329 réponses à ce sujet

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

AHadley23 wrote...

Unless parts of the Citadel are suddenly constructed from masonry, then it probably takes place on Earth.

No, the Citadel was constructed using concrete and rebar.  

thats not conrete and rebar in that final shot.  its the metal and pipes from the decision chamber. 

It looks identical to destroyed concrete with rebar sticking out of it.  Most people wouldn't assume that those were common materials used on a space station.  Its not like we, oh I don't know, just were recently in a city in ruins.....which was made out of concrete......

Metal thats broken rather than cut DOES look alot like concrete (certain metals do)  I never thought the destroyed pipes looked like rebar, I looked hard at the entire chamber before I decided.  The first time I saw an IT video I immediately responded with "Thats not london, those are just the pipes from the machine werent you paying attention?"

[Holger1405]

Bfler wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

You can head cannon your Game every way you want, but there is only one logical explanation for the high Destroy EMS string of scenes, that Shepard is alive.

But for how long?

Your decision, it's your game. 

Modifié par Holger1405, 07 mars 2013 - 08:32 .

[eddieoctane]

AHadley23 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

AHadley23 wrote...

Unless parts of the Citadel are suddenly constructed from masonry, then it probably takes place on Earth.

No, the Citadel was constructed using concrete and rebar.  

thats not conrete and rebar in that final shot.  its the metal and pipes from the decision chamber. 

It looks identical to destroyed concrete with rebar sticking out of it.  Most people wouldn't assume that those were common materials used on a space station.  Its not like we, oh I don't know, just were recently in a city in ruins.....which was made out of concrete......

Added to which, metal debris doesn't look like that anyway. The
texturing of the material - particularly the last large chunk before the
camera pans to Shepard - is nowhere near metallic. It's quite clearly
masonry, which the Citadel is definitely not made from.

Some of the structures in the commons had a somewhat masonry feel to their appearance. Though this was inside the sealed environment of the Presidium, that Shep couldn't have been transported to without either being deliberately placed there (as in a Keeper doing it) or something actually penetrating through several layers on the Presidium superstructure and then launching Shep through the hole. And that means that Shep's most likely location is back on Earth, where reinforced masonry is everywhere. But that feeds into IT which is apparently a taboo subject now (or at least something Chris Priestly doesn't want people to talk about).

[wright1978]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

GoldFlsh wrote...

High EMS destroy causes the ending to just...be all whimper like you have no clue, you don't have a powerful scene that gives you a sense of closure on Shepard's fate. 

Exactly. It whimpers out and left me feeling, "WTF? What was that? So she's just lying there in the...Citadel? London? Was that even her? Does she get rescued in time? When was that shot supposed to have taken place? How is she even alive? What kind of breath was that? WHAT HAPPENED TO SHEPARD?!" That's no way to end a trilogy, not when you know there are no future plans with Shepard.

Agree completely

[D1ck1e]

Jack gave it purpose.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

The camera panning out from Anderson nameplate to reveal Shep placing it. There's zero reason why you can't end on a powerful shot with Shep in the memorial scene. 

+1

That is a scene implying shepard leans on anderson.  They'd need a new shot of the normandy at a repaired vancouver or something to have something decent to pan out on.  It would have been alright with a pan out shot of the normandy in dry dock on earth.   The bridge from hackett's speech to encompass "Shepard alive" and "the normandy returns" would need some patchwork as well.  I thought the love interest looking up was a corny "telegraphing" shot, and that they overcompensated in trying to please people with that ending.  (these are things a bioware animation and modeling staff would be required to accomplish.  It would have probably been okay.  Hell throw a geth walking arround in the background on earth while you're at it.  make everyone feel happy about being happy forever while their happiness happies their happy happies till they happy.  or whatever)


I think MEHEM overdoes it, overcompensates, and overreaches what it can and should try to accomplish, and the elegant solution requires modeling and animating an environment piece and additional scenes  that only occured to me as the result of this conversation.  additional music to sync up would also be required.  Hackett's speech, unfortunately, would need to be altered to accomidate this as well, because it's tuned to specific scenes in the ending.

I can understand bioware not arriving at that conclusion during the production, especially with the desperate atmosphere the game community was in prior to extended cut and leviathan.  The only interesting idea out of MEHEM IS the anderson plaque, but the way they accomplish it is faulty, messy, and misguided.  They can arrive at that conclusion WITHOUT nuking the existing ending. 

at least one new scene is required, with a new environment.  New animations, ect

It would have to move the normandy memorial wall scene till after the breath scene, have hackett's speech hold throughout the normandy takeoff and shepard breath, and include a pan out shot of the normandy in drydock on earth to be effective yet elegant.  I dont think a modder can accomidate that last bit, and I feel like the modders at work are too focused on "showing off" and "proving bioware wrong" to step back and rethink, simplify the content changes in this production.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 07 mars 2013 - 08:42 .

