110 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonageman]

I would like to preface this by saying that I liked the game so much that I'm playing concurrently on console and PC and bought all the DLC for both platforms.

That being said... just want to vent some annoyances... maybe the devs are listening... maybe they're not...

This shouldn't have any spoilers...

1) Repetitive tactics.

A lot of fights felt the same.  Band of hummanoids come and try to smack the party around.  The archers and mages stay back, the melee runs up and beats on you.  Happens over and over and over again.  It's not so bad when it's intertwined with some kind of story event.  When you're in one location and going from area to area and you keep getting attacked over and over again, and it's same melee-archer-mage combo, it just gets boring.

2) Too many "Trash Mobs".

Kind of related to the first point, there is just too much random killing of the same monsters over and over again.  I know everyone plays WoW and that it has to have influenced the design of this game to a certain extent, but does a single player experience really need this?  The game works the best when it's revealing secrets or story points to you.  It works the worst when you know one part of the story, you know where the next part gets revealed, but you have to fight the same monster over and over again 37 times before you get there.  The first few times builds the tension... after that you're just like "come on already I just want to know what happens next".

3) Reptitive Abilities.

Related to the top two.  Do I have to get pinned to the ground four times every fight?  Do I have to get stunned a dozen times every fight?  Do I have to get knocked over again and again?  The worst thing you can do to a player is make them watch your game instead of play it.  Worse than that is constantly, repetitvely, and for nothing that actually advances the story, make them watch the character they're playing lie there helpless.  I get that you can switch out to other characters when this happens, but it becomes awkward and can mess up all the finely tuned tactics the game lets you use.  Yes I get that you can do things in the game to counter these abilities, but I want to play Dragon Age, not rock paper scissors.  Using them once in a while for dramatic effect works.  Having someone unable to control their character half a dozen times every fight is just annoying.

4) Obvious Borrowing.

I've read George R. R. Martin too.  Bioware is good enough at telling stories and making games that they don't need to steal this many plot devices from him.  Felt a little robbed every time that popped up...

5) Loot.

I hate what Blizzard has done to RPG's.  In classical mythology, if the hero finds a sword it's a super awesome event that changes the story.  Thesesus, King Arthur, Perseus, Beowulf, Roland, etc.  More modern stories also feature this, like Elric's sword and Bilbo's dagger.  Ever since Diablo, game designers think it's fun to fill up the player's bags with crap (they do this at E3 as well ) .  Bioware managed to avoid this in BG1+2 for the most part.  Why is this done in Dragon Age?  Why is it heroic to walk around with a bag of iron daggers to sell?  The constant looting of bodies is tedious... can't we do away with this in our games?

6) Crafting.

Crafting seemed like an afterthought.  I can make potions, traps (random anyone?), and poisons.  Nothing else.  What about my own armor?  Or magical wands?  Or do my own enchanting?  Train horses?  Make shoes?  There are dozens of things that would have been more interesting than the three things they present in the game.  They also seemed completely inconsequential to actually getting anything done.  After so many games have had robust crafting systems (bake your own bread from scratch in UO anyone?), DA's were really, really lame.

7) Cutscenes.

The cutscenes were awesome.  There were some very frustrating moments though where I detect a trap, then hit a cutscene, and then my party is now standing on the traps when the cut scene ends.  There were other instances of this where my party wasn't where I wanted it to be or should have been after the cutscene.  I get sometimes I'm supposed to be ambushed, and those scenes were fine.  But often a cutscene would put my party somewhere where they just shouldn't have been.  It made a game with such robust ability to program the AI of my party very frustrating at times as all my careful strategy flies right out the window.

8) Why doesn't the main character have a voice?

Bioware did this magnificently in Mass Effect.  Why couldn't they do this in DA?  The conversations in Mass Effect were probably some of the best ever in an RPG.  Come on Bioware... don't take a step forward with one game, and a step back with the next.  That's what Blizzard does and they suck.

As I said before, I really love DA, I think it's a great game and I see myself replaying it multiple times.  But I think it shies away from true greatness because it fails to leave these tired old problems left over or borrowed from other games behind, and truly innovate into a new kind of RPG experience. 

