Aller au contenu

Photo

The Cycles of Infiltrator Crisis...


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
202 réponses à ce sujet

#176
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

Nydus Templar wrote...
The powers I listed were just an example, but you get the point I'm making. Having a bigger toolbox means you don't need a single tool that can do it all. It also means there can be trade offs. Although, to be fair, the fact that you've got Cryo to weaken armor versus Armor Piercing Ammo is a bit more depth in choice.

Using APA would free up the ammo consumable slot for another consumable type, and free up a weapon mod slot, all at the cost of an active power. On the other hand, you're giving up (if they built the power right) a great debuff/CC tool that can cause explosions as well at the cost of using a consumable to get an ammo power. That's a choice a player would have to make on their own, and neither answer would be wrong or right by default.

Also, its not just TCs damage that's the issue, its the total package. You mentioned AR & Marks, but neither of them provide the raw utility and damage combined. Its just not the same. Sure, AR can possibly give you some defensive boosts at the cost of offensive power, but pressing AR is a decision that has to be made. Its not always the right call to press AR or Marks. Its always the right call to press Tactical Cloak. That's an issue from a design standpoint.

Honestly, I don't see the point in making the trade in the first place. Just hand out set stats for the class that the player can modify using equipment and powers. It doesn't serve anyone to have to choose between power damage and weapon damage, especially since its a vapid choice on some classes. Better to focus the choice of points expenditures, and the player's attention, on powers to compliment their playstyle.


The system could use some tweaking, though I do like the overall idea of having a pool of powers to choose from.

I would argue that it's not always the right time to press TC. Use it while an enemy is in the middle of shooting you? Have fun with him because he still knows where you are until his next attack cycle. Close to an enemy? Have fun with him because he can still see you.

There is a reason that many people on the BSN say that Tactical Cloak does not cloak, because using it effectively to cloak is a skill that you need to understand when to use it to become invisible. As far as a damage boost is concerned I would say it's equal to Adrenaline Rush as to when you want to use it(basically any time you're attacking).

Marksman can also make any gun in the game into a long ranged weapon. Tactical Cloak cannot do this.

The point is not to remove the choice it presents. I don't believe they should just give up because this iteration wasn't ideal.

Stardusk wrote...

LOL. the Asari Infiltrator is the best biotic in the game and she gets no weapon damage. Bad argument.


Drell Adept and N7 Fury say that they're very disappointed that you forgot about them.

#177
HolyAvenger

HolyAvenger
  • Members
  • 13 848 messages

Computron2000 wrote...

If cloak is the ultimate weapon some think it is, then the human infilitator should be walloping the other classes. Yeah definitely the HI thumps the paladin, kroguard, krosoldier, QME, Volus engineer, etc. Someone will respond on how great he is with a sniper rifle, i can already hear it.

Not cloak alone, but cloak's synergy with other powers. HInf has the worst of that.

If there was no melee or power damage boost from cloak for free, it'd be a heckuva lot more balanced.

I would probably re-design it to be:

Rank 4: Power/Melee damage or Weapon damage
Rank 5:  Recharge Speed or Duration
Rank 6: Sniper/AR etc damage or Bonus Power (cannot cancel power CD with cloak without this option)

#178
Alijah Green

Alijah Green
  • Members
  • 2 541 messages

HolyAvenger wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

He's right.

You gonna tell me to L2P too?


I guess so. I can kick ass with all other classes, I wonder why you guys can't. Perhaps you need to learn to play?

I regularly kick ass with all classes.

Infiltrators are still ezymode.

That argument is specious.

Ahh yes, I definitely need to l2p, that plat solo means nothing.Posted Image


walking backwards for over 50 mins in a oblong circle yup that takes skill

#179
HolyAvenger

HolyAvenger
  • Members
  • 13 848 messages

Alijah Green wrote...

walking backwards for over 50 mins in a oblong circle yup that takes skill

Nothing in this game takes "skill" then.

#180
Alijah Green

Alijah Green
  • Members
  • 2 541 messages
once someone proves that TC > AR you guys might have a leg to stand on.....but at the end of the day it is your ego that is the problem not the class power

#181
lightswitch

lightswitch
  • Members
  • 3 664 messages

Alijah Green wrote...

walking backwards for over 50 mins in a oblong circle yup that takes skill


There's just no way to respond to an argument so filled with fallacies and falsifications...

