329 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

*rolls eyes*

Sayinig "Oh maybe they die in this scene that is there ONLY TO SHOW US that she lives?" or "How do we KNOW they reunite HUH?" is just a thinly veiled beg for more content. COME ON NOW.

theres enough information to confirm that they get to live a happy life after this.

Only if you pour liberal amounts of head canon to drown out the taste of ambiguity. No different from pre EC really.
Live Shep doesn't get clarification/closure, that's reserved for dead Shep in EC.

[idunhavaname]

If you look closely, the rubbe are parts of the tube that Shep destroyed on the Citadel.

Those saying hes still on Earth and everything was a mind battle- go use some common sense. You think BioWare will end a game with Shep having a seizure?

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

rofl you dont prove points by masking terms with tropes.

let me rewrite what you just said so it doesnt sound like "an internet guy saying it" using proper terminology and writing.


why does the fleet sacrifice themselves to get shepard back to the normandy? Why wouldnt the fleet try to evacuate the citadel? Why is shepard worth letting the fleet suffer MORE casualties bullrushing the reapers?

Only if you believe implied narrative solves ambiguity.

man it STILL barely makes a real arguement.

Theres plenty of implied narrative and ambiguity throughout the series or any accepted storytelling medium. hell, asari reproduction is ambiguous.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 07 mars 2013 - 09:14 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

idunhavaname wrote...

If you look closely, the rubbe are parts of the tube that Shep destroyed on the Citadel.

Those saying hes still on Earth and everything was a mind battle- go use some common sense. You think BioWare will end a game with Shep having a seizure?

no see because mass effect wasnt about uniting the galaxy along with the hopes of every civilization that came before (crucible), it was about shepard shooting harbinger and shepard becoming god pope of space.  if those two things dont happen then its unacceptable.

[dreamgazer]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

idunhavaname wrote...

If you look closely, the rubbe are parts of the tube that Shep destroyed on the Citadel.

Those saying hes still on Earth and everything was a mind battle- go use some common sense. You think BioWare will end a game with Shep having a seizure?

no see because mass effect wasnt about uniting the galaxy along with the hopes of every civilization that came before (crucible), it was about shepard shooting harbinger and shepard becoming god pope of space.  if those two things dont happen then its unacceptable.

Stop beating him.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

dreamgazer wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

idunhavaname wrote...

If you look closely, the rubbe are parts of the tube that Shep destroyed on the Citadel.

Those saying hes still on Earth and everything was a mind battle- go use some common sense. You think BioWare will end a game with Shep having a seizure?

no see because mass effect wasnt about uniting the galaxy along with the hopes of every civilization that came before (crucible), it was about shepard shooting harbinger and shepard becoming god pope of space.  if those two things dont happen then its unacceptable.

Stop beating him.

d00d i think you missed the ironic agreement with the quoted poster in my post.  ;/

i thought the god-pope of space line would be a dead giveaway, mr scarecrow wheres your brain

[Auld Wulf]

I still say what's going on here is pretty obvious, now. BioWare didn't create a DLC with a clone of Shepard as the antagonist for the fun of it. They were clarifying the 'breath scene,' of course! What you actually see is that the clone survived, who's now able to step into the life of Shepard unchallenged (as Shepard died on the Citadel).

I mean, why else would they specifically create a DLC that revolved around a Shepard clone? And more importantly, a Shepard clone that we don't specifically see the death of, or find a body of. In Destroy, the clone survives, and is ready to wreak havoc in Shepard's name.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 07 mars 2013 - 09:22 .

[dreamgazer]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

idunhavaname wrote...

If you look closely, the rubbe are parts of the tube that Shep destroyed on the Citadel.

Those saying hes still on Earth and everything was a mind battle- go use some common sense. You think BioWare will end a game with Shep having a seizure?

no see because mass effect wasnt about uniting the galaxy along with the hopes of every civilization that came before (crucible), it was about shepard shooting harbinger and shepard becoming god pope of space.  if those two things dont happen then its unacceptable.

Stop beating him.

d00d i think you missed the ironic agreement with the quoted poster in my post.  ;/

i thought the god-pope of space line would be a dead giveaway, mr scarecrow wheres your brain

Yeah, frankly, I didn't pick up on it.

[eddieoctane]

idunhavaname wrote...

If you look closely, the rubbe are parts of the tube that Shep destroyed on the Citadel.

Those saying hes still on Earth and everything was a mind battle- go use some common sense. You think BioWare will end a game with Shep having a seizure?

No, they wouldn't do that. Just like they wouldn't directly insult their fans, insert foreshadowing after the game was released to try to pretend like certain elements of the story make any sense, or forcible include an MP mode that was required to experience all the content after claiming it wasn't.

Oh wait...

[RogueBot]

It seems like a rather sharp inhalation for someone's dying breath. If someone was dying, their last inhalations would be rather feeble, I'd think.

Maybe he'll die of starvation or something, all alone in the rubble, but that's something else.

Modifié par RogueBot, 07 mars 2013 - 09:39 .

[TomY90]

Auld Wulf wrote...

