it becomes an entire class full of characters nobody ever uses. Sorry, the objective of the game is not to hide from the enemy, it's to kill them. TC would become such a situational power that all infiltrators would simply be gimped versions of other classes.

[sN00Z]

MasterReefa wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...

I keep saying it, but the biggest problem with most class balance in this game is the unrestricted weapons use.

If they had retained ME1/ME2 class restrictions on weapons, Infiltrators would not be nearly as powerful, and they could actually balance the various weapons in the game properly. All non-UR ARs could no longer suck, all non-Hurricane SMGs could no longer suck, Shotguns would no longer serve infiltrators better than Vanguards, their primary class, and solders would actually be the walking arsenals they used to be with the accompanying versatility. The ME series used to force a player to choose a balance of weapons output and powers output. Now you can have both, which makes balancing a crapshoot.

Ah, well.

The game wouldn't be half as fun if that were the case.

True, I hate to break it to you but a large amount of people on these forums do not believe that Me3 multiplayer balance changes should be centered on the fundemental concept of fun.

From the information I've accumulated so far;

"balance" the game until the only the discernible difference between a players score is a player's skills > Fun 

Modifié par sN00Z, 07 mars 2013 - 07:21 .

[sN00Z]

If the class is will still be labeled as "infiltrators" then I think the shadow is one of the only examples that fit the description correctly.

She avoids harm to get to where she needs to go, attack the enemy without alerting others, then must find a path that contains the least amount of danger.

Other infiltrators seem to do more of "I'm gona shoot you in the face and i don't care if you see me"

*No damage bonus, but allow them to fire their weapons and use powers undetected for a duration. (An infiltrator undoubtedly is trained to use their weapons/powers in silence)

*Heavy Load out = slow movement. Infiltrators must be light on their feet in order to tactically out maneuver the enemy, carrying a ton should prevent them from doing so.

*Increase the speed significantly, faster than the drell. (One example could be "heightened senses" tech tree)

*Separate cool down than their powers. (Why would a combatant choose this company's technology when it prevents them from using their own powers?)

*Use silenced weapons, mod them or use permanent silenced weapons (M-11), otherwise you break cloak when you shoot.

Modifié par sN00Z, 07 mars 2013 - 07:34 .

[mijames1]

Cyonan wrote...

You'll still see TGI, AIU, Huntress, and Snipers taking it to 6 ranks for evo 6 damage increase.

Moving it up to rank 5 wouldn't really change much for a lot of my Infiltrators, personally.

yea it definitely isnt the be all end all solution but it would make a lot of infiltrators 15% squishier. 

[Stardusk]

Blind2Society wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tac-Cloak should never have given a raw damage bonus.

Yup, and then it becomes an entire class full of characters nobody ever uses. Sorry, the objective of the game is not to hide from the enemy, it's to kill them. TC would become such a situational power that all infiltrators would simply be gimped versions of other classes.

Well, other classes are kind of gimped versions of Infiltrators...so...

Modifié par Stardusk, 08 mars 2013 - 06:53 .

[Nydus Templar]

Stardusk wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tac-Cloak should never have given a raw damage bonus.

Yup, and then it becomes an entire class full of characters nobody ever uses. Sorry, the objective of the game is not to hide from the enemy, it's to kill them. TC would become such a situational power that all infiltrators would simply be gimped versions of other classes.

Well, other classes are kind of gimped versions of Infiltrators...so...

Like I said, TC needs to be their unique class ability, but not the only ability that really matters.

Lots of times, especially during Platinum, I'll use Tac Cloak as more than just a damage bonus.  Its for repositioning, helping up allies, grabbing ammo/grenades, getting to objectives unnoticed, giving yourself a second to breathe in the middle of a firefight.

It can do all of these things, and makes you one of the hardest hitting weapon damage dealers, and puts you closer to being on par with alot of the casters for damage due to the massive damage increase.

Now, all said above I don't actually care if they get nerfed further, I just think things need to be redressed in ME4 to ensure that Tac Cloak is a feature of the class, not the class itself.

Cyonan wrote...

It's no different than if you took the nerf bat to Adenaline Rush or Marksman. Yeah Infiltrators are reliant on it, but a lot of characters are reliant on one power to do the bulk of their damage.

