110 réponses à ce sujet

[paranoid_marv]

theendcat wrote...

While I mostly agree, I'm really thankful of 6- I find it much easier to get immersed in a character without some VA ruining it. Even the combat quotes annoy me a bit (DO YOU WANT A LADDER TO GET OFF MY BACK?) but it's much preferable to being taken out out of the game by Jennifer Hale or Cam Clarke voicing my Warden.

Jennifer Hale was amazing.

[Impresario]

4)  House Stark are the Wardens of the North. Their sigil is the grey direwolf = grey warden?  John Snow is sent to the wall  to join the Night Watch.  "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death... I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come." The Lord Commader leads the watch.

Beyond the wall lie the wildlings, wights, demons and others creatures of the night who pose a threat to overun the North. Wildlings = darkspawn?

John Snow and the Stark children have pet direwolves = Mabar?.

Wormtongue poisons King Theoden of Rohan on behalf of Saruman (JRRT) = Jowan poisioning  Arl Eamon  on behalf  Loghain.

In the mage origin line harrowing quest  the second demon after receiving the staff is similar to the Cheshire Cat.  The mouse hole elements of the fade = Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

The sloth demon:  "Down, down, down. There was nothing else to do....And here Alice began to get rather sleepy, and went on saying to herself, in a dreamy sort of way."  

The Dormouse: You might just as well say, that "I breathe when I sleep" is the same thing as "I sleep when I breathe."

The broken cirlce quest,  the fade :

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?
The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to
Alice: I don't much care where.
The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.
Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.
The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.

Many themes adopted in DAO IMO owe a nod of acknowledgement to Lewis Carroll JRRT and GRRM.

Inspiration or a lack of ingenuity--we're all free to decide. 

Modifié par Impresario, 14 janvier 2010 - 09:50 .

[EJ42]

Impresario wrote...

4)  House Stark are the Wardens of the North. Their sigil is the grey direwolf = grey warden?  John Snow is sent to the wall  to join the Night Watch.  "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death... I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come." The Lord Commader leads the watch.

Beyond the wall lie the wildlings, wights, demons and others creatures of the night who pose a threat to overun the North. Wildlings = darkspawn?

John Snow and the Stark children have pet direwolves = Mabar?.

Wormtongue poisons King Theoden of Rohan on behalf of Saruman (JRRT) = Jowan poisioning  Arl Eamon  on behalf  Loghain.

In the mage origin line harrowing quest  the second demon after receiving the staff is similar to the Cheshire Cat.  The mouse hole elements of the fade = Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

The sloth demon:  "Down, down, down. There was nothing else to do....And here Alice[/b] began to get rather sleepy[/b], and went on saying to herself, in a dreamy sort of way."  

The Dormouse: You might just as well say, that "I breathe when I sleep" is the same thing as "I sleep when I breathe."

The broken cirlce quest,  the fade :

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?
The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to
Alice: I don't much care where.
The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.
Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.
The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.

Many themes adopted in DAO IMO owe a nod of acknowledgement to Lewis Carroll JRRT and GRRM.

Inspiration or a lack of ingenuity--we're all free to decide. 

I saw a cloud that looked like a white bunny rabbit.  "God" was giving a nod to Lewis Carroll...

Monsters in the closet, monsters under the bed, grey as a symbol...there are universal themes that do not belong to any one author.  How do you know he wasn't taking from Babylon 5's Grey Council and rangers?  "I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light." - Delenn.  The rangers accept pretty much anyone they need, whether thief or otherwise.  Their oath is: "We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass."

"OMG!  They use SWORDS!  RIP OFF OF KING ARTHUR!"

The point is that there are certain things that are just awesome.  Any number of people could come up with those same things independently because they are universally awesome.  Just because you can find similarities in two different works of art does not mean they are in any way related.

The game has pretty women in it.  It must be a rip off of those other games that have pretty women in them.

Other themes, such as statues that come to life are based on very basic concepts of human psychology.  It is a very normal thing to look at a statue, and imagine it coming to life or motionlessly talking to you.