I still say what's going on here is pretty obvious, now. BioWare didn't create a DLC with a clone of Shepard as the antagonist for the fun of it. They were clarifying the 'breath scene,' of course! What you actually see is that the clone survived, who's now able to step into the life of Shepard unchallenged (as Shepard died on the Citadel).

I mean, why else would they specifically create a DLC that revolved around a Shepard clone? And more importantly, a Shepard clone that we don't specifically see the death of, or find a body of. In Destroy, the clone survives, and is ready to wreak havoc in Shepard's name.

not sure if this is a joke (if it is not here is an answer why they used the shepard clone)

they created a clone of shepard because they thought it would be funny for Shepard to be able to see how he/she talks (which it was funny), and was meant to highlight what is special about shepard (i.e. shepard strength is not from his/her own ability, but rather his/her ability to inspire others), thats why they had the scene of the real shepard being saved by his/her squad mates and clone shepard's LI leaving him to die.

i.e. the clone died in the citadel dlc and the drawing a breath seen is shepard

on the rubble scene it is pretty much a scene makes the viewer decide what happens for themselves (the most famous example of this in my mind is the sopranos ending), the idea is people who want shepard to live, find his/her LI and have a happy ever after can have it and those who want shepard to die a hero they can have it.

Me personally never a fan of these endings because it leaves lots of question marks and damages possiblies of sequels because you will need to fill that gaps before getting the story rolling again.

but if you want facts on the matter the offical mass effect 3 strategy guide (I know I was sad enough to buy it) and it does say that shepard lives from 4,000 readiness rating onwards with destroy (this is of course before the extended cut)

Modifié par TomY90, 07 mars 2013 - 09:43 .

[hiraeth]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

What a wimpy way to end the trilogy tho, the game was tedious and a chore already, But giving us that big " f@#k yeah " moment at the end would have cancelled it all out.....it was the end of a trilogy for crying out loud where everything we knew and did led to that point, Where was the satisfaction, where was the winning feeling, its a videogame we should win you know...

All we got was an earth mission that was a horde of reapers, And then the walk of shame picking a color after speaking with an entity that came from nowhere which was already confusing, let alone him boring us to death.....at that point i had neckache from shaking my head so many times.

Yeah, this would have solved a lot of the ending's issues. Even with a dead Shepard- to have him go out in a bang, and not just jump into a magical green tube or electrocute himself with blue handles. And with a live Shepard, if you're going to have him live, then have him live *gloriously*--kick the reapers' ass, pick himself up out of the rubble, and then say "f*ck yeah. now time to return to my crew and clean this mess up." that would have been amazing.

[hiraeth]

From this thread: http://social.biowar.../index/16180533

RaenImrahl wrote...

Whether or not Shepard survives or not is open to the interpretation of each player. *snip*

This is what I'm talking about. Why don't we get this same "open to interpretation" for the other endings? It's incredibly upsetting.

[eddieoctane]

RogueBot wrote...

It seems like a rather sharp inhalation for someone's dying breath. If someone was dying, their last inhalations would be rather feeble, I'd think.

Maybe he'll die of starvation or something, all alone in the rubble, but that's something else.

I've worked in an ER. I've said several times that Shep's breath is more characteristic of someone regaining consciousness after a near-death experience than a death rattle. And the doctors at BioWare could have easily told the devs the same damn thing. That breath is not someone giving in, it's someone beating the odds.

Unfortunately, it seems the easiest explanation for a lot of the issues in ME3 is that the devs didn't care. They didn't care enough to get the breath scene right. They don't care enough to fix the bug in MP that they just created. they don't care about their fans to the point of insulting them.

[FlyinSquirrel]

Auld Wulf wrote...

I still say what's going on here is pretty obvious, now. BioWare didn't create a DLC with a clone of Shepard as the antagonist for the fun of it. They were clarifying the 'breath scene,' of course! What you actually see is that the clone survived, who's now able to step into the life of Shepard unchallenged (as Shepard died on the Citadel).

I mean, why else would they specifically create a DLC that revolved around a Shepard clone? And more importantly, a Shepard clone that we don't specifically see the death of, or find a body of. In Destroy, the clone survives, and is ready to wreak havoc in Shepard's name.

How Shakespearian of an irony

[JaegerBane]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
No. What I meant was there's no confirmation of living. Though it could be any random N7 person on Earth, especially since Shepard's dog tags don't actually look like that.

I should really have placed an emoticon there to aid the intention behind the post - it was largely facetious.

JaegerBane wrote...
And yet he's still breathing. The point is
that you're inferring he's dead on the basis that he got caught in an
explosion, but ignoring the fact that he's still clearly intact to a
degree and breathing.

As AlanC9 said, its essentially the same scene from ME1, only harsher.

One breath =/= breathing.

And he got hit by a Reaper weapon that melted his armor and blew off his helmet, got shot twice, had to have his freakin' heart restarted, he walked into an explosion and then was at ground zero for another explosion the size of the presidium ring of the Citadel!