[goose2989]

Evil Chris has said before that Shepard survives the Destroy ending. How many times do we have to argue about whether Shepard lives or dies in that ending? 


We have real things to argue about, like why the party Vorcha wasn't invited into Shepard's pad!

[archangel1996]

It's called budget, crap budget

[CronoDragoon]

goose2989 wrote...

We have real things to argue about, like why the party Vorcha wasn't invited into Shepard's pad!

And why wasn't Garrus doing the Techno Turian dance?

[eddieoctane]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Metal thats broken rather than cut DOES look alot like concrete (certain metals do)  I never thought the destroyed pipes looked like rebar, I looked hard at the entire chamber before I decided.  The first time I saw an IT video I immediately responded with "Thats not london, those are just the pipes from the machine werent you paying attention?"

Cracked cast iron, over-stretched coll-rolled steel, and fractured stainless all look nothing like concrete. High tungsten steels don't either. In fact, most metals have clear, tight, repeating planes at the breaks where the crystal sructure broke apart (yes, metallic objects are actually a crystalien structure). The edges of the rubble appear to be more like concrete than any form of metal. Some of the breaks are too large to be typical of broken metal. Others have the jagged edge runing perpendicular to the actual break, while metals usually run parallel to it. And finally, much of the rubble has a grainy texture to it like masonry, while non-cut metal structures usually have very angular featujre running along the planes and edges I just spoke of.

Then again, I only have a degree in this stuff. I'm sure the artists at BioWare have a far better grasp of materials science than I do.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

eddieoctane wrote...

AHadley23 wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

AHadley23 wrote...

Unless parts of the Citadel are suddenly constructed from masonry, then it probably takes place on Earth.

No, the Citadel was constructed using concrete and rebar.  

thats not conrete and rebar in that final shot.  its the metal and pipes from the decision chamber. 

It looks identical to destroyed concrete with rebar sticking out of it.  Most people wouldn't assume that those were common materials used on a space station.  Its not like we, oh I don't know, just were recently in a city in ruins.....which was made out of concrete......

Added to which, metal debris doesn't look like that anyway. The
texturing of the material - particularly the last large chunk before the
camera pans to Shepard - is nowhere near metallic. It's quite clearly
masonry, which the Citadel is definitely not made from.

Some of the structures in the commons had a somewhat masonry feel to their appearance. Though this was inside the sealed environment of the Presidium, that Shep couldn't have been transported to without either being deliberately placed there (as in a Keeper doing it) or something actually penetrating through several layers on the Presidium superstructure and then launching Shep through the hole. And that means that Shep's most likely location is back on Earth, where reinforced masonry is everywhere. But that feeds into IT which is apparently a taboo subject now (or at least something Chris Priestly doesn't want people to talk about).

largehunks of metal can be shattered in a similar way, depending on the metal.  

shepard is not on earth.  there were no buildings or human structures near shepard when he approached the conduit.  the nearest building was miles away.  IT cannot work for this reason.  "reinforced masonry was everywhere"  except near the conduit, where shepard was hit by the beam.  it was an open field.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MWMike2011 wrote...

 Okay, now that ME3 is over, the endings stand and nothing is going to be changed...what was the deal with that Breath Scene, BioWare? I mean, was it simply to inspire hope that your Shep survived the events on the Catalyst? Was Shepard on the Citadel, or had he fallen to Earth again?

Personally, after playng Citadel, I can forgive the rest of the problems I had with the ending, and think I can finally just accept that it is what it is, and while it wasn't the way I would have chosen to end the series, it works for what it needs to be. That last scene in the rubble has just confused me and seemed to be the key to Indoctrination/near death for me.

And before anyone jumps on me about this, yes, I did support Indoctrination Theory, simply because it was close to my initial thoughts to what was going on after playing the game the first time. After I originally finished, I thought that, SURELY, my Shepard was still on the ground in London, and just had a near-death experience, which lines up with the rubble scene. Looking back, it was more of wishful thinking... 

No, the breath scene is Shepard recovering from getting the wind knocked out of her from the explosion. There's a rescue team that arrives and finds Shepard and she recovers. Grandpa tells a story. Then the war is over, and Shepard is back on the Normandy again, and there's this apartment available on the Citadel. Cool. It's Anderson's. And he wants you to have it. Apparently they found him and he only passed out. Cool. It's the only mission on your docket. "Go to Apartment". So go to apartment on the Citadel.