The problem comes in when you cannot let go of your prejudices, and enjoy a work of art for what it is.

[Leather_Rebel90]

I must agree with #5... In Morrowind, I loved finding unqiue weapons & armor because they were so powerful and so much better than the run of the mill items, not to mention they were actually unique and hard to find (Seriously, the Daedric Longbow is almost impossible to find without help). It was a very cool experience, finding all the hidden loot and doing hard to find quests to get loot.

I think that's what I miss the most. There is no secret loot or extra hard to find gear, it's all blatantly obvious and underpowered. I mean, the Daedric Crescent Blade was a bitch to get at lower levels but when you got it, boy was it rewarding.

I don't think I'm wording all this right. What I'd like to see is generic gear (Steel Plate, Leather Tunic, Cloth Robe, Iron Longsword, etc.) but also have unique gear that's hidden (or difficult to attain) and actually makes a difference and feels powerful. Also, unique models would be nice. I really didn't like that about Dragon Age, even the unique models end up looking like other generic weapons because the differences are so minute.

[SheffSteel]

Personally I think that powerful magic items should be (a) in a museum ( in a high-class shop with a string of zeroes on the tag or © being used by a powerful and unpleasant person against you. I'm fine with any of these... just not with (d) locked in a box in a dank cave.

[Sarielle]

I agree with you on loot. It's not like you don't end up with plenty of money anyhow. Just make it drop as coins already, and in higher amounts but from fewer mobs.



The rest doesn't particularly bother me.

[General Balls]

dragonageman wrote...

8) Why doesn't the main character have a voice?

Bioware did this magnificently in Mass Effect.  Why couldn't they do this in DA?  The conversations in Mass Effect were probably some of the best ever in an RPG.  Come on Bioware... don't take a step forward with one game, and a step back with the next.  That's what Blizzard does and they suck.

And how many conversation choices did Mass Effect have?

Having a voice-acted main character makes the game more cinematic, but it really limits what you can have that character say. In essence Shepard's choice of what to say boils down to "Nice Response, Neutral Response, Bastard Response", and rarely do any of those choices matter.

Look at the conversation options you have with every NPC in Dragon Age. As an average, say you say 6 things to every NPC in the game (not including story-centric ones). Then multiply that number by 12 for all the different Male and Female voice available. The resulting number of spoken lines needed is gigantic, and not a decision to be taken lightly.

If you decide from the start to have your protaganist talk, you're limiting yourself from the start. Even then, ME had only two voices (one male, one female), and they had half the conversation options Dragon Age had.

Modifié par General Balls, 14 janvier 2010 - 10:42 .

[Glorfindel7]

My main complaint is maybe unfair, as DA:O does not claim/try to do this: there are no degrees of freedom, every fight is scripted to happen, even the 'random encounters' are not so random. I must do the prescripted stuff and there is no unscripted stuff to do. I can't just go off and explore the world (there is no world outside the scripted locations to explore). I think BW has done an exceptional job making the game fun and interesting despite this flaw.



I am amused that in the Bethesda forums there were endless complaints about fast travel (which is 100% optional); in DA:O, there is only fast travel and no one minds.



Two other comments: someone said that the enemy AI only whacked on tanks. My experience is very different. I have to work hard to keep them off the mages who are both softer targets and bigger threats. Well done BW IMO.



Short swords, Rome, etc: most of Rome's enemies used long(er) swords, 2H swords etc. Rome used short swords with unparalleled discipline and tactics to make long swords a positive disadvantage when facing a legion or two. Facing a legion and a small combats are not the same. Nor does gameplay have to reflect reality. If different weapons didn't have different strengths and weaknesses, you would have no reason not to have everyone armed the same. Fine on one level, less fun on another. And this is a game.

[Rubber_Ducky]

What I don't like is that Bioware seems to have a bias against consoles.

[Fluffykeith]

Wouldn't call it a bias, more like a case of less experience. Bioware has a long history of RPGs on PC, less so with consoles.

