159 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Here in Australia we have a publicly funded TV station, one of it's programs is called "Good Game" a very entertaining and often level headed program about games.

Link to YT version of show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3RF4_Vd9qI

"Goose" the features reporter did an excellent summary of how racial stereotyping is treated in games.

Apparently someone wanted an african american looking character in DA:O and these forums (the hive mind that they are) blew up with short sighted, conservative "don't change my games" attitude.

It's worth watching for anyone using BSN, as it makes you reflect on how you react to things. I would never be upset at making any game more minority friendly, but even so it's a good food for thought about how to act online (I recently apologized for my post ME3 actions after getting too involved in BSN hive mind and getting carried away all over the net about something I wasn't even initially upset with)

So I hope DA does do this minority inclusion more and more, as EA is quite good with the diversity factor with their BioWare division.

Please don't let me see BSN on public TV as a controversial thing again.

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 06:42 .

[Direwolf0294]

I didn't even know Good Game was still going. I thought they'd canceled it and were just sticking to Spawn Point, since that's apparently ultra popular with the kids.

[Firky]

Nice one, StElmo. Great show and great people behind it. (And interesting snippet.)

[MisanthropePrime]

Would an Australian want an "African American" looking character? Wouldn't "African Australian" be slightly more appropriate, or just, you know, "black"?

[Degs29]

StElmo wrote...
Apparently someone wanted an african american looking character in DA:O and these forums (the hive mind that they are) blew up with short sighted, conservative "don't change my games" attitude.

I think it's unfair to infer that kind of attitude is widespread on these boards.  You'll always have people who push the envelope for the sake of pushing the envelope or maybe even a few crazies who believe it.  It's not representative of the larger player population.

Being a white male, if I had a choice I'd rather play as a white male, than as say an African American woman.  I think that's only natural.  But, f that choice is out of my hands, I'm still going to play as whatever race and sex the protagonist is.

When it comes to supporting characters in games, there's virtually no reason not to include minorities or to have minorities in roles not "stereotypically" associated with them.  So they do have a point there.  I just don't like them talking about racism like game players are prone to it, or that it's a result of a developer's bias.

[Degs29]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Would an Australian want an "African American" looking character? Wouldn't "African Australian" be slightly more appropriate, or just, you know, "black"?

When it's a choice between being sensitive or being sensible, unfortunately you get a lot of political correctness.

[Plaintiff]

I liked the segment, but was surprised that they used Deus Ex as an example of a racially insensitive product. I thought that overall, it presented a wide variety of Chinese characters. Even if many of them were corrupt or violent, they weren't anymore so than the white characters in Detroit.

[MisanthropePrime]

Degs29 wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Would an Australian want an "African American" looking character? Wouldn't "African Australian" be slightly more appropriate, or just, you know, "black"?

When it's a choice between being sensitive or being sensible, unfortunately you get a lot of political correctness.

The term "black" is only considered "insensitive" by some Americans. In most of the commonwealth, Australia included, "black" is not considered rude at all.

[imbs]

Video seems unfair to me. Idk about the rest of you but that one character in gears of wars seemed to be a racial stereotype to me (from the limited stuff we see of him from the video at least) and then we find out that he was actually based on an actual person... Just seems unfair to sit back with 20/20 hindsight and decide which games have been insensitive and which haven't whilst only playing the critic.

Modifié par imbs, 07 mars 2013 - 07:37 .

[Plaintiff]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Would an Australian want an "African American" looking character? Wouldn't "African Australian" be slightly more appropriate, or just, you know, "black"?

"African Australian" is what I would say if I were referring to black characters in games made or set in Australia, but Australia doesn't make many games to begin with. Since the games are made in America and the characters identify as American, "African-American" is the term to use.

[Firky]

I dunno, you guys. I'm Aussie and I've literally never heard anyone use the term, "African Australian."

And I have no idea who you are referring to. People with an African background?

(Also, saying Australia doesn't make games isn't entirely accurate.  But I'm too busy bashing my head against SimCity's servers to try to argue that point right now.)

Modifié par Firky, 07 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[Plaintiff]

Firky wrote...

I dunno, you guys. I'm Aussie and I've literally never heard anyone use the term, "African Australian."

And I have no idea who you are referring to. People with an African background?

(Also, saying Australia doesn't make games isn't entirely accurate.  But I'm too busy bashing my head against SimCity's servers to try to argue that point right now.)

Well, I said we don't make many. I'm sure there are some, but I honestly can't remember the last time I heard of one.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 07 mars 2013 - 07:56 .

[Firky]

You're Aussie too? Do you use the term African Australian? (I'm not being confrontational. I'm curious.)