It came so close... what a pity...

Modifié par dragonageman, 13 janvier 2010 - 03:14 .

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

About your #5 i have to disagree. Reason is that everyone will not have a super shiny enchanted weapon on them if they did it wouldn't be very logical since enchanted weapons are suppposed to be unique and hard to find.

[dragonageman]

Solos, that's my point exactly. So instead of me constantly filling up my packs with crap all the time, let me just find gold or jewels all the time. Then when it's good for the story or my character has reached a place where it's appropriate, let me find some really cool weapon.

[ransompendragon]

I misread #5 then because most of what my party wears is scraped up off of bodies since I hardly ever have any money and usually don't have a rogue with high enough lock pick with me.



I agree with #2 especially since my time for playing is really limited. (And I guess I am slow--I have 80 hrs on my first play through and I started around Thanksgiving--and bought the game on release day).



Anyway, today I was thinking about all the good that is DA:O -- especially the fact that it is party based. Really glad to see that as I am tired of single character single player games! (But they beat no RPGs at all)



cheers

[LadyDrusilla]

Good idea for a thread, mind if I add a few things I found annoying? Firsr my reponse to your points as I don't necessarily agree with them. Personal opinion, of course.

1) Combat in actuality is not that varied, so this didn't bother me much. I see what you mean though, and sympathise.
2) I liked wading through scores of enemies personally, made me feel pretty.
3) Agreed.
4) Not familiar with the author you cite, there are some familiar aspect but I put it down to a genre thing.
5) It added realism for me, it seemed accurate to be picking up what the mobs actually had rather than conveniently recieving their yearly salary.
6) Do you have any idea how long it takes to make a dagger or sword, let alone full plate? Not to mention how much skill. It is not just something you can do 'on the side' while adventuring. My gothic plate harness took around 200 hours to construct, my maximilian plate harness nearly triple that. My leahter lamellar hauberk took around 40 hours. While I agree with you about crafting not being particularly exciting, I think it is at least accurate in terms of what an adventurer could manage.
In my opinion the very best craft system of any game was that of SWG, with its seperate qualities for raw materials. Nothing liek spending a month obtaining the very finest materials from accross the galaxy and making a suit of armour of such quality it became famous and sold for absurd sums of money.

My issues:

Duel wield: The most ineffectual fighting form there is. Two swords are impossible to duel wield effectively. You can duel wield a sword and dagger, but it is only effective in a duel, not in a combat environment. If you do not have a shield you are better of keeping your off hand free to grapple with.

Two handed weapons: They are not heavy and slow. An average two handed sword might weigh 3-5kgs and is well balanced. The downside of two handed weapons is you can not grapple or carry a shield, the up side is you have longer reach and can lop the pointy bits off polearms.

Axes crit, maces penetrate armour. This should be reversed. As discussed in another thread, axes penetrate armour. Maces do not, they tend to crush it. Even if they do not actually damage the armour much, even plate struggles to disperse the impact of a good mace blow, resulting in the shock being transferred to the wearer. Result, depending on the blow, could be merely bruises or broken ribs or even death.

There are some other little things I dislike, but I can't remember them at the moment. Bear in mind I'm on my 5th run through the game, have all DLC and am currently making a silk replica of Anoras dress. I love this game.

Modifié par LadyDrusilla, 13 janvier 2010 - 02:56 .

[Darth Obvious]

dragonageman wrote...

5) Loot.

I hate what Blizzard has done to RPG's.  In classical mythology, if the hero finds a sword it's a super awesome event that changes the story.  Thesesus, King Arthur, Perseus, Beowulf, Roland, etc.  More modern stories also feature this, like Elric's sword and Bilbo's dagger.  Ever since Diablo, game designers think it's fun to fill up the player's bags with crap (they do this at E3 as well ) .  Bioware managed to avoid this in BG1+2 for the most part.  Why is this done in Dragon Age?  Why is it heroic to walk around with a bag of iron daggers to sell?  The constant looting of bodies is tedious... can't we do away with this in our games?

6) Crafting.