[Pocketgb]

#1 is a bit agreeable. Cast Blizzard, wait, rinse, repeat. It's pretty agitating having to cut off your own legs to find variety in the game.

[paranoid_marv]

#16 Weather effects. How about some rainy days or Denerim at night?

[Wompoo]

Darth Obvious wrote...

dragonageman wrote...

8) Why doesn't the main character have a voice?

Bioware did this magnificently in Mass Effect.  Why couldn't they do this in DA?  The conversations in Mass Effect were probably some of the best ever in an RPG.  Come on Bioware... don't take a step forward with one game, and a step back with the next.  That's what Blizzard does and they suck.

Yeah, I don't know how I missed this the first time I read this thread...

I agree wholeheartedly about the voice. Considering how amazing it was in Mass Effect, I was surprised that they didn't do this with Dragon Age, ESPECIALLY when they make it seem like your character is going to have a voice during character creation. WTF?

They've used the same system from NWN, never played it I take it. Also there is a staggering amount of dialogue present in this game for the PC compared to the rather sparatan amount in ME. Also unlike ME you have 3 races and the male female variations to consider.

Also dual wielding swords is used in many cultures as a fighting style.

My only real complaint about DA:O is the lack of real meaningful closure for the Origin stories and the sheer lack of story hooks for the origins/race etc in the main campayne, did you feel shunned as elf? I didn't, I may as well of been a short human... take it away Randy Newman. Sure the Human Noble comes close as does the Dwarf Noble (although both still lacked) but the others, especially the Dalish origin were rather forgetable. The end game closure excluding the companion good-bye before the archdemon battle was simplistic and not memorable at all.,, to play a game for 40, 50 or 70 hours to feel like crap was not on, some real endings based on choice made throughout the entire game would of been better (but many may have liked them, I did not).

Oh forgot, there was a terrible lack of ambiance in the game and the base camp was discusting graphically.

Modifié par Wompoo, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:15 .

[Spitz6860]

i know i have said this before, but please don't make anymore of those awkward sex scenes please please please please.

[Wompoo]

Spitz6860 wrote...

i know i have said this before, but please don't make anymore of those awkward sex scenes please please please please.

True, they should of been more like Fritz the Cat, then I would of been happy.

[Kimberly Shaw]

The cutscene treatment is very annoying as it negates all your tactics. I hate that most of all. Let the cut scene happen then have people revert back to where they were and what they were doing when the dialogue went off. If everyone is stealth, then the dialogue should not start since you can't see me!

[EJ42]

Rubber_Ducky wrote...

What I don't like is that Bioware seems to have a bias against consoles.

How are they biased against consoles.

The fact that they bother to support you at all should thrill you.

The entitlement mentality is not becoming.

[wonko33]

I guess you guys really love the game because there is no way you would spend time nitpicking at stuff like that for something you don't like.



What's the expression again? Nobody hates their hobby more than gamers do .

[Derengard]

LadyDrusilla wrote...

Duel wield: The most ineffectual
fighting form there is. Two swords are impossible to duel wield
effectively. You can duel wield a sword and dagger, but it is only
effective in a duel, not in a combat environment. If you do not have a
shield you are better of keeping your off hand free to grapple with.

Dual-wield is awesome. My dual-wielding elf is always one of the most important fighters, although I take good care of Sten and Oghren. There is a skill that balances fighting with two longswords at once.

Modifié par Derengard, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:52 .

[Spitz6860]

EJ42 wrote...

Rubber_Ducky wrote...

What I don't like is that Bioware seems to have a bias against consoles.

How are they biased against consoles.

The fact that they bother to support you at all should thrill you.

The entitlement mentality is not becoming.

i know this is none of my business, but why do you hate the console people so much? i saw another thread about how we PC gamers are hated on, but from what i observed here it's really the other way around.

