89 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Anchor654 wrote...

Ashley is an Alliance Marine while Shepard is in the Alliance Navy with his command of the Normandy. Ranks are named differently in either area; just like America's military branches today. A Commander in the U.S. Navy is equal in rank to a Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Marines for example.

Actually in the Mass Effect lore there aren't different branches of service for the Alliance military. I can't recall if this was explicitly stated in the games, but if not it is covered in the first book, Mass Effect: Revelation. Revelation was written by Drew Karpyshyn, one of the lead writers for ME1 and ME2. The Alliance military combines all the functions of an Army, Navy (space fleet), Air Force, and Marine Corps into a single branch of service.

Within the Alliance it seems like Marine is an occupational field for anyone with a ground combat related speciality, rather than a member of a seperate branch of service. So characters like Shepard, Ashley and Kaidan are members of the Alliance Navy who also happen to be marines, while characters like Joker, Chakwas and Adams are Alliance Navy but not marines.

klarabella wrote...

I think, that she was introduced as Lt. Commander was the error and the Citadel DLC fixes it. (Or makes it less of a WTF.)

I can't recall now how often she is referred to as Lt. Commander in the game before DLC, but if it is only one instance I would agree that the Citadel DLC could be seen as a fix. Ashley being a Lieutenant at the start of Mass Effect 3 makes a lot more sense than her being a Lieutnenant Commander, since she had previously been a Gunnery Chief. She not only went from enlisted to officer (not unrealistic) but jumped right over seveal officer ranks to Lt. Commander. ( a bit more far-fetched)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 07 mars 2013 - 01:46 .

[jtav]

Everything makes a lot more sense if she's a freshly-minted lieutenant, so I'm going with that.

[Dr_Extrem]

there are codex entry ingame that explain how the ranks and the military organisation works.

[jancz89]

maybe Shepard finally recognized that Ashley doesn't deserve that high rank, for doing nothing

[Steelcan]

Well I'd kick her out for incompetence. A demotion is certainly called for

[AndreShepard2178]

 Mlitaryfactory.com
Lt Commander is one level under Commander.

[Dr_Extrem]

AndreShepard2178 wrote...

 Mlitaryfactory.com
Lt Commander is one level under Commander.

rtfm

there is no "commander" rank in the alliance military. only "lieutanant commander" and "staff commander" - shepard is the first - just like ash.


really people .. there is a codex entry present since me1.

[mereck7980]

I might be mistaken but doesn't Shepard call Ash "LC" during the Mars mission? Like right before the squad boards the tram? It is kind of weird (and probably a minor oversight on BW's part) that Shepard calls her "LT" during their Citadel scenes.

[erilben]

It's not the first time. It's happened before. I know at least, Shepard calls her Lieutenant in the drunk conversation.

Modifié par erilben, 07 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[CptData]

Think the lore is bugged in some way.

Overall, the time window between ME2 (she's an operations chief, the highest NCO-rank) and ME3 is too narrow for a big jump to "Lt. Commander". Hell, it's even too small for ONE field promotion (to 2nd. Lieutenant). I had several debates about that with Rudy Lis, who's a military dude.

Thing is: it's more likely Ashley made it to a "Lieutenant" within ME1 and ME3 than to a "Lieutenant Commander" between ME2 and ME3, therefore the lore doesn't make much sense. In either way, it's save to make Ash a Lt. and headcanon the time she got promoted to those full two years between ME1 and ME2 instead of those six months between ME2!Horizon and ME3!Invasion.

Well, in my headcanon, Ash is Shepard's XO. And I'm glad Anderson had Shepard as his XO as well, which perfectly fits my original idea about Shep/Anderson.

[Dr_Extrem]

the problem is, that she is "only" an "operations chief" in me2 ...

she got her officers patent AND at least 3 promotions within 6 months.

[capn233]

mereck7980 wrote...

I might be mistaken but doesn't Shepard call Ash "LC" during the Mars mission? Like right before the squad boards the tram? It is kind of weird (and probably a minor oversight on BW's part) that Shepard calls her "LT" during their Citadel scenes.

Yes this is correct.  He also says "Copy that LC" in the hospital.  At least maleShep does.  In fact, I don't remember maleShep screwing up her rank in the drunk scene either.  Probably because the conversation is different.

If you were going to use brevity to address Williams by rank, you would call her Commander Williams, or simply Commander.  That's how basically everyone else has always done it for Lt Colonels, Lt Commanders, Lt Generals, etc.

[Sir Manguydude]

If you want to be technical, because Shepard helms an Alliance Ship, that would make him a Captain, which is equal to Major in the Alliance Military.

[Dieb]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the problem is, that she is "only" an "operations chief" in me2 ...

she got her officers patent AND at least 3 promotions within 6 months.

As far as I'm concerned, they should have promoted her to Lieutenant even in ME2. Whoever the Alliance believed were responsible, it is obvious she's a hero that saved at least the capital of the galaxy, depending on how the actual impact of defeating the Sovereign is perceived. But what did she do between the shorter period between ME2+3?

The Alliance supreme command must really dig her new hairdo.

[CaptainZaysh]

CptData wrote...

Overall, the time window between ME2 (she's an operations chief, the highest NCO-rank) and ME3 is too narrow for a big jump to "Lt. Commander". Hell, it's even too small for ONE field promotion (to 2nd. Lieutenant). I had several debates about that with Rudy Lis, who's a military dude.