#182
Stardusk

Stardusk
  • Members
  • 6 353 messages

Alijah Green wrote...

once someone proves that TC > AR you guys might have a leg to stand on.....but at the end of the day it is your ego that is the problem not the class power


TC damage is multiplicative with the last evolution. Ever try sniping with a Human Soldier vs. an Infiltrator? The Infiltrator does much more damage.

#183
dmurphy8A5

dmurphy8A5
  • Members
  • 29 messages
It's sad that this is what every TC thread degenerates into.

#184
lightswitch

lightswitch
  • Members
  • 3 664 messages
 Here's a video of the thing Alijah Green described.

Spoiler: It's nothing actually like soloing platinum.

#185
Blind2Society

Blind2Society
  • Members
  • 7 576 messages

Stardusk wrote...

Alijah Green wrote...

once someone proves that TC > AR you guys might have a leg to stand on.....but at the end of the day it is your ego that is the problem not the class power


TC damage is multiplicative with the last evolution. Ever try sniping with a Human Soldier vs. an Infiltrator? The Infiltrator does much more damage.


You have to consider a lot more than just damage when comparing those two powers. Plus that multplicative damage evo only ever pertains to a specific weapon class.

#186
Kuato Livezz

Kuato Livezz
  • Members
  • 1 034 messages

lightswitch wrote...

 Here's a video of the thing Alijah Green described.

Spoiler: It's nothing actually like soloing platinum.


what the.......

#187
Stardusk

Stardusk
  • Members
  • 6 353 messages

Blind2Society wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Alijah Green wrote...

once someone proves that TC > AR you guys might have a leg to stand on.....but at the end of the day it is your ego that is the problem not the class power


TC damage is multiplicative with the last evolution. Ever try sniping with a Human Soldier vs. an Infiltrator? The Infiltrator does much more damage.


You have to consider a lot more than just damage when comparing those two powers. Plus that multplicative damage evo only ever pertains to a specific weapon class.


LOL, I specficially was talking about snipers, we could talk about ARs or SGs too...

#188
Blind2Society

Blind2Society
  • Members
  • 7 576 messages

Stardusk wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Alijah Green wrote...

once someone proves that TC > AR you guys might have a leg to stand on.....but at the end of the day it is your ego that is the problem not the class power


TC damage is multiplicative with the last evolution. Ever try sniping with a Human Soldier vs. an Infiltrator? The Infiltrator does much more damage.


You have to consider a lot more than just damage when comparing those two powers. Plus that multplicative damage evo only ever pertains to a specific weapon class.


LOL, I specficially was talking about snipers, we could talk about ARs or SGs too...


Alijah brought it up and wasn't talking about any specific weapon class....

Also, I repeat.  You have to consider a lot more than just damage when comparing those two powers.

#189
ElectroNeonPanda

ElectroNeonPanda
  • Members
  • 523 messages

Blind2Society wrote...

Also, I repeat.  You have to consider a lot more than just damage when comparing those two powers.


You mean like hate-dumping and cooldown avoidance?

#190
UEG Donkey

UEG Donkey
  • Members
  • 1 329 messages
Here's how I'd balance TC in ME4; disallow cancelling TC to shorten the cooldown. Now you have a 7-8 second cooldown that can be reduced by carrying light weapons but not by cycling TC, power, shoot.

#191
Shampoohorn

Shampoohorn
  • Members
  • 5 861 messages

Alijah Green wrote...

once someone proves that TC > AR you guys might have a leg to stand on.....but at the end of the day it is your ego that is the problem not the class power


Strawman much?

The issues with TC span 10 kits, 9 of which have highly synergistic 2ndary powers or abilities. Power creep and short sighted design decisions have turned infiltrators into the best melee kits, best power kits, best DPS kits, best tanks etc.

AR is a great power, but it's only on 2 nearly identical kits that were part of the original design plan.  Hence, no "Cycles of Crisis." 

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 08 mars 2013 - 05:16 .


#192
Blind2Society

Blind2Society
  • Members
  • 7 576 messages

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

Also, I repeat.  You have to consider a lot more than just damage when comparing those two powers.


You mean like hate-dumping and cooldown avoidance?


Yeah, those are two of the many things.

Oh wait, you were trying to be witty....

Modifié par Blind2Society, 08 mars 2013 - 05:15 .


#193
dumael

dumael
  • Members
  • 474 messages

UEG Donkey wrote...