It doesn't make much sense to me that you need to choose melee vs shields, but that doesn't mean they should just scrap the idea completely. Any discussion at this point is pretty much for Mass Effect 4, so I would say give a revamp so that it's shields vs something else.

Having both ammo powers and consumables will make the powers not all that desirable. Especially since in your list you left a sunder armour effect in Cryo Blast(Single shot snipers also barely notice armour). I do like the idea of having a pool of powers to choose from, however.

The thing is that people are talking about TC as being the sole problem that's making Infiltrators "overpowered".
If this were true it not should matter what the other 2 abilities are, every Infiltrator should be able to just pick up a gun and be OP with Tactical Cloak.

but we have plenty of kits that can keep up with Tactical Cloak damage unless it's something on the level of the GI, which is more than just Tactical Cloak. It's 3 powers working in perfect synergy to all increase damage output.

The powers I listed were just an example, but you get the point I'm making.  Having a bigger toolbox means you don't need a single tool that can do it all.  It also means there can be trade offs.  Although, to be fair, the fact that you've got Cryo to weaken armor versus Armor Piercing Ammo is a bit more depth in choice.

Using APA would free up the ammo consumable slot for another consumable type, and free up a weapon mod slot, all at the cost of an active power.  On the other hand, you're giving up (if they built the power right) a great debuff/CC tool that can cause explosions as well at the cost of using a consumable to get an ammo power.  That's a choice a player would have to make on their own, and neither answer would be wrong or right by default.

Also, its not just TCs damage that's the issue, its the total package.  You mentioned AR & Marks, but neither of them provide the raw utility and damage combined.  Its just not the same.  Sure, AR can possibly give you some defensive boosts at the cost of offensive power, but pressing AR is a decision that has to be made.  Its not always the right call to press AR or Marks.  Its always the right call to press Tactical Cloak.  That's an issue from a design standpoint.

Honestly, I don't see the point in making the trade in the first place.  Just hand out set stats for the class that the player can modify using equipment and  powers.  It doesn't serve anyone to have to choose between power  damage and weapon damage, especially since its a vapid choice on some classes. Better to focus the choice of points expenditures, and the player's attention, on powers to compliment their playstyle.

Modifié par Nydus Templar, 08 mars 2013 - 10:49 .

[Blind2Society]

Stardusk wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tac-Cloak should never have given a raw damage bonus.

Yup, and then it becomes an entire class full of characters nobody ever uses. Sorry, the objective of the game is not to hide from the enemy, it's to kill them. TC would become such a situational power that all infiltrators would simply be gimped versions of other classes.

Well, other classes are kind of gimped versions of Infiltrators...so...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

[Stardusk]

Blind2Society wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Tac-Cloak should never have given a raw damage bonus.

Yup, and then it becomes an entire class full of characters nobody ever uses. Sorry, the objective of the game is not to hide from the enemy, it's to kill them. TC would become such a situational power that all infiltrators would simply be gimped versions of other classes.

Well, other classes are kind of gimped versions of Infiltrators...so...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

LOL. the Asari Infiltrator is the best biotic in the game and she gets no weapon damage. Bad argument.

[Blind2Society]

Stardusk wrote...

LOL. the Asari Infiltrator is the best biotic in the game and she gets no weapon damage. Bad argument.

Ah yes, one infiltrator is different. One that was just added towards the end of the games life cycle.  Bad argument

Perhaps I should clarify that they rely on the damage bonus not just weapons. I suppose that's needed since one of them doesn't rely on weapons. I guess you could also add the shadow to your list but, then again, she can also be a weapon build.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 08 mars 2013 - 04:08 .

[ElectroNeonPanda]

Blind2Society wrote...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

Then all other classes need the powers buffing out the wazoo because it's glaringly obvious none of them come anywhere near close to the survivability, utility, and raw kick-assery of the Infiltrator class.

[Blind2Society]

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

Then all other classes need the powers buffing out the wazoo because it's glaringly obvious none of them come anywhere near close to the survivability, utility, and raw kick-assery of the Infiltrator class.

