159 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

Honestly I just refer everyone as human, who really cares about where they came from or what they look like.

But I would like to see an Elven Tevinter Magister, just to show that elves can be just as ruthless and powerful. Also it would make a great plotline in which you hunt down the magister and try to identify him/her.

Varania, Fenris' sister, was going to be made Danarius' new apprentice, which if that panned out would've probably had her ascend to Magister status. Whether she'd be a ruthless **** or one of the few good Magisters in the Senate is unknown. Even if her selling out Fenris was a cruel act, it doesn't necessarily indicate that she'd be a ruthless **** herself.

Given how fondly she remembers Fenris and the time they spent together, I'd say it was not a decision she made easily.

Then there's Feynriel, who is half-Elf in terms of bloodline but human in appearance.

Anyway, I expect that an Elven Magister would also be subject to a crapton of racism, no matter how successful he was. Tevinter is brutal to Elves. Only a few Elves manage to eke out decent lives there and it's purely by the "Survival of the Fittest/Strong Rule the Weak" mentality. 

The slaver Elf in DAO, for instance.

[Degs29]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Degs29 wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Would an Australian want an "African American" looking character? Wouldn't "African Australian" be slightly more appropriate, or just, you know, "black"?

When it's a choice between being sensitive or being sensible, unfortunately you get a lot of political correctness.

The term "black" is only considered "insensitive" by some Americans. In most of the commonwealth, Australia included, "black" is not considered rude at all.

I'm Canadian, and calling a black guy African-American just seems counter-intuitive and calling a black guy African-Canadian sounds like you're trying too hard.

It's not really a big deal around here, but it seems to be more stigmatized in the states.

I wonder if talk of racism qualifies as an "adult topic" and is therefore just cause for:

"LOCKDOWN!



"

:innocent:

Modifié par Degs29, 07 mars 2013 - 10:49 .

[Althix]

... there are white people in this vid, sharing their opinions. oh noes this show is full of discrimination.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I don't give a damn.

[Commander Kurt]

Plaintiff wrote...

Firky wrote...

You're Aussie too? Do you use the term African Australian? (I'm not being confrontational. I'm curious.)

Not regularly. 

"African American" is a term for someone of African descent who lives in America and identifies as an American. It only seems logical to me to modify the terminology based on where the subject lives.

Sooo... Someone wanted to make a...  Rivaini Fereldan person in the cc?

I hate the term African American. In part because all people of color do not decend from Africa, nor do they live in America, and yet people use when talking about skincolor as if it means "black". In part because if you are sensitive to the word "black", why are you then not sensitive to the term "African American"? One describes the tone of your skin (rather badly) while the other suggests that you are a special, different, kind of American.

Still, I'll use whatever people who are affected by it feel most comfortable with...

[Firky]

ninja'd @secretsandlies^ Nah, the Aussie games media has a relatively strong representation, in terms of diversity, culturally and otherwise. I think it's something we - or at least I - am very proud of.

Modifié par Firky, 07 mars 2013 - 11:01 .

[Firky]

Double post. Sorry.

Modifié par Firky, 07 mars 2013 - 11:02 .

[Dio Demon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

Honestly I just refer everyone as human, who really cares about where they came from or what they look like.

But I would like to see an Elven Tevinter Magister, just to show that elves can be just as ruthless and powerful. Also it would make a great plotline in which you hunt down the magister and try to identify him/her.

Varania, Fenris' sister, was going to be made Danarius' new apprentice, which if that panned out would've probably had her ascend to Magister status. Whether she'd be a ruthless **** or one of the few good Magisters in the Senate is unknown. Even if her selling out Fenris was a cruel act, it doesn't necessarily indicate that she'd be a ruthless **** herself.

Given how fondly she remembers Fenris and the time they spent together, I'd say it was not a decision she made easily.

Then there's Feynriel, who is half-Elf in terms of bloodline but human in appearance.

Anyway, I expect that an Elven Magister would also be subject to a crapton of racism, no matter how successful he was. Tevinter is brutal to Elves. Only a few Elves manage to eke out decent lives there and it's purely by the "Survival of the Fittest/Strong Rule the Weak" mentality. 

