155 réponses à ce sujet

[CSRB]

RedJohn wrote...

CSRB wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

CSRB wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

4- Cabal

-The DoT queen

Stopped taking you seriously here.

What magnific argument you have wrote right there, please, enlighten me more.

Makes me wonder if you've even played the class. Look up Stardusk's or Air Quotes' threads for your 'enlightenment'.

Hardly a convincing argument you've given.

*Sign*

Neither of them are never happy with anything.

And yes, I have played all the characters of this game and I give opinions based on my own experiences and experimentations.

If someone don't know how to play a character is not that the character is bad.

Well I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

[bogsters23]

i have not played a lot of talon games but i would really want that bioware fix the omnibow. i just do not find it interesting to use the cain trip mines as the main damage output.

[RedJohn]

bogsters23 wrote...

i have not played a lot of talon games but i would really want that bioware fix the omnibow. i just do not find it interesting to use the cain trip mines as the main damage output.

Just like Cloak and shot

[taplonaplo]

RedJohn wrote...

taplonaplo wrote...

Nayail wrote...

Talon can kill atlas or prime faster than EDI bot with reegar carbine using all consumables from stealth.

Not true with the all consumable rule, they just pop all thermal clips at once and the atlas is long dead before you get ridof shields. But in general yeah, with good positioning, that thing kills.

And then the next wave a wild atlas appear, edibot has ran out of thermal clips, Talon uses some cain mines, it's super effective 

Never claimed otherwise. If only i had my thermal clips with the Talon...

Cabal/Warlord seem like the most balanced. I have 0 interest in playing with EDI/Jugg again after 1 rounds each. They are good, probably not GI good, but they just bypass some of the basic mechanics which i really don't like. Collector should have melee evolutions, i see no reason why they had to remove them. Talon is probably the best on the right map with no other grenade users. I like the mine laying aspect, but a damage nerf wouldn't be entirely unreasonable.

[NuclearTech76]

taplonaplo wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

taplonaplo wrote...

Nayail wrote...

Talon can kill atlas or prime faster than EDI bot with reegar carbine using all consumables from stealth.

Not true with the all consumable rule, they just pop all thermal clips at once and the atlas is long dead before you get ridof shields. But in general yeah, with good positioning, that thing kills.

And then the next wave a wild atlas appear, edibot has ran out of thermal clips, Talon uses some cain mines, it's super effective 

Never claimed otherwise. If only i had my thermal clips with the Talon...

Cabal/Warlord seem like the most balanced. I have 0 interest in playing with EDI/Jugg again after 1 rounds each. They are good, probably not GI good, but they just bypass some of the basic mechanics which i really don't like. Collector should have melee evolutions, i see no reason why they had to remove them. Talon is probably the best on the right map with no other grenade users. I like the mine laying aspect, but a damage nerf wouldn't be entirely unreasonable.

Maybe on PC the Sexbot could get an advantage over the Talon if the thermal clips don't load on the Merc. On console the Atlas never has to get the mines, you spam them and it's dead in a second maybe less on platinum. Oh yeah and everything around them is dead in about the same amount of time.

RJ you should try a solo speed run with him. Squishy but I bet he would be really effective.

[FlowCytometry]

thoughts before reading: Juggy least powerful? I gotta see this


now: ... ofc someone that only cares about damage and only solos to get max grenades from boxes w/o teammate interference lists it last and cain mine spamming first

I'd take a non-retard Juggy over a Talon in a pug any day of the week.

moving on

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 07 mars 2013 - 08:28 .

[etm125]

Up until yesterday I thought the talon was pretty crap. I tried him once on a random gold and ended up on Condor. Ugh. Jesus I havent had that bad a game in a long tome. Theres not a single flat wall on Condor. Cain mines were sticking off rock at 48 degree angles tripping absolutely nothing at all. Ammo boxes were bugged as usual not hiving any nades so i blew all 5 thermals trying to do something of use to the team. Shelved him with a "Never again"

Then yesterday a level 1 Talon joins my gold lobby and just wrecks house. Came in second only to my spawn nuking scrubby drell adept (lvl 20). I was floored. I sent him a mag about how impressive that was. I tip my hat to him. I now have to lump myself in with the Talon Bashers who need to l2p.