Well as much as I don't like saying this....

learn to play

[dmurphy8A5]

Okay so here is a suggestion, leave the rank tree essentially the same but on the duration/damage ranks make the specialization very different. If ou take the duration evo then your shields are instantly fully drained but you become undetectable a range and enemies are only able to accurately shoot at you if you are sprinting right next to them, though they still have some decreased accuracy. Also for this rank you are able to shoot without breaking cloak as your armors shield recharge is directed into powering the cloak. There could be some small damage increase with this or not it really doesn't matter, no more than 10% as an extreme. If you take the damage evo then again your shields are instantly drained and don't recharge but when you shoot you break cloak. However to account for this extra damage our armors power systems are drained and the power servos/mass effect fields that reduce the armors weight are diverted to the weapon. This results in slowed movement speed for several seconds while the systems reboot.

[HolyAvenger]

I have proposed many TC redesigns. I hope the power is overhauled completely in ME4.

It is ridiculous that a TGI's overload is better than a HE or GE.

[HolyAvenger]

Blind2Society wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

Then all other classes need the powers buffing out the wazoo because it's glaringly obvious none of them come anywhere near close to the survivability, utility, and raw kick-assery of the Infiltrator class.

Well as much as I don't like saying this....

learn to play

He's right.

You gonna tell me to L2P too?

[ElectroNeonPanda]

Blind2Society wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

Then all other classes need the powers buffing out the wazoo because it's glaringly obvious none of them come anywhere near close to the survivability, utility, and raw kick-assery of the Infiltrator class.

Well as much as I don't like saying this....

learn to play

Good comeback there champ.

Seen many all Engineer Platinum Speed Runs lately.  Or Sentinels, Soldiers etc for that matter.  

No, thought not.

[Stardusk]

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

No they're not. Infiltrators rely on weapons for their damage. Other classes rely on weapons and powers or just powers. They're different. If you take away infiltrator weapon damage then they have nothing.

Then all other classes need the powers buffing out the wazoo because it's glaringly obvious none of them come anywhere near close to the survivability, utility, and raw kick-assery of the Infiltrator class.

Well as much as I don't like saying this....

learn to play

Good comeback there champ.

Seen many all Engineer Platinum Speed Runs lately.  Or Sentinels, Soldiers etc for that matter.  

No, thought not.

Infiltrators should at best remain elite snipers, but in ME3 MP they became the best at everything. I can't think of anything they don't do better than any other class except maybe evasion with the Cabal.

[silencekills]

 By harvesting nerfers and eliminating neutralists and buffers. 

[Blind2Society]

HolyAvenger wrote...

He's right.

You gonna tell me to L2P too?

I guess so. I can kick ass with all other classes, I wonder why you guys can't. Perhaps you need to learn to play?

[Alijah Green]

A year later and your butt still hurts, talk about having a crush.....AR is way more powerful but here we go with another TC thread

[Computron2000]

If cloak is the ultimate weapon some think it is, then the human infilitator should be walloping the other classes. Yeah definitely the HI thumps the paladin, kroguard, krosoldier, QME, Volus engineer, etc. Someone will respond on how great he is with a sniper rifle, i can already hear it.

[HolyAvenger]

Blind2Society wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

He's right.

You gonna tell me to L2P too?

I guess so. I can kick ass with all other classes, I wonder why you guys can't. Perhaps you need to learn to play?

I regularly kick ass with all classes.

Infiltrators are still ezymode.

That argument is specious.

Ahh yes, I definitely need to l2p, that plat solo means nothing.

[Blind2Society]

Computron2000 wrote...

If cloak is the ultimate weapon some think it is, then the human infilitator should be walloping the other classes. Yeah definitely the HI thumps the paladin, kroguard, krosoldier, QME, Volus engineer, etc. Someone will respond on how great he is with a sniper rifle, i can already hear it.

Come on man. Don't you get it, infiltrators are the best. If someone takes an infiltrator all those Furies, Asirguards, Pladins, etc don't stand a chance.

[Alijah Green]

Blind2Society wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

He's right.

You gonna tell me to L2P too?

I guess so. I can kick ass with all other classes, I wonder why you guys can't. Perhaps you need to learn to play?

^^this all day, my vanilla HA will out perform all kits with no consumables on but yeah learn how too play