It depends which games you're talking about. There's quite a thriving Indie and mobile scene, like Halfbrick's Jetpack Joyride etc. There are government grants for various types of development and startups. AAA developers have people working from Aus in various capacities. Plus the old THQ etc. (I'm sorry. I really can't form a coherent argument. So tired.)

[Plaintiff]

Firky wrote...

You're Aussie too? Do you use the term African Australian? (I'm not being confrontational. I'm curious.)

Not regularly. 

"African American" is a term for someone of African descent who lives in America and identifies as an American. It only seems logical to me to modify the terminology based on where the subject lives.

It depends which games you're talking about. There's quite a thriving Indie and mobile scene, like Halfbrick's Jetpack Joyride etc. There are government grants for various types of development and startups. AAA developers have people working from Aus in various capacities. Plus the old THQ etc. (I'm sorry. I really can't form a coherent argument. So tired.)

I guess I'll have to do more research, I'm not really in the Indie scene.

[Firky]

I went to the Freeplay indie festival in Melbourne last year and went to a talk by BioShock's composer Emily Ridgway. She was amazing.

We need some Indigenous Aussies in our games. Wasn't there one in - what was that islandy, adventure game thing? (OK. I'm going to stop posting. I'm totally exhausted. But thanks for the Aussie related chat.)

[iSkelzor]

It seems like America is the only country that uses the term 'African-Insert your country'. I mean, there are British people who are of African descent, but I can't say I've heard of them being referred to as 'African-English' or 'African-British'.

[Conduit0]

Plaintiff wrote...

I liked the segment, but was surprised that they used Deus Ex as an example of a racially insensitive product. I thought that overall, it presented a wide variety of Chinese characters. Even if many of them were corrupt or violent, they weren't anymore so than the white characters in Detroit.

According to proper PC etiquette, only white males are allowed to be protrayed as corrupt, violent, or evil.

[Face of Evil]

I don't understand. Don't we all live in America?

Modifié par Face of Evil, 07 mars 2013 - 08:40 .

[StElmo]

Plaintiff wrote...

I liked the segment, but was surprised that they used Deus Ex as an example of a racially insensitive product. I thought that overall, it presented a wide variety of Chinese characters. Even if many of them were corrupt or violent, they weren't anymore so than the white characters in Detroit.

Deus Ex has some awful stereotyping. Like the homless black woman speaking in a stereotypical way.

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 12:01 .

[StElmo]

Firky wrote...

You're Aussie too? Do you use the term African Australian? (I'm not being confrontational. I'm curious.)

As far as I know, and I don't know a lot, black and white aren't considered offensive terms in Australia (although I COULD be wrong) provided they are not used as a slur or whatever.

African american is what we call people in america with african heritage, because I believe we know the term black is possibly considered offensive over there.

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 12:11 .

[StElmo]

Firky wrote...

I went to the Freeplay indie festival in Melbourne last year and went to a talk by BioShock's composer Emily Ridgway. She was amazing.

We need some Indigenous Aussies in our games. Wasn't there one in - what was that islandy, adventure game thing? (OK. I'm going to stop posting. I'm totally exhausted. But thanks for the Aussie related chat.)

Beneath a Steel sky by revolution software is a game set in post apocalyptic australia.

We need more games set in australia, lots of great cultural history with indigenous people, tricky to get permission to work on games with sensitive handling based on that though I imagine.

[AshenShug4r]

Lol, like there aren't white stereotypes in western media, ie the nerdy guy who is terrible at sports and bad with girls.

What a joke.

[StElmo]

AshenShug4r wrote...

Lol, like there aren't white stereotypes in western media, ie the nerdy guy who is terrible at sports and bad with girls.

What a joke.

Those aren't stereotypes, you could apply those traits to any race in a way.

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 09:44 .

[Dio Demon]

Honestly I just refer everyone as human, who really cares about where they came from or what they look like.

But I would like to see an Elven Tevinter Magister, just to show that elves can be just as ruthless and powerful. Also it would make a great plotline in which you hunt down the magister and try to identify him/her.

[Plaintiff]

StElmo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I liked the segment, but was surprised that they used Deus Ex as an example of a racially insensitive product. I thought that overall, it presented a wide variety of Chinese characters. Even if many of them were corrupt or violent, they weren't anymore so than the white characters in Detroit.

Deus Ex has some awful stereotyping. Like the homless black woman speaking ebonics.

I don't recall the character, but there's a lot of ambient dialogue in Deus Ex and I recall at least one example of a black woman who probably did have a home speaking very eloquently in the foyer of the the venue where Taggart gives his speech.

The term "Ebonics" is racist in and of itself because it falsely implies that the dialect is hereditary, and spoken exclusively by black people. But simply having a black character use it is not automatically an offensive stereotype, anymore than it is an offensive stereotype when Australian characters say "g'day", "mate" or "crikey".