Crafting seemed like an afterthought.  I can make potions, traps (random anyone?), and poisons.  Nothing else.  What about my own armor?  Or magical wands?  Or do my own enchanting?  Train horses?  Make shoes?  There are dozens of things that would have been more interesting than the three things they present in the game.  They also seemed completely inconsequential to actually getting anything done.  After so many games have had robust crafting systems (bake your own bread from scratch in UO anyone?), DA's were really, really lame.

Definitely agree on these two.

[dragonageman]

LadyDrusilla wrote...

1) Combat in actuality is not that varied, so this didn't bother me much. I see what you mean though, and sympathise.
2) I liked wading through scores of enemies personally, made me feel pretty.
3) Agreed.
4) Not familiar with the author you cite, there are some familiar aspect but I put it down to a genre thing.
5) It added realism for me, it seemed accurate to be picking up what the mobs actually had rather than conveniently recieving their yearly salary.
6) Do you have any idea how long it takes to make a dagger or sword, let alone full plate? Not to mention how much skill. It is not just something you can do 'on the side' while adventuring. My gothic plate harness took around 200 hours to construct, my maximilian plate harness nearly triple that. My leahter lamellar hauberk took around 40 hours. While I agree with you about crafting not being particularly exciting, I think it is at least accurate in terms of what an adventurer could manage.
In my opinion the very best craft system of any game was that of SWG, with its seperate qualities for raw materials. Nothing liek spending a month obtaining the very finest materials from accross the galaxy and making a suit of armour of such quality it became famous and sold for absurd sums of money.

Video Games can either be good games, or good simulators, but it takes a truly masterful attempt to make one that is both.  Flight Simulator is the best example of this.  Ultra realistic to the point that it's just as boring and tedious as flying a real plane.

I would much rather they made a good game that had the feel of medieval combat.  Making a medieval battle similator would be a totally different game (and probably a lot more fun than flight simulator).  I don't think it's within the scope of what most game designers intend.

[Darth Obvious]

LadyDrusilla wrote...

Good idea for a thread, mind if I add a few things I found annoying?

Duel wield: The most ineffectual fighting form there is. Two swords are impossible to duel wield effectively. You can duel wield a sword and dagger, but it is only effective in a duel, not in a combat environment. If you do not have a shield you are better of keeping your off hand free to grapple with.

Very true. This is one area where fantasy has completely obscured realism. It may trace its origin to D&D...

Two handed weapons: They are not heavy and slow. An average two handed sword might weigh 3-5kgs and is well balanced.

Indeed. I've owned over a dozen modern performance reproductions of medieval sword types, and most of them are right around 3 lbs.. German longswords tend to have 37"+ blades with extra long handles (11"+), much like the appearance of the two-handed swords in the game (the skinnier ones, anyway). Check youtube for German longsword to see just how fast they really are.

The labeling of the swords incorrectly has always bothered me as well, which may also trace its origin to D&D. They always had longswords and bastard swords mixed up:

Longswords are... you guessed it.... LONG! Italian longswords usually had around blades of around 35"+, the Germans around 37"+, and the Danish were known to use ones even longer than that (40"+!).

Bastard swords, on the other hand, typically have blade lengths more akin to a single-hander (30-33"), but with a longer handle for adding a second hand. The "longswords" in DA are actually what the modern experts would call bastard swords.

Axes crit, maces penetrate armour. This should be reversed. As discussed in another thread, axes penetrate armour. Maces do not, they tend to crush it. Even if they do not actually damage the armour much, even plate struggles to disperse the impact of a good mace blow, resulting in the shock being transferred to the wearer. Result, depending on the blow, could be merely bruises or broken ribs or even death.

Or denting an armor plate enough in a key area to disable a joint.

[WarlordThor]

dragonageman wrote...

Solos, that's my point exactly. So instead of me constantly filling up my packs with crap all the time, let me just find gold or jewels all the time. Then when it's good for the story or my character has reached a place where it's appropriate, let me find some really cool weapon.

I'm not sure if you realize this bud, but you could just not pick up anything but what you think is good...

I for one think there is much too little loot. I would love a game where ever creature dropped exactly what it was wearing and using to fight. It is an added facet of realism that many do enjoy.