Oh and the relays work. Apparently this is a few years after the war. Just go straight to the apartment and don't go anywhere else. It really isn't worth it. Trust me. This is your post ending DLC.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

eddieoctane wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Metal thats broken rather than cut DOES look alot like concrete (certain metals do)  I never thought the destroyed pipes looked like rebar, I looked hard at the entire chamber before I decided.  The first time I saw an IT video I immediately responded with "Thats not london, those are just the pipes from the machine werent you paying attention?"

Cracked cast iron, over-stretched coll-rolled steel, and fractured stainless all look nothing like concrete. High tungsten steels don't either. In fact, most metals have clear, tight, repeating planes at the breaks where the crystal sructure broke apart (yes, metallic objects are actually a crystalien structure). The edges of the rubble appear to be more like concrete than any form of metal. Some of the breaks are too large to be typical of broken metal. Others have the jagged edge runing perpendicular to the actual break, while metals usually run parallel to it. And finally, much of the rubble has a grainy texture to it like masonry, while non-cut metal structures usually have very angular featujre running along the planes and edges I just spoke of.

Then again, I only have a degree in this stuff. I'm sure the artists at BioWare have a far better grasp of materials science than I do.

its "supposed" to be the citadel.  it still lines up. 


this isnt what i was thinking at the time: but what if it IS just concrete with a shiny metal plating on the outside?

also bioware rushed the ending.  We see krogans fighting in london even if you lost all krogan support.  its supposed to be the destroy thing all smashes up.  those ARE the same pipes as were in that platform area.  We know what they meant to convey, we're just argueing composition against what the cg team accomplished in their rushed timeframe.  

However:
it cant be earth because the spot where shepard passed out was an open area.  it does not match at all with the epilogue shot.

Bioware is not telling anymore shepard stories.  their intent was to have a complete trilogy that ends shepard's story.  we'll get more mass effect games about other dudes, just not more shepard games.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 07 mars 2013 - 08:51 .

[eddieoctane]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

largehunks of metal can be shattered in a similar way, depending on the metal.  

shepard is not on earth.  there were no buildings or human structures near shepard when he approached the conduit.  the nearest building was miles away.  IT cannot work for this reason.  "reinforced masonry was everywhere"  except near the conduit, where shepard was hit by the beam.  it was an open field.

There still remains the possibility that Shep somehow went through reentry again and this time came out alive. Though that still sounds terribly absurd. All explanation of the breath scene fall apart because BioWare doesn;t know what they are doing or doesn't care any more. Considering the recent comments about not patchign bugs in MP any longer, I'd be inclined to think the latter. This means that we should be incredibly critical of any future titles that bear the BioWare brand or the names of any of the key staffers, unfortunately. It's just too high of a risk to think that they stopped caring abotu Mass Effect but will give the next project 110%.

[Massa FX]

A breath of LIFE. Be happy!

A final breath of LIFE. Be unhappy...

You choose.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

eddieoctane wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

largehunks of metal can be shattered in a similar way, depending on the metal.  

shepard is not on earth.  there were no buildings or human structures near shepard when he approached the conduit.  the nearest building was miles away.  IT cannot work for this reason.  "reinforced masonry was everywhere"  except near the conduit, where shepard was hit by the beam.  it was an open field.

There still remains the possibility that Shep somehow went through reentry again and this time came out alive. Though that still sounds terribly absurd. All explanation of the breath scene fall apart because BioWare doesn;t know what they are doing or doesn't care any more. Considering the recent comments about not patchign bugs in MP any longer, I'd be inclined to think the latter. This means that we should be incredibly critical of any future titles that bear the BioWare brand or the names of any of the key staffers, unfortunately. It's just too high of a risk to think that they stopped caring abotu Mass Effect but will give the next project 110%.

shepard doesnt land on earth.  Shepard's already gone through re-entry to a planet and didnt survive it the first time.  Shepard is just in the rubble of the decision platform.  yeah its not a perfect composition but original content created for the london mission isnt perfect and rushed.  Thats why bioware had to spend half their dlc budget on fixing thEAir mess

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

MWMike2011 wrote...

 Okay, now that ME3 is over, the endings stand and nothing is going to be changed...what was the deal with that Breath Scene, BioWare? I mean, was it simply to inspire hope that your Shep survived the events on the Catalyst? Was Shepard on the Citadel, or had he fallen to Earth again?

Personally, after playng Citadel, I can forgive the rest of the problems I had with the ending, and think I can finally just accept that it is what it is, and while it wasn't the way I would have chosen to end the series, it works for what it needs to be. That last scene in the rubble has just confused me and seemed to be the key to Indoctrination/near death for me.