I don't know how they do things in Rudy's army, but when you're promoted from the ranks in the British Army you start at Captain, not 2nd Lt.  That's exactly the same as being promoted to Staff Lieutenant, so Ash's promotion is realistic to this ex-soldier's eyes.

I personally know three men who were bumped to Captain, and none of them took part in an international mission to save all civilisation from an existential threat.  (One of them has never even been in combat.)  Ash's promotion is fine.

[ParanoiD86]

Sir Manguydude wrote...

If you want to be technical, because Shepard helms an Alliance Ship, that would make him a Captain, which is equal to Major in the Alliance Military.

Yes this is true. The Quarian´s call you "Captain Shepard" during Tali´s trial in ME2 and this makes most sense. 

I think BW wanted people to identify with Commander Shepard throughout the whole trilogy and thus kept his "Commander" title. Otherwise Shepard would have been promoted to at least Captain after the Battle of the Citadel in ME1 !!

Heck even Rear Admiral Mikhailovic was promoted to Admiral after the Battle of the Citadel if he survived !! 

So Shepard is still a Commander in ME3 but only because of convenience. He is called Commander Shepard and BW would have not risked a ****storm because they suddenly changed that to Captain Shepard in ME2 and ME3.

[CaptainZaysh]

Sir Manguydude wrote...

If you want to be technical, because Shepard helms an Alliance Ship, that would make him a Captain, which is equal to Major in the Alliance Military.

I don't think that's quite 100% accurate (in our navies).  Today any officer in charge of a ship is referred to as "Captain" by tradition, but they don't always necessarily hold that specific rank.  So while Commander Smith is in command of a warship everybody will refer to him as Captain Smith, but that doesn't actually mean he was promoted to Captain (he still draws a Commander's pay).

I think BioWare ditched this tradition to avoid confusing players.  I guess military life has lots of little customs and traditions that don't really make sense to outsiders.

[Lyncoln-Ap]

Most military members of Shepard squad got promoted after the battle of the citadel in me1. Then it is very unlikely Shepard still be a lieutenant commander by the beginning of mass effect 2. He never was referred as lieutenant at any point after that, however, James and Ashley, both lieutenant commanders, were called "lieutenants" on multiple occasions. This said, Shepard is probably a Staff Commander by Me3, this is just not told explicitly, but the clues are there

Modifié par Lyncoln-Ap, 08 mars 2013 - 12:49 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Lt Commander is (in the real world) always abbreviated as "Commander", not "Lieutenant".

[ParanoiD86]

Seriously I just can´t see any logical explanation why Shepard would still be Commander (or Lt. Commander) in ME3.

As I already said Rear Admiral Mikhailovic got promoted after the Citadel battle because of his fighting in the battle and was an Admiral after that battle.

Why shouldn't Shepard who ****ing saved the galaxy on that day (preventing Sovereign from letting Reapers in) have received a promotion after that event?

For me it would have been absolutely logic for Shepard to be a Captain after ME1.

[CaptainZaysh]

It's possible that Shepard was promoted from Lt Cdr to Cdr after the Battle of the Citadel. Everybody would still call him or her "Commander".

[PSUHammer]

At the end of the day...does it really freaking matter?

[ParanoiD86]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

It's possible that Shepard was promoted from Lt Cdr to Cdr after the Battle of the Citadel. Everybody would still call him or her "Commander".

Someone posted the alliance ranks and there is a Lt. Commander and a Staff Commander.

Ashley is a Lt. Commander in ME3 and it makes most sense that Shepard is a Staff Commander. This explains why Shepard is called Commander and it would also mean that he got promoted after stopping Sovereign.

There is no Commander rank in ME tho´ so Shepard has to be either Lt. Cdr or Staff Cdr.

[Lyncoln-Ap]

As we can see, real world is different from mass effect world. And I am not speculating when I say that James and Ashley are lieutenant commanders. This is clearly stated in Canon sources. They are, however, still called lieutenants in the game, multiple times. Shepard never were. The only reference of his rank as lieutenant commander is a very old codex entry. This changed since then. His companions were promoted after the battle of citadel. Why not him? More strangely, even if he were not, why the others of his supposed rank are called differently than him? The only other Staff Commander seen in the game was Kaidan, in ME2 and he was called Staff Commander only when Anderson was telling Shepard about his(Kaidan's) promotion. Every other single time was just "commander", as Sheppard.
Edit: Shepard wasn't promoted After Staff Commander Because he died, joined Cerberus and was accused of genocide. It would be nice, though, his name be written "Captain Shepard" in the memorial scene. Meaning he was promoted posthumously for saving the galaxy, again.

Modifié par Lyncoln-Ap, 08 mars 2013 - 01:25 .

[ParanoiD86]

PSUHammer wrote...

At the end of the day...does it really freaking matter?

Yes it does matter if you consider that you have 2 guys on your ship that are the same rank as Shepard in ME3.

Ashley started out as Gunnery Chief in ME1 and ended up as Lt. Commander in ME3. James is Lt. Commander too.

That means if Shepard is still Lt. Commander in ME3 he is outranked by Major Kaidan Alenko (2 ranks above Lt. Commander).

Seriously that is just odd.

Modifié par ParanoiD86, 08 mars 2013 - 01:18 .