Just like if you were a hero in reality, you would be faced with a world mostly full of junk. But by sifting through it you would find some awesome things to take with you.

[gotthammer]

re:# 1

hmm. I was ok w/ the combat.

re:# 2

not enough 'trash mobs', IMHO. I mean, I was looking forward to more 'massive'/'epic' fights, and not just w/ big 'bosses' and the sort. IMHO, few things say 'Epic' than fighting against really large, numerical odds (e.g., one of the most epic space operas, IMHO, is Legend of the Galactic Heroes, where, at one point, each of the 2 opposing factions had more than 100,000 ships in a single engagement.)

re: #3

Well, it's the system. While I'm not necessarily happy w/ many of the RPG systems used, it's better than nothing. I personally prefer 'grittier' stuff like WFRP or BRP (e.g., you got hit by a crossbow bolt *rolls* *checks for critical* *critical* *checks table* ooh...my character's blind and is slowly bleeding to death...or something like that ).

re: #4

Nothing's really 'original' anymore. I mean, if it works...why not? I wish they could have 'borrowed' more from some other stuff I like. DA:O, IMHO, didn't do too well in regard to 'atmosphere' (in feel and visually)...they could have done to borrow some more from Warhammer Fantasy (not WHFB, but more WFRP or Mordheim), methinks, for the 'dark' bits (or from the Witcher').

re: #5

Agreed, for the most part. One thing I particularly didn't like in many games was the abundance of magical items. I mean in some settings, that's a given (Forgotten Realms comes to mind), but it would be nicer if magical stuff were rarer (BUT more potent, I guess). I don't mind looting corpses, tho'.

re: #6

Crafting was ok. Then again, I was never really into crafting stuff (in single player CRPGs, pen and paper RPGs, and even MMORPGs ). As for the crafting of weapons/armor: I agree w/ one of the above posters as far as the amount of time involved in such a process. I was actually amused w/ how fast one item, from one of the DLCs, was forged...right before your character's eyes, too. Having a smith/armorer do it for you, would be nice, tho' (provided it isn't instantaneous forging, I guess? Maybe finish a quest or travel to several locations first?)

re: #7

Agreed. I wish there were more cutscenes, tho'. (preferrably more pre-rendered stuff...)

re: #8

I was fine that my character was silent (i actually didn't like the 'noises' he made during combat...esp. the oft complained about 'ladder' comment). IMHO, DA:O and ME both had different feels, anyway. In ME, having a character w/ voice felt spot on, particularly since the entire game had a 'cinematic' feel to it. DA:O, on the other hand, was more like some of the older CRPGs.

I wouldn't mind it if they had given my PC a voice, but I'm fine with it as is and don't consider it a 'step backward'.

That and wasn't one of the reasons time/budget constraints? I mean, the amount of voiced dialogue throughout the game kinda makes up for the lack of a voiced PC, IMHO.

[akkaze]

Very interesting thoughts. Here're mine.

#1 Absolutely. Then again, it's a design choice isn't it. I happen to enjoy tactical BG-style rpgs more than actiony console-style ones. In this case, Bioware went for the latter. Maybe I'm ill-informed but my feeling is generally an actiony rpg is always going to end up being a bit (imo, too) samey in the combat dept. I think once you pare down your magic system, and do away with the notion of "combat rounds", there's going to be a limit to the combatual/tactical variation you can inject. ... As I say that tho, I think of the combat in Mass Effect. Different style of game of course, but I didn't find the combat repetitive in that. So maybe I should take it all back.

#2 Yes maybe you're right here. Thinking about it, one thing that makes the combat samey is the enemies don't really vary a whole lot in tactics or abilities. You can't quite get away with a "one size fits all" approach to combats - but almost. I find myself wishing more combats were "set pieces" like [minor minor spoiler ] one of the ambushes that occurs at one point.

2) I liked wading through scores of enemies personally, made me feel pretty.

Yes I can relate. There is definitely a place for allowing the PC to feel "godlike". Some balance though would work better I think.

#4 Doesn't bother me, personally. A lot of the best art is "theft", go for broke I say. As a whole, I found DAO original, creative, authentic - I'm happy.