The problem with this line of logic is that what you're effectively saying is that he *should* be dead, which doesn't override later evidence that he *isn't* dead. Bear in mind he's in a structure made of a material that is harder than any other material in existence, so its not totally implausible to assume that he didn't take the brunt of the explosion (indeed, this couldn't have happened whether he was dead or not - there'd be nothing left of him if what you say was the case). Suggesting that he's subjected to so much force he simply 'must' be dead falls apart immediately, as the breath scene shows that whatever happened to him wasn't enough to kill him instantly.

Claiming that 'it's just one breath' calls into question what the point behind the scene was. I mean, the scene is over in a flash - how many breaths does one have to take within a few seconds to count as 'alive'? If he was dead, like the similar situation with Mordin, why does the scene exist?

And then of course, why does the scene only appear in high EMS endings? Considering high EMS is the difference between life and death of Shepard's final squaddies?

The basic issue is that you see him breathing after the climax. A man who is breathing is more likely to be alive than dead. Arguing that breathing isn't confirmation of life but then claiming death is certain without actually seeing it simply doesn't make sense.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 08 mars 2013 - 02:46 .

[Eryri]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

shepard is not on earth.  there were no buildings or human structures near shepard when he approached the conduit.  the nearest building was miles away.  IT cannot work for this reason.  "reinforced masonry was everywhere"  except near the conduit, where shepard was hit by the beam.  it was an open field.

To be fair it's not so much "an open field" as a patch of land where the buildings have been razed to the ground. That patch is on the banks of the Thames, and is some of the most densely built upon land in London, a city also famous for its vast network of underground and sub-surface railways.

Land is at a premium in London so many buildings also have extensive basements. At the start of the beam run, the transport Shepard in travelling in falls into a hole which the driver failed to see for some reason, so it's not unreasonable to assume that the ground just gave way underneath it. 

I'm therefore free to headcanon that Shepard is indeed still in London, and Harbinger's beam raking towards him made the ground collapse, and Shepard escaped being incinerated by falling into a deep pit. I plan on continuing with this interpretation of events until Bioware decide to make things clearer.

Modifié par Eryri, 08 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[AlanC9]

JaegerBane wrote...
Suggesting that he's subjected to so much force he simply 'must' be dead falls apart immediately, as the breath scene shows that whatever happened to him wasn't enough to kill him instantly.

Perhaps the argument is that there is no breath scene? It's just a hallucination.

[Drewton]

AlanC9 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Suggesting that he's subjected to so much force he simply 'must' be dead falls apart immediately, as the breath scene shows that whatever happened to him wasn't enough to kill him instantly.

Perhaps the argument is that there is no breath scene? It's just a hallucination.

LOL, of all the things in the ending to believe is a hallucination, this is it...right...

Modifié par Drewton, 08 mars 2013 - 04:39 .

[JustGiveItUp]

For those still in doubt about Shepard being alive at the end of high EMS Destroy, he does survive. It was confirmed by a dev. Here's the article: http://gamerant.com/...ive-tao-157961/

''You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.''


So yeah, as for the explanation of the scene itself, I notice people have confirmed the setting is the Citadel and not Earth. How was this confirmed? I missed that bit, would love some insight.

I think it all comes down to the Catalyst just bluffing like a lil' ****.

Modifié par JustGiveItUp, 08 mars 2013 - 05:12 .

[Genshie]

I don't get the idea people have with the final breath scene being "Shepard dying". I do know that it was joke made by one of the Bioware peeps at (I believe) the Comic-Con panel to spite/poke at the fans for ending questions.

[AlanC9]

Drewton wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Suggesting that he's subjected to so much force he simply 'must' be dead falls apart immediately, as the breath scene shows that whatever happened to him wasn't enough to kill him instantly.

Perhaps the argument is that there is no breath scene? It's just a hallucination.

LOL, of all the things in the ending to believe is a hallucination, this is it...right...

Hey, I didn't say it made sense or anything. I'm just trying to play along with Ticonderoga's point. Since Shepard must have died instantly, we can't have actually seen that breath scene.

[JaegerBane]

AlanC9 wrote...

Drewton wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Perhaps the argument is that there is no breath scene? It's just a hallucination.

LOL, of all the things in the ending to believe is a hallucination, this is it...right...

Hey, I didn't say it made sense or anything. I'm just trying to play along with Ticonderoga's point. Since Shepard must have died instantly, we can't have actually seen that breath scene.

Perhaps. I guess my point is that its a balance of probability. He's most likely to have survived given that we see him breathing, and the scene itself has no purpose beyond showing he survived for however long after the explosion. We obviously don't know for absolute certainty as we physically don't see any more footage - he could be alive, dead, in a coma or whatever - but there isn't any compelling reason to assume he's dead and what we see is his last gasp.

My issue with ticonderoga's argument is that the reason for saying he's dead depends largely on assumptions that are neither likely nor consistent, but the specfic image of shepard breathing is just disregarded.

Ticonderoga can believe whatever he likes, the scene was obviously intended to be slightly open to headcanon, and if he wishes to believe that its just someone's hallucination, then great, more power to him. He just can't pretend that there's a reasoned argument to back it up.

[Drewton]

^That.

And the devs have said he's alive.

[STRANGE10VE]

Breath scene was just an attempt to placate the majority of people that won't except anything but a generic hollywood "and they lived happily ever after" ending.