If were just talking power ranking

1. Sexbot (I've discussed this ad nauseum. Shell get te nerf bat)
2. Juggy (not my cup of tea but extremely powerful at what he does)
3. Collector (dose boom booms)
4. Talon (dose mines)
5. Krolord (bananas on low difficulty but suffers on higher due to melee being his bread and butter. Melee and bosses do not mix unless a ramp is involved. Plus he just bores me)
6. Cabal (My favorite! But nowhere near the power levels of the other kits. Just a great great kit with tools that work with smart gameplay. Shield boost, TP dodge and blades? Yes please. I hope she stays under the radar)

[taplonaplo]

FlowCytometry wrote...

thoughts before reading: Juggy least powerful? I gotta see this


now: ... ofc someone that only cares about damage and only solos to get max grenades from boxes w/o teammate interference lists it last and cain mine spamming first

I'd take a non-retard Juggy over a Talon in a pug any day of the week.

moving on

Sure i'd rather have a juggy than a squshy pug, but i'd rather not be the juggernaut myself and offload the decoy role to someone else and kill **** instead - and the other kits are better at that.

[mijames1]

I bet cain mines are going to get a slight nerf. Right now if specced right (With the right amps/gear) a single mine can do over 8000 damage against armor.

[stysiaq]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

That's why Cain mines should get a nerf and bow should get a good buff.

Cain mines are kind of infinite Cobra missles. A broken skill that reduces other 2 powers to Cain Mines supplier.

Yes because he would be totally useable then with his ****** poor health and shields. The only thing whatsoever the character has is the damage from those mines, if they touch that he's done.

They should nerf Cain Mines, but not in the terms of damage, and buff the bow significantly.

Unfortunately the proper nerf "would require a patch", that means it will never happen.

The damage from the bow is ok when you equip yourself for full melee damage and power damage passive + power amps. One AP heavy melee, at least with my build (I try to use the bow regardless of it's state atm) kills a Gold Dragoon. The same goes  for Concussive Shot + any mook, one charged melee with consumables kills or "almost kills" a Nemesis, Marauder, Centurion etc. on Gold.

The thing is you can do much more and get killstreaks with moronic Cain Mine spam.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

stysiaq wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

That's why Cain mines should get a nerf and bow should get a good buff.

Cain mines are kind of infinite Cobra missles. A broken skill that reduces other 2 powers to Cain Mines supplier.

Yes because he would be totally useable then with his ****** poor health and shields. The only thing whatsoever the character has is the damage from those mines, if they touch that he's done.

They should nerf Cain Mines, but not in the terms of damage, and buff the bow significantly.

Unfortunately the proper nerf "would require a patch", that means it will never happen.

The damage from the bow is ok when you equip yourself for full melee damage and power damage passive + power amps. One AP heavy melee, at least with my build (I try to use the bow regardless of it's state atm) kills a Gold Dragoon. The same goes  for Concussive Shot + any mook, one charged melee with consumables kills or "almost kills" a Nemesis, Marauder, Centurion etc. on Gold.

The thing is you can do much more and get killstreaks with moronic Cain Mine spam.

Were you hosting?  I found a huge discrepancy between host damage and off-host damage.

[billy the squid]

If the Juggernaut could deal heavy damage quickly it would be mind numbingly OP. Regardless of it's slow speed. I think it's very good at what it's designed to do. Tank. It's a balanced kit really. I use the PPR, might try the Spitfire when it gets buffed or I get it lvld.