#5 As with #1 above, it's partly a matter of personal choice. I have to say, generally speaking I enjoy so-called "low-magic" settings myself, where, as you say, even a minor magic item is a major find. I used to think this was because low-magic settings worked better as models of our real world and so were conducive to more interesting and insightful stories blah blah. I'm not sure now. DAO is "high-magic" but it treats of plenty of real-world concerns and in considerable depth compared to most other rpgs (slavery, institutional religion and so on). As far as the mundane items part is concerned though, yeah, I could do without that. It's frankly just plain tedious doing inventory management so you can collect enough common items to make enough cash to buy the next uberblade. Yech, skip it.

#6 I understand crafting is a highly developed aspect of many rpgs these days. Myself, I haven't played a lot of those rpgs. I've generally found crafting a bit like inventory management - a lot of messing around for limited gain. I'm prepared to accept there are games "out there" that make crafting interesting. I just haven't met them yet. For myself then, I thought the DAO system was fine. Easy to understand, optional, effective when used.

#8 Interested to read peoples thoughts on this one. For myself, I can't say I "missed" the PC voice, at least after a few minutes playing. I'm undecided if it would add to the story. The vocal styles you choose for your char at generation? I'm often surprised at the things my PC says when given orders because it doesn't sound like my character concept at all. And then there is the issue of origin stories. A dwarf shouldn't talk like an elf PC; and a noble shouldn't talk like a commoner. ME had a girl and a boy voice but DA would probably have to have one for each origin, really, to add to the storytelling and not detract from it. That is a lot of dialog! Technical details aside though, I'm undecided on this one. I'll just repeat, I didn't find myself missing it.

Re DAO coming close but no cigar. Well, I think they tried something a bit different with Dragon Age. The way I see it, in a world awash with MMOs (which I have no interest in), they tried to make a SP rpg which was story- and setting-heavy. They didn't end up with a mind-blowing or mind-blowingly original rpg engine, that's true. The statistical/rules side of it, traditionally a big concern for rpgamers, is kind of Duplo block. And I think they probably did miss an opportunity to make the combats themselves "good story" (something I feel games like the BG series did do, with their tactical variety etc). But, if their objective was to try and craft a real -roleplaying- experience, in the sense of interactive fiction where the fiction is taken seriously as well as just the interaction part, I think they did an amazing job.

I won't claim DAO invented a subgenre or anything, but I'm increasingly uncomfortable with holding up DAO in a direct comparison to games like NWN and BG. I think it is a different approach to rp games, with it's own strengths and weaknesses.

On the other hand, it's possible I'm just too besotted with it to see clearly.

Modifié par akkaze, 13 janvier 2010 - 04:05 .

[Darth Obvious]

dragonageman wrote...

8) Why doesn't the main character have a voice?

Bioware did this magnificently in Mass Effect.  Why couldn't they do this in DA?  The conversations in Mass Effect were probably some of the best ever in an RPG.  Come on Bioware... don't take a step forward with one game, and a step back with the next.  That's what Blizzard does and they suck.

Yeah, I don't know how I missed this the first time I read this thread...

I agree wholeheartedly about the voice. Considering how amazing it was in Mass Effect, I was surprised that they didn't do this with Dragon Age, ESPECIALLY when they make it seem like your character is going to have a voice during character creation. WTF?

[Demonic Spoon]

1) Repetitive tactics

...What? In my experience, DA:O does an excellent job of removing this. Even among generic humanoid groups, you have fights with multiple mages and melee, archery emphasis, or melee emphasis. Beyond that, a huge percentage of what you fight in the game isn't even humanoid.

2) Too many "Trash Mobs".

It really depends. There are some parts where I felt this, but generally I felt like the areas and fights made sense and were interesting.

3) Reptitive Abilities.

You're not complaining about "repetitive abilities", you're complaining about getting stunned in various ways. About 'watching the game instead of playing it'...what? Only the dragon's roar will realistically stun your party for more than a split second.

5) Loot.

Well, because there's so many possible ways to equip a character, loot has to be somewhat plentiful. Less 'normal' loot, though, would be nice.

