329 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

if the destroy ending was "longer" and had "dialogue trees in an epilogue" it would invalidate the other 2 choices.  They wanted all 3 endings to be equal.  Casey hudson's gone on record multiple times as saying "There is no canon" and "We do not want to tell stories that take place after the end of Mass Effect 3."

They are not equal. Live Shep is treated like a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification/closure in comparison with dead Shep in the other endings. High EMS destroy could have had proper clarification/closure without the need for dialogue trees.

a wedding would be DUMB and CORNY.


i've never seen a suggestion for high ems destroy ending that also worked for a shepard with no romance, or one who romanced thane.  All the destroy suggestions i've ever seen are all "romance finale" focused.

Where'd this come from? How about a freakin' scene in a hospital days after the event? Or a mention from Hackett saying that he's recovering. No?

[humes spork]

AlanC9 wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

 BSN: Where things that need no explanation need an explanation.

This would make a good sig.

More like "BSN: Where things that need no explanation are plotholes".

[Ticonderoga117]

humes spork wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

 BSN: Where things that need no explanation need an explanation.

This would make a good sig.

More like "BSN: Where things that need no explanation are plotholes".

Or "BSN: Where bad writing and laziness is art. Shutup and pay for it."

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

if the destroy ending was "longer" and had "dialogue trees in an epilogue" it would invalidate the other 2 choices.  They wanted all 3 endings to be equal.  Casey hudson's gone on record multiple times as saying "There is no canon" and "We do not want to tell stories that take place after the end of Mass Effect 3."

They are not equal. Live Shep is treated like a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification/closure in comparison with dead Shep in the other endings. High EMS destroy could have had proper clarification/closure without the need for dialogue trees.

a wedding would be DUMB and CORNY.


i've never seen a suggestion for high ems destroy ending that also worked for a shepard with no romance, or one who romanced thane.  All the destroy suggestions i've ever seen are all "romance finale" focused.

Where'd this come from? How about a freakin' scene in a hospital days after the event? Or a mention from Hackett saying that he's recovering. No?

people would STILL complain about "not getting enough".  There is enough there for the audience to "know how it goes for shepard".  I dont see any room for misunderstanding.  The conduit beam reactivating in this ending only is pretty explicit.


You're also missing the point, that the final breath scene was supposed to catch a fresh pair of eyes by surprise.  If hackett had mentioned shepard in his speech then it wouldn't have worked.  it seemed like they had trouble working the surprise shot into the extended cut as it is.  Its a movie technique.  You're never going to see EVERYTHING, but you see enough to know that things turn out alright for shepard.


and its not like they could get buzz aldrin back in to record an extra line when they made extended cut.  come on

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 07 mars 2013 - 07:09 .

[hiraeth]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

people would STILL complain about "not getting enough".  There is enough there for the audience to "know how it goes for shepard".  I dont see any room for misunderstanding.  The conduit beam reactivating in this ending only is pretty explicit.

i would be fine with an irrefutable one-liner and a 2-second cutscene. but i'm curious--i never noticed this beam before, and you mentioning it is the first time i've heard about people interpreting it as an attempt to rescue shepard. how does that work if everyone is on the normandy escaping while the conduit beam is reactivating?

[wright1978]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

They are not equal. Live Shep is treated like a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification/closure in comparison with dead Shep in the other endings. High EMS destroy could have had proper clarification/closure without the need for dialogue trees.

a wedding would be DUMB and CORNY.


i've never seen a suggestion for high ems destroy ending that also worked for a shepard with no romance, or one who romanced thane.  All the destroy suggestions i've ever seen are all "romance finale" focused.


edit: In High EMS destroy you see a beam go up from london to the citadel.  This isnt in any other ending.  This implies that the alliance, or your love interest, followed you up to the citadel and recovered you.


Again, the beam is not in any other ending but High EMS destroy. 

I'm not asking for romance content. I'm asking for simple clarification/closure that is given to dead sheps.
It could be medics rushing towards wounded Shep or even better Shep to cut in and take over narrating the epilogue from Hackett. 

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

the conduit beam is reactivated in the shot of london rebuilt. it takes place after the reapers' destruction.

in synthesis and control its the shot of a reaper in london, in low and medium ems destroy its just the london shot with no beam.

[Bfler]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

i've never seen a suggestion for high ems destroy ending that also worked for a shepard with no romance, or one who romanced thane.  All the destroy suggestions i've ever seen are all "romance finale" focused.

The MEHEM one. Shepard puts the plaque with Anderson's name on the wall.

[eddieoctane]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Its not "Exposed" theres still a mass effect envelope to support an atmosphere.  Technically the