And before anyone jumps on me about this, yes, I did support Indoctrination Theory, simply because it was close to my initial thoughts to what was going on after playing the game the first time. After I originally finished, I thought that, SURELY, my Shepard was still on the ground in London, and just had a near-death experience, which lines up with the rubble scene. Looking back, it was more of wishful thinking... 

No, the breath scene is Shepard recovering from getting the wind knocked out of her from the explosion. There's a rescue team that arrives and finds Shepard and she recovers. Grandpa tells a story. Then the war is over, and Shepard is back on the Normandy again, and there's this apartment available on the Citadel. Cool. It's Anderson's. And he wants you to have it. Apparently they found him and he only passed out. Cool. It's the only mission on your docket. "Go to Apartment". So go to apartment on the Citadel.

Oh and the relays work. Apparently this is a few years after the war. Just go straight to the apartment and don't go anywhere else. It really isn't worth it. Trust me. This is your post ending DLC.

hahahahaha high five  :wizard:

[dreamgazer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

MWMike2011 wrote...

 Okay, now that ME3 is over, the endings stand and nothing is going to be changed...what was the deal with that Breath Scene, BioWare? I mean, was it simply to inspire hope that your Shep survived the events on the Catalyst? Was Shepard on the Citadel, or had he fallen to Earth again?

Personally, after playng Citadel, I can forgive the rest of the problems I had with the ending, and think I can finally just accept that it is what it is, and while it wasn't the way I would have chosen to end the series, it works for what it needs to be. That last scene in the rubble has just confused me and seemed to be the key to Indoctrination/near death for me.

And before anyone jumps on me about this, yes, I did support Indoctrination Theory, simply because it was close to my initial thoughts to what was going on after playing the game the first time. After I originally finished, I thought that, SURELY, my Shepard was still on the ground in London, and just had a near-death experience, which lines up with the rubble scene. Looking back, it was more of wishful thinking... 

No, the breath scene is Shepard recovering from getting the wind knocked out of her from the explosion. There's a rescue team that arrives and finds Shepard and she recovers. Grandpa tells a story. Then the war is over, and Shepard is back on the Normandy again, and there's this apartment available on the Citadel. Cool. It's Anderson's. And he wants you to have it. Apparently they found him and he only passed out. Cool. It's the only mission on your docket. "Go to Apartment". So go to apartment on the Citadel.

Oh and the relays work. Apparently this is a few years after the war. Just go straight to the apartment and don't go anywhere else. It really isn't worth it. Trust me. This is your post ending DLC.

That "Assault the Illusive Man's Base" thing is just a glitch in the journal/map.  Hell, there are enough of 'em already, right?

[wright1978]

goose2989 wrote...

Evil Chris has said before that Shepard survives the Destroy ending. How many times do we have to argue about whether Shepard lives or dies in that ending? 


We have real things to argue about, like why the party Vorcha wasn't invited into Shepard's pad!

As long as it takes to ensure the message gets through that refusing to provide clarification/closure for a live protaganist whilst giving it for a dead one should never happen again.

[HomerIsLegend]

They could easily canon Destroy as the ending and make a post-ending DLC with Shepard. Why? Shepard could die at the end of ME2 and yet they made it canon that he obviously lived so there could be a ME3! Logic doesn't belong anywhere near this series anymore. If they actually really cared about the series and the people who love it they would have added another ending option or done a post ending DLC.

[dreamgazer]

wright1978 wrote...

goose2989 wrote...

Evil Chris has said before that Shepard survives the Destroy ending. How many times do we have to argue about whether Shepard lives or dies in that ending? 


We have real things to argue about, like why the party Vorcha wasn't invited into Shepard's pad!

As long as it takes to ensure the message gets through that refusing to provide clarification/closure for a live protaganist whilst giving it for a dead one should never happen again.

I think they've learned quite a few lessons about the perspective of their target audience with the ending to ME. 

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

*rolls eyes*

Sayinig "Oh maybe they die in this scene that is there ONLY TO SHOW US that she lives?" or "How do we KNOW they reunite HUH?" is just a thinly veiled beg for more content. COME ON NOW.

theres enough information to confirm that they get to live a happy life after this.

[clarkusdarkus]

What a wimpy way to end the trilogy tho, the game was tedious and a chore already, But giving us that big " f@#k yeah " moment at the end would have cancelled it all out.....it was the end of a trilogy for crying out loud where everything we knew and did led to that point, Where was the satisfaction, where was the winning feeling, its a videogame we should win you know...

All we got was an earth mission that was a horde of reapers, And then the walk of shame picking a color after speaking with an entity that came from nowhere which was already confusing, let alone him boring us to death.....at that point i had neckache from shaking my head so many times.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

i was satisfied when the reapers all died. that was pretty great.