6) Crafting.

Magical wands would be pretty damn pointless. Making armor is a long, intensive, expensive process. The idea of having armor/weapon crafting in DA:O is ****ing stupid, because it would require a character on a desperate, time-sensitive mission to spend huge amounts of time sitting around a forge. That makes no sense.

They aren't inconsequential at all. Traps, used properly, are a -very- handy way to win a tough fight. Poisons are AMAZING. Herbalism...well I don't think I need to explain why this is great.

8) Why doesn't the main character have a voice?

That would more than double the amount of voice acting needed for the game, and that's assuming you only had one voice per gender. As far as I know, the character in Mass Effect is created -for- you, which is not true in DAO

[Shadowwot]

Actually I disagree with almost all of those points. I thought that DAO was possibly the greatest CRPG I've ever played and I've been playing them since the 80's. I remember getting my fair share of crap loot in M&M, Wizardry, Ultima, Fallout, and every other RPG. Same with tedious mobs and every issue you mentioned. I'm not saying that more couldn't be done - but these are things that every RPG faces not just this one.



As for the GRRM commend - My belief that I will ever read Book 5 keeps diminishing with every passing year so I'll take what I can get.

[GodSaveStrawberryJam]

Personally, I hated the voice of the main character in Mass Effect, and would have chosen not to use it if I was given the option.

[Dick Delaware]

dragonageman wrote...

4) Obvious Borrowing.

I've read George R. R. Martin too.  Bioware is good enough at telling stories and making games that they don't need to steal this many plot devices from him.  Felt a little robbed every time that popped up...

I don't see much ripping off of GRRM. Sure, there's your scheming nobles, a civil war, and most of the players have a somewhat grey morality, but I don't see the obvious borrowing that you mentioned. Most of your other gripes with the game seem kind of inconsequential, actually.

I've whinged about it time and time again, and I'll do it again - the biggest weakness in DA:O was the lack of a convincing antagonist. I wish when we went over to collect the treaties, we would have found out evidence of a possible darkspawn conspiracy, for example - would have made them much more intelligent, devious and menacing. As it is, when you're collecting treaties, it's basically a bunch of really bad, but isolated events occuring (with the possible exception of The Deep Roads, where the darkspawn actually ARE pretty damn scary).

However, I'm hopeful that this gripe will be fixed with the upcoming expansion. It promises to explain more about the nature of the darkspawn and has an actual schemer plotting against you, who himself isn't a vague manifestation of "pure evil" like the Archdemon, whatever the hell that means.

Gameplay-wise, I'd like to see less overpowered mages. They are clearly very, very strong and it would be nicer for warriors and rogues to have maybe a few more stunning/CC abilities up their sleeves as well. Also, in the skill descriptions, some numbers please. A little too vague.  For instance, the Assassin's Exploit Weakness talent:

"A keen eye and a killer instinct help the assassin exploit a target’s weak points. During a successful backstab attack, the assassin gains additional damage based on cunning."

How much additional damage? It's unnecessarily vague, because you really don't know HOW beneficial this talent is. Almost every description of various talents/spells is like this. It would be a very helpful fix to just throw some numbers in there.

Also, I'd like to see a few more specializations, but the expansion will probably have that covered too.

Pretty much everything else, I liked.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:05 .

[CptPatch]

I discussed this at length on the Hooked Gamers forum while I was playing my first run-through.  As a result, some of my initial complaints turned out to be erroneous/invalid.  Here's the thumbnail sketch.  If you want the blow-by-blow, you can find it here: http://www.hookedgam....php?f=4&t=3733

1) Tactics are easy to get tangled in priority/logic contradictions.  The event that triggered the complaint was Leliana and Alistair being in a battle and then starting to continuously swapping from melee weapons to bows, and back again, over and over.  It effectively removed them from the battle.  Given quirks like that, I generally disregard Tactics entirely, and instead continuously Pause and cycle through, updating each character's orders every 15-30 seconds.

2) Hate the Inventory system and limitations.  (discussed in other threads, usually under Backpacks)

3) No storage ability for the player characters.  (Pre-Warden's Keep DLC) Even with WK DLC, lack of storage sucks.