Here's how I'd balance TC in ME4; disallow cancelling TC to shorten the cooldown. Now you have a 7-8 second cooldown that can be reduced by carrying light weapons but not by cycling TC, power, shoot.


Aye. I agree there. I can vaguely understand why TC has a scaled cooldown but it should have a fixed cooldown. That and I'd have cloak lock out power usage while the weapon/melee bonus is active. Power usage with TC would require bonus power. Obviously that setup would break the Asari infiltrator, but she's something of an aberration in the class lineup.

#194
HolyAvenger

HolyAvenger
  • Members
  • 13 848 messages

dumael wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

Here's how I'd balance TC in ME4; disallow cancelling TC to shorten the cooldown. Now you have a 7-8 second cooldown that can be reduced by carrying light weapons but not by cycling TC, power, shoot.


Aye. I agree there. I can vaguely understand why TC has a scaled cooldown but it should have a fixed cooldown. That and I'd have cloak lock out power usage while the weapon/melee bonus is active. Power usage with TC would require bonus power. Obviously that setup would break the Asari infiltrator, but she's something of an aberration in the class lineup.

I love her but no way should she be able to put out biotic damage like she does.Posted Image

I proposed a TC redesign up the page.

#195
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

UEG Donkey wrote...

Here's how I'd balance TC in ME4; disallow cancelling TC to shorten the cooldown. Now you have a 7-8 second cooldown that can be reduced by carrying light weapons but not by cycling TC, power, shoot.


If you're going to do that you need to make the base cooldown about as long as Marksman or Adrenaline Rush so that it's not an 8 second cooldown with a Claymore.

The ability would be terrible compared to either of those without more frequent damage spikes, since it doesn't offer a free reload on top of its' damage boost.

and it's not like their power damage is going to make up the difference, unless you can find a way to toss a grenade every single cloak cycle.

#196
HolyAvenger

HolyAvenger
  • Members
  • 13 848 messages

Cyonan wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

Here's how I'd balance TC in ME4; disallow cancelling TC to shorten the cooldown. Now you have a 7-8 second cooldown that can be reduced by carrying light weapons but not by cycling TC, power, shoot.


If you're going to do that you need to make the base cooldown about as long as Marksman or Adrenaline Rush so that it's not an 8 second cooldown with a Claymore.

The ability would be terrible compared to either of those without more frequent damage spikes, since it doesn't offer a free reload on top of its' damage boost.

and it's not like their power damage is going to make up the difference, unless you can find a way to toss a grenade every single cloak cycle.


It'd make recharge speed a far more attractive proposition. Alternatively you can cancel CD but only if you shoot. If you use a power, you  have to eat the CD.

#197
kr3g

kr3g
  • Members
  • 554 messages

january42 wrote...

 A gear that gave you the volus light melee.


Sounds great actually )

#198
K_O_513

K_O_513
  • Members
  • 1 256 messages

HolyAvenger wrote...

Alijah Green wrote...

walking backwards for over 50 mins in a oblong circle yup that takes skill

Nothing in this game takes "skill" then.


Outside of aim, most of what makes people good in this game is simply knowledge and experience, unless you consider those part of the skills required for this game.

#199
BjornDaDwarf

BjornDaDwarf
  • Members
  • 3 729 messages

HolyAvenger wrote...

It'd make recharge speed a far more attractive proposition. Alternatively you can cancel CD but only if you shoot. If you use a power, you  have to eat the CD.



Require Bonus Power to fire a power from cloak (except for something like the Asari), and you solve a lot of problems.  No ProxMine spam.  No SF spam.  SI has to choose between SR damage or recharging Shields from Cloak.  TGI can't stunlock 3 enemies and mow them down with a Harrier.  Shotgun/AR Infils that want to use powers will have to spend 11 more points on Cloak for maximum utility.  

#200
HolyAvenger

HolyAvenger
  • Members
  • 13 848 messages

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

It'd make recharge speed a far more attractive proposition. Alternatively you can cancel CD but only if you shoot. If you use a power, you  have to eat the CD.



Require Bonus Power to fire a power from cloak (except for something like the Asari), and you solve a lot of problems.  No ProxMine spam.  No SF spam.  SI has to choose between SR damage or recharging Shields from Cloak.  TGI can't stunlock 3 enemies and mow them down with a Harrier.  Shotgun/AR Infils that want to use powers will have to spend 11 more points on Cloak for maximum utility.  

Yes exactly that is what I proposed that in my TC redesign.