The slaver Elf in DAO, for instance.

My opinion is that Tevinter is brutal to anyone the magisters deem weaker than them and the only way to earn any respect is to stand on a pile of bodies killing anyone who gets in your way, or looks at you funny.

But Hadriana was a good example of how a 'weak' mage is and how weak mages are essentially slaves, Danaruis was using her to make Fenris vulnerable.

But I would love to see the implications of Feynriel as a magister, especially so due to the fact of him being a Somni'ari.

[Althix]

but it's still looks rather hypocritical. bunch of white people are talking about minor roles of people with different skin color.

equality? fraternity? yeah right. but thing is that people are not equal, it is not about skin color or stereotypes. somebody is strong, somebody is weak, somebody is handsome, somebody is ugly etc.

some person have power to ignore the law, yet another can suffer by it because that another person don't have a proper connection to people of power or do not have a power of his own.

i find all this trash talks about discrimination is rather hypocritical. and people who are talking about it should first look at the mirror.

people are not equal. they never were, they are not now, and they never will be.

[Nomadiac]

It's Good Game! I'm pleasantly surprised to see this mentioned here.

[TEWR]

My opinion is that Tevinter is brutal to anyone the magisters deem weaker than them and the only way to earn any respect is to stand on a pile of bodies killing anyone who gets in your way, or looks at you funny.

Certainly. I just imagine even an Elf in Tevinter, no matter how brutal, will always just be viewed as inherently weaker then the rest of the Magisters -- save for the few decent ones Tevinter has.

ut Hadriana was a good example of how a 'weak' mage is and how weak mages are essentially slaves, Danaruis was using her to make Fenris vulnerable.

Indeed. Hadriana showed us that apprentices themselves are not free from Tevinter's cruelty. Such cruelty destroyed Hadriana's self-esteem and eventually led her to becoming the very thing that succeeds in Tevinter.

Essentially, Tevinter breeds the Magisters by destroying the Mages' capability to be decent people.

But I would love to see the implications of Feynriel as a magister, especially so due to the fact of him being a Somni'ari.

So would I. I imagine, since he's the first Somniari to survive in 2 Ages, that he'll ascend to Archon and do some good things in Tevinter. We see how he saved a young virgin woman from gangrape when he was on the other side of Thedas, so he's obviously going to be a decent person.

[Foolsfolly]

StElmo wrote...

Here in Australia we have a publicly funded TV station, one of it's programs is called "Good Game" a very entertaining and often level headed program about games.

Link to YT version of show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3RF4_Vd9qI

"Goose" the features reporter did an excellent summary of how racial stereotyping is treated in games.

Apparently someone wanted an african american looking character in DA:O and these forums (the hive mind that they are) blew up with short sighted, conservative "don't change my games" attitude.

It's worth watching for anyone using BSN, as it makes you reflect on how you react to things. I would never be upset at making any game more minority friendly, but even so it's a good food for thought about how to act online (I recently apologized for my post ME3 actions after getting too involved in BSN hive mind and getting carried away all over the net about something I wasn't even initially upset with)

So I hope DA does do this minority inclusion more and more, as EA is quite good with the diversity factor with their BioWare division.

Please don't let me see BSN on public TV as a controversial thing again.

BSN was brought up on television?

Eh, it'll never be brought up for anything good. No one ever points at a forums on television for saying "This is a good place to hang" and of course if they did there'd be an influx of new people and all the existing guys would hate on them for no reason other than they were new. And the enviroment on the site would change to a more hostile one.

Forums... the soul of the internet.

[Firky]

secretsandlies wrote...
but it's still looks rather hypocritical. bunch of white people are talking about minor roles of people with different skin color.

Do you think so?

Knowing some of the people who produce the show (and it's really not just the presenters, by any stretch) I guess I know that the message is pretty genuine.

[Plaintiff]

So... white people aren't allowed to have opinions about minority representation? Their skin colour automatically makes them hypocrites?