4) The Blood Dragon armor is a sadistic teaser.  You get the chest armor immediately, but you can't use ANY of it until you get someone up to a 38 Strength.  Given that your tank types start the game with about 15-18 Strength, it takes @21 Attribute points = 7 levels of advancement.  AND that's only if you pour _all_ of your points into Strength and neglect developing all of your other Attributes.  AND by the time you can actually use the BD armor, you'll most likely have a fair amount of other armors that are just as good or better.  In other words, you never really get any REAL utility from it; it's just a "nice" item that has been cluttering up your Inventory for quite awhile.  But since you got it for FREE, it's at least worth every penny you paid for it.

5) The physical mechanics of maneuvering on-screen using mouse and keyboard suck.  Especially in caverns.  You click on a spot you KNOW your party can stand on, but all you get is this annoying-as-hell sound like an alarm clock being wound up.  You have to swing the camera view up to an almost directly top-down view and _then_ click on the exact same spot you were trying to go to when you were on the horizontal view.

6) The darkspawn AI is an idiot.  Edge up to the perimeter, sting the nearest darkspawn and that ONE comes chasing after you to where you can pound it at 4-to-1 odds.  Over and over and over and over.  Spend LOTS of time to arrive at the inevitable conclusion -- by using a tactic that you should never have been able to employ.  Who is stupid enough to repeatedly just let the perimeter sentries wander off, never to return, BUT never sound an alarm?  Stooooooooo-pid!

7) Why can't your archers at least nock an arrow or place a bolt while sitting in ambush?  Quite the geniuses: wait until he directly sees the enemy -- AND the enemy sees him -- _then_ draw out and load the missile.  Which the enemy is doing the same thing.  One guess as to who can do it faster.

8) Frequently, you assign a character to attack a given foe.  In every other game, the character keeps on attacking until ordered to do something else, or the enemy is either dead or unattackable.  Not this game.  I frequently find partymembers decide to just stop in place -- while being pounded on -- and do NOTHING until you issue followup orders.  Come on!  At least let them defend themselves.

9) Retracted.

10) Retracted.

11) Within the game, nowhere does it tell you that there is a 125 item upper limit.  Worse, once you've hit max, the game will still let you pay >5 gold to buy another, totally useless backpack.  Then there's the bit where you will pay full price for backpack #6, thinking you're adding 10 more Inventory slots, but all you get are 5.  RIPOFF!

12) There are occasional Romance love scenes where the Hero doesn't bother to remove his or her plate armor.  (Talk about shy!)  More comical than anything.

13) If you actually pay to get the Warden's Keep DLC, you will NOT get what you think you will be getting.  Read about it at Hooked Gamers or in the SPOILERS threads.

14) There are items in Quest Items that, even after the quest is complete or unfinishable, don't go away.

And along about here is when I started following these forums and started to post my complaints about various game mechanics.  The main complaint I've added is

15) Bodahn.  Read about him in the SPOILERS thread with his name as the title.

Modifié par CptPatch, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:04 .

[TyroneTasty]

I couldn't agree more with number 5. Designers have borrowed a lot from WoW, and for good reason, it has a great design, but two things that don't need to be included in these games is copious loot and trash mobs. What I enjoyed in BGII is that a lot of battles felt like separate entities, I could almost name several of the battles from that game from the top of my head I spent so much time trying to get past them. They were always at least a small puzzle, sure their were packs of cannon fodder, but for the most part I had to approach every battle with some sense of caution. Now, I don't think DA is too bad at this really, there are a good amount of challenging encounters, I just wish there were more, and certainly more dangerous ones, as opposed to a constant stream of similar mobs.



Perhaps in upcoming games there will be more intimidating fights. I recall BG I had a good amount of weak battles. Army of Gnolls anyone? Heh.



The rest of your complaints I'm pretty indifferent towards.

[Yozaro]

2) Too many "Trash Mobs".

I disagree. Why? Well, I don't think there was too many at all.

3) Reptitive Abilities.