[bogsters23]

RedJohn wrote...

bogsters23 wrote...

i have not played a lot of talon games but i would really want that bioware fix the omnibow. i just do not find it interesting to use the cain trip mines as the main damage output.

Just like Cloak and shot

i'm more of grenadier and detonate guy.  

[ReddWolfwood1]

After all the complaining about the talon i expected to hate him.However i was very pleased with him. I put all points into mines, nothing in bows, except for concussion bows to help teammates get explosions.

I cant make a list of my favs yet cuz i dont have the cabal yet, but i am very happy with all the characters. BW's MP team did an outstanding job

[stysiaq]

@Jack

complete build

note that I used probably the best possible setup to maximize bow damage (therefore I look forward to buffs) . I still use mines, but I try to use them as if I was really setting up traps.

with AP rounds I was killing Dragoons on gold with one charged melee, off-host if I remember correctly.

I don't go for both arrows, because of the "no thermal" bug.

My previous build was Concussive Arrows only, it worked okay against infantry. I'd say it's even better than AP arrows, because you get 3 charges instead of 2 (AP shots still can be used against regular mooks, but you won't get Concussive Arrows hilarity).

Of course I'm not saying here that the bow is a wonderful weapon, it's just not as horrible as everyone claim it to be, and I'm filled with good will. The bug that makes the Talon rethink his life before actually shooting is still there. The moronic tracking from behind the cover ('LOL I'll shoot the walls to the right instead') is still there.

and of course there are Cain Mines that are the best when spammed like hell, because they tend to stick to the walls at bizzare angles if it's not a flat wall.

[MetalDeggial]

For me, it goes like this:

1. Cabal: well rounded, insanely fast, crowd control for days, amazing teleports, huge damage output, wicked cool melee and awesome turian passives.
2. AIU: no weaknesses, which makes her boring to play. That is her only fault and drops her one level.
3. Juggernaut: soul stealing and taking hits for days without being shield gated, while also being able to carry any weapon you'd possibly like. Can't be sync-killed, but the slow movement speed requires a ton of patience and good knowledge of spawns in larger maps.
4. Collector: he's alright. Can do a ton of damage with Warp Rounds and a PPR, but I like to use his Sphere more for the sake of novelty, instead of DC. Ascension Mode is ass.
5. Talon: works great as a camping character. Trivializes everything on Platinum except bubbled Praetorians and jumping Banshees. Doesn't work at all with a rushing mindset, which makes this guy pretty damn useless with good teammates. Omni-Bow is garbage, but Concussive Arrows are ok.
6. Warlord: you have to run around the stage like a sissy in fear of getting stabbed in the gut by a puny Phantom. For shame. Sync-kills ruin an otherwise fun melee character. It would've been my number 1 with sync-kill immunity, and prolly become my favorite character. What a disappointment. He's nowhere near invincible on Gold and Platinum to think he would be cheap with that immunity, but Biower and BSN think otherwise. Can't get Rage going for crap with good teammates playing as grenadiers, snipers, using Harriers, Drell, etc.

Modifié par MetalDeggial, 07 mars 2013 - 10:02 .

[stysiaq]

Also, the regular melee attack sucks major balls. Charged shots specced for the grenade capacity alternatives work fine and with enough practice you'll get your 50 melee kills medal on gold.

The Cain nerf I'd be happy with (on top of buffing the bow significantly) would be making it consume 2 grenades instead of 1. That wouldn't cripple the way I think this class was supposed to be played (setting the mines in chokepoints on your sides/behind you, so the enemies can't flank you) and would redeem the now underpowered intended core mechanic.

I also would like the 4th mine NOT to detonate the first one, just disable it. In this case, the 1 mine/power usage could stay. Both nerfs won't happen though, they lay in the patch area.

I love getting hacks/4 devices with the Talon, for example on Ghost. I watch one side and mine all the doorways out of my sight. I love the idea of a powerful trap that gives you kills on the other side of the map while you hunt down some other enemies with your arrows. But right now you are better off with pressing 1 repeatedly under some Atlas/Prime feet. 3 mines - nothing happens, then BOOM BOOM BOOM lol killstreak.