[Andat]

Derengard, I believe LadyDrusilla was refering to dual-wielding (sometimes called Florentine) in the real world. Of course, the duel / open skirmish scenario that Florentine works in is common in Dragon Age, and most Western Fantasy RPGs. And historically, travellers would have to deal with that kind of open skirmish as they are ambushed by bandits, and that is again a scenario that Florentine works in.



LadyDrusilla, if someone was waving a sword at me, I would not want to use my hand to "grapple". It'd be liable to get chopped off. Better to use my off-hand dagger (or maybe short sword) to parry and deflect. Either way, I'm not sure how this would be repesented in game. The current system is that you simply get two sources of damage rather than one.



Florentine itself isn't intended for line-of-battle, but then I've never seen a line-of-battle in an RPG. Besides, there's no reason why you *couldn't* use two weapons in an infantry line, and some Vikings or Saxons probably did from time to time. I remember watching a BBC documentray which demonstrated using a hand axe which was thrown as warriors charged in, then they switched to a sword as they hit the enemy lines.



In the game, my dual wield elf warrior was quite effective at DPS. Abilities like Flurry and Riposte did wonders at bringing down enemy health, even though it did give me a high threat rating.

[DemonKing]

I would prefer it if the world-building, that Bio obviously invested a lot of time and effort into, was more of the show rather than tell variety.

At the moment, if you want to learn more about the world, you have to read a zillion Codex entries. Now I love reading books, but that's not what I'm looking for when I invest my precious leisure time in a computer game.

Also, while the combat can be quite fun and challenging initially, all too often the designers insist on throwing tons of identical enemies at you over and over again. These combats are basically busy work to pad game length.

Finally, we need to go away from the Diablo style equipment and get back to the BG style, where items actually felt unique and interesting.

Modifié par DemonKing, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:19 .

[Soratris]

It's obvious that Dragon Age isn't Bioware's biggest project and dlc will probably disappear after awakening. I dont understand why there is no voice acting for the player, maybe because it's harder to record voice for multiple races rather than just human male and human female like in mass effect.

Also the editor tutorials are useful but some of the more complex ones are not well explained and I am getting stuck trying to get something done on my level.



Now the biggest problem, continually getting stunned, paralyzed, mauled and knocked down ruins the combat. You want to cast a spell that will make a warrior's weapon deal frost damage ok that's a tactic now the mage is being mauled by a wolf and loses all their health in one attack. Not fun.

[paranoid_marv]

Soratris wrote...

It's obvious that Dragon Age isn't Bioware's biggest project and dlc will probably disappear after awakening. I dont understand why there is no voice acting for the player, maybe because it's harder to record voice for multiple races rather than just human male and human female like in mass effect.
Also the editor tutorials are useful but some of the more complex ones are not well explained and I am getting stuck trying to get something done on my level.

Now the biggest problem, continually getting stunned, paralyzed, mauled and knocked down ruins the combat. You want to cast a spell that will make a warrior's weapon deal frost damage ok that's a tactic now the mage is being mauled by a wolf and loses all their health in one attack. Not fun.

Heh, yeah that overwhelm can be rather beastly. Stack strength on dog and teach him overwhelm. Then you can crunch your opponents too. 
Also, maybe try taunting enemies to keep them off of your mage.

[Harcken]

Definitely disagree with number 8. Adding a voice to my character takes away the "my" for me. Mass Effect is great fun and the voice fits for the vision of the game, but I still feel disconnected from Shephard, it's "his" story. Also, I'd take 60 hour games filled with luscious storytelling over 20 hours any day.



As for the rest of the points, I agree with pretty much all you said, the battles, tactics, loot, crafting, and to some extent, the talent system, need more depth.



I read George R.R. Martin as well, but nothing from the games really irked me, although I do wish the game had a stronger main story (like Martin's novels). The story felt very predictable, and I learned very little of the darkspawn the whole way through the game.



Depth, depth, depth! From combat, to skills, to talents, to crafting, to loot, to the world, to storytelling; it all needs an extra layer of depth. They got all the systems in place now, hopefully in the expansion and in the sequel, they go the extra mile on what is already established.