[Althix]

be as it may, but from my perspective (as person who don't know people from this show) i find it hypocritical.

and you know what? I never made parallels between real life and the game in terms of discrimination on the basis of one or the other. but i guess this show just poked my nose on this issue.

[Icesong]

The part of the clip you're talking about doesn't show the BSN blowing up, it shows the Gamespot forums.

[Plaintiff]

I don't think you know the definition of "hypocrisy", then. Hypocrisy is when someone acts in a way that goes against the presentation of their ideals and morals. The colour of your skin is irrelevant. People who are white can still care about minority rights and representations, and that's evident throughout history.

'Good Game' is an Australian proggramme, and not a very far-reaching one with an enormous budget. It spoke to experts in Sydney because that's where it's studio is based and those are the people it can afford to contact. If they happen to be white, then that's just how it is. It's not deliberately trying to shut out minority viewpoints.

Being white doesn't make them automatically ignorant of the issue, or mean that they don't/shouldn't care about it. One of the guest speakers is a member of 'Gamers Against Bigotry', and another is the president of the Australian Human Rights Association. They care enough about the issue to join these groups that are actively campaigning for equal rights, but all that is negated by the colour of their skin?

[StElmo]

Plaintiff wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I liked the segment, but was surprised that they used Deus Ex as an example of a racially insensitive product. I thought that overall, it presented a wide variety of Chinese characters. Even if many of them were corrupt or violent, they weren't anymore so than the white characters in Detroit.

Deus Ex has some awful stereotyping. Like the homless black woman speaking *edit*

I don't recall the character, but there's a lot of ambient dialogue in Deus Ex and I recall at least one example of a black woman who probably did have a home speaking very eloquently in the foyer of the the venue where Taggart gives his speech.

The term "Ebonics" is racist in and of itself because it falsely implies that the dialect is hereditary, and spoken exclusively by black people. But simply having a black character use it is not automatically an offensive stereotype, anymore than it is an offensive stereotype when Australian characters say "g'day", "mate" or "crikey".

is it? :S Total Biscuit used it, so I didn't realize it was a faux pas, my bad, apologies to anyone offended!

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 12:07 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Plaintiff wrote...

I liked the segment, but was surprised that they used Deus Ex as an example of a racially insensitive product.

[StElmo]

secretsandlies wrote...

but it's still looks rather hypocritical. bunch of white people are talking about minor roles of people with different skin color.

equality? fraternity? yeah right. but thing is that people are not equal, it is not about skin color or stereotypes. somebody is strong, somebody is weak, somebody is handsome, somebody is ugly etc.

some person have power to ignore the law, yet another can suffer by it because that another person don't have a proper connection to people of power or do not have a power of his own.

i find all this trash talks about discrimination is rather hypocritical. and people who are talking about it should first look at the mirror.

people are not equal. they never were, they are not now, and they never will be.

It's not really hypocritical if those are social science experts and anti bigotry leaders. That doesn't make it hypocritical. You can't conjure up an easily accessible australian social science professor of acertain race just to make your argument more credible.

However, you can conjure up non-stereotypical representations of minorities and other non caucasian in fiction.

[Icesong]

Also, that thread had a series of reponses from Stanley Woo arguing everything that people against diversity now argue.

[StElmo]

Icesong wrote...

The part of the clip you're talking about doesn't show the BSN blowing up, it shows the Gamespot forums.

many internet forums have bad reactions - they showed some BSN logos and stuff so I assumed it happened here too.

[StElmo]

...

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 12:10 .

[Withidread]

Why must a video game take up the social cause of the moment? Why can't a game just be a game?

[StElmo]

Withidread wrote...

Why must a video game take up the social cause of the moment? Why can't a game just be a game?

It's not taking up a social cause, it's simply asking that an industry which is dominated by white men (on the development side of things) should try harder to include minorities and other races other than caucasian in their games to better reflect the consumers in the real world - which in turn will attract more and more people to development from differing backgrounds.

Modifié par StElmo, 07 mars 2013 - 12:14 .