[Lord Rosario]

I love the collector. Was hoping no one would figure out how epic a character it is, but now that there is a RedJohn post about it, I might be seeing more of them. I've still yet to see someone else play him well, always dropping dead quite quickly because they don't know what they are doing. It is one of my favorites to play as though, Juggernaut being my second favorite.

Also, the Collector doesn't have Reave. It has Dark Channel.

[Xeraphas]

Cabal is a bit buggy. Her powers are decent but they are inaccurate. And I am not sure her poison damage always does damage over time like it is supposed to do.

Juggernaut looks good on paper but in practice he tends to drop almost as fast as the Krogan warlord. Two things work against him to a great negative effect. He struggles against being swarmed yet has little ability to deal with a horde of enemies so his survivability is not that great despite his stats on paper. This is made worse by the fact that ENEMIES tend to focus upon this character and the warlord MORE than others. Secondly, is he does not have much ability to answer to being swarmed or horded. His light melee does some area damage but not enough to deal with critical situations, maybe if it had a chance to stagger or stun as well then it would be far more useful. And none of his powers are that great at controlling crowds. Ideally the pulse cannon should be BUT, it has a slow recharge and a slow rate of fire so it has very limited usefulness against crowds, especially heavy crowds. For a weapon platform too, he has very little weapon damage bonuses which actually makes him weaker than other characters despite the sync kill immunity.  Juggernaut heavy melee is also buggy in the sense it is hard to aim it accurately.  This can be a costly negative factor in crucial situations.  He has a very narrow window of hit for heavy melee though it has some decent range.  Therefore it really needs a bit of improvement.  Even close targets may take multiple tries to grab in a heavy melee and that is time you can not afford to lose.

Warlord has the same weaknesses as the Juggernaut. Enemies tend to focus on him more. He has little in the way of ranged damage. And his area attack hammer skill, the electric one, is not always very accurate. Enemies in range do not always get staggered, take damage, or even hit at all even though they should be. Plus he is prone to sync kill attacks. One major reason for this is, his size. His size makes it even harder to see some dangerous units that get to close. This coupled with his ineffective inaccurate wide area attack is a dangerous formula for disaster for this character. Plus, he is honestly, not all that much stronger than other krogans nor is he that significantly larger than other krogans.

Talon is a great character if played right but like all the new characters there are some flaws or perhaps bugs in the works. If you do not spec health, he is essentially a glass character and gets downed to easy. His bow does not fire at a very good rate of fire nor does it do that great of damage. It's accuracy is questionable at best. And the snipe heavy melee attack is quirky in that it does not always fire even if you hit it twice like you are supposed to do. Not only that, but the heavy melee takes a bit too long and forces the talon to expose himself to danger longer than he should have to relative to the damage reduction skills he lacks and his health stats. They should up the damage a bit and the rate of fire. And accuracy or give it some other status skill to make it an attractive skill to spec up. The concussive arrows and armor piercing arrows claim to have more than one shot per grenade used and a status ammo counter but I have not seen it. This maybe a false claim but I have seen it posted as such.

Collector is a great character I agree, BUT, he has a horribly slow recharge time and his recharge powers are interconnected. If you use one power then all powers need time to recharge. The only exception is when you have the swarmers ready to fire but to call your 3 swarmers to use counts toward all powers as recharge. His ascension mode is a bit lacking in motivation to use since it increases damage so much and at such a relatively little damage bonus.

Edi is a nice character as well. She is fast and one of the best melee and shotgun combo characters if not the best available. What she lacks is any range threat. And sometimes her melee attacks miss the mark which puts her in more jeopardy. Also of note, is her repair matrix does not ALWAYS grant revive if downed. I have seen it not work at least 5 times and at least 3 times in a row before. That, and I feel like the damage she receives is increased or her health stats or dr lowered when she has repair matrix active. I have gone down almost as fast as a low health specced talon or a volus before.