So basically you don't like the amount of effects? Stun, pinned to the ground, knocked down, damage and damage over time, healing and healing over time... Even WoW doesn't have more than that (except maybe Fear kind of effects).

4) Obvious Borrowing.

Can't say anything about this. Have never heard of George Martin so didn't bother me.

5) Loot.

It's a GAME! There has to be something for the player to do. If the characters wouldn't carry anything but their clothes, currently equipped weapons and some food, it would be pretty boring. Where could we get money? I personally like looting.

7) Cutscenes.

Didn't have any of those problems myself, though it doesn't mean the problem wouldn't be there.

8) Why doesn't the main character have a voice?

There's too high chance that the voice wouldn't be what the player likes. Not that I wouldn't like my character actually talking.

[Wozearly]

Dick Delaware wrote...

dragonageman wrote...

4) Obvious Borrowing.

I've read George R. R. Martin too.  Bioware is good enough at telling stories and making games that they don't need to steal this many plot devices from him.  Felt a little robbed every time that popped up...

I don't see much ripping off of GRRM. Sure, there's your scheming nobles, a civil war, and most of the players have a somewhat grey morality, but I don't see the obvious borrowing that you mentioned.

Despite being a huge George R.R. Martin fan, and agreeing that there is something reminiscent of the 'feel' of the Seven Kingdoms in the chaos of Ferelden, I wouldn't say that DA:O reminded me in any direct way of the Song of Ice and Fire series.

Although I accept you referred to plot devices rather than actual nicking of ideas. What plot devices were leaping out at you that GRRM usees and aren't used more generally by, well, lots of other storytellers throughout the ages?

[dragonageman]

[quote
I don't see much ripping off of GRRM. Sure, there's your scheming nobles, a civil war, and most of the players have a somewhat grey morality, but I don't see the obvious borrowing that you mentioned. [/quote]

Despite being a huge George R.R. Martin fan, and agreeing that there is something reminiscent of the 'feel' of the Seven Kingdoms in the chaos of Ferelden, I wouldn't say that DA:O reminded me in any direct way of the Song of Ice and Fire series.

Although I accept you referred to plot devices rather than actual nicking of ideas. What plot devices were leaping out at you that GRRM usees and aren't used more generally by, well, lots of other storytellers throughout the ages?

[/quote]

I don't want to be too specific for fear of putting spoilers in a non-forum spoilers.  You're right that it wasn't major plot that was copied, but they definitely copied plot devices that Martin used throughout his books.  Given how much Martin's writing stands out amongst a lot of the "high fantasy" novels out there, it stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

[Apocalizz]

I agree that the crafting does not appeal to me much. I just use herbalism, but can't be bothered with trap making or poison making..but I have a rogue in the making so I might start using those yet..

[dragonageman]

Gameplay-wise, I'd like to see less overpowered mages. They are clearly very, very strong and it would be nicer for warriors and rogues to have maybe a few more stunning/CC abilities up their sleeves as well. Also, in the skill descriptions, some numbers please. A little too vague.  For instance, the Assassin's Exploit Weakness talent:

This is also something that keeps popping up over and over again in video games.  WoW suffers from this, Age of Conan definitely suffers from this, and it makes games predicatably limiting.  It's like every game developer these days was the nerdy physics major you played dungeons and dragons with, who always wanted to play a spellcaster because they wanted to think their way through everything and thought anyone who didn't play a spellcaster was beneath them.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to think your way through challenges in a game, but there's also nothing wrong with wanting to have a more action oriented player either.

[Amioran]

akkaze wrote...
#4 Doesn't bother me, personally. A lot of the best art is "theft", go for broke I say. As a whole, I found DAO original, creative, authentic - I'm happy.

??????
If a thing is truly art it is NEVER copied. A true "artist" would never ever stole an idea from another individual, it would be for her/himself a sign that s/he failed from beginning.

I don't know of what "best art" you talk about but: A) start reading/watching (or whatever) something better, your "best" art is obviously only trash and before posting these type of idiocies KNOW first of what you are talking about. With a single phrase you have actually killed again many individuals that died for their ideals.

Modifié par Amioran, 13 janvier 2010 - 12:55 .