One major drawback I notice in general are LIMITATIONS BW forces upon players or characters. Such as seen with the Enemy preference cheat for close calls. If you notice, 9 times in 10 it goes in favor of enemies even if you are sure you were missed by a mile. Another major limitation that severely effects character choices are the limits powers have for damage. Why in the world they claim explosion powers can only effect up to 3 characters is just bull malarky. It limits usefulness and other powers have no limits on how many targets they can hit. When BW increases enemy spawn budgets like they clearly have over the last few months, then a power attribute like this is practically necessary. The same limitation is seen on some weapons where only 3 targets can be effected. It should be based upon how close enemies are to whatever power or weapon is being used. If those artificial limits were removed the game would be a lot more fun and involve more strategy and strategy options. Plus it would balance out many characters and weapons alot more since so many are limited by this artificial element yet others do not have such a thing at all. Case in point is how much, how wide, and how many targets a power like flamer can inflict the hurt upon versus say the pheonix guys smash attack. Anymore too, grenades can do more damage and in a wider area and more reliably (meaning it does not inexplicably miss every 8th time used like missiles do) than missiles do. They seem to have shrunk the area of effect of missiles and chances to hit and number of targets it can hit so much that grenades and some powers can now outperform missile use regularly.

Modifié par Xeraphas, 07 mars 2013 - 10:37 .

[Xeraphas]

Talon's cain does not always get triggered, so maybe it is a bit buggy. I have seen enemies walk right through his trip laser line and not set it off. I have seen other state this in other posts as well.

[holdenagincourt]

RedJohn wrote...

*Sign*

Neither of them are never happy with anything.

[Miniditka77]

MetalDeggial wrote...

For me, it goes like this:

6. Warlord: you have to run around the stage like a sissy in fear of getting stabbed in the gut by a puny Phantom. For shame. Sync-kills ruin an otherwise fun melee character. It would've been my number 1 with sync-kill immunity, and prolly become my favorite character. What a disappointment. He's nowhere near invincible on Gold and Platinum to think he would be cheap with that immunity, but Biower and BSN think otherwise. Can't get Rage going for crap with good teammates playing as grenadiers, snipers, using Harriers, Drell, etc.

Huh?  I salivate when my Warlord sees Phantoms.  I have never not OHK-ed a Phantom (Gold) with Biotic Hammer.  I have only gotten sync-killed by a Phantom once, and that was when my teammate revived me in between two Atlases who had me physically blocked, and she got me before I could pull out a Cobra.  Now Banshees and Praetorians are another matter - Warlord has to be wary of them, especially Praetorians.

[Oseye]

I just run the talon with an acolyte to strip sheilds, the mine takes care of everything else.

[GunWraith]

I like the Talon, but I don't like trying to reset my binds at the start of every map. I did my 10 extractions with him and shelved him. Now that BW has confirmed that there is no new patch planned to fix ANYTHING, I doubt I will play him ever again. I simply am not going to edit coalesced and chance a ban.

[taplonaplo]

Miniditka77 wrote...
Huh?  I salivate when my Warlord sees Phantoms.  I have never not OHK-ed a Phantom (Gold) with Biotic Hammer.  I have only gotten sync-killed by a Phantom once, and that was when my teammate revived me in between two Atlases who had me physically blocked, and she got me before I could pull out a Cobra.  Now Banshees and Praetorians are another matter - Warlord has to be wary of them, especially Praetorians.

The issue is when the phantom is not alone. If you are locked onto the dragoon next to her you are ****ed. The animations are slow as balls, and the lack of dodge equals one krogan with a sword through the stomach. Banshees shouldn't be a problem, the visual clue is pretty obvious when it's running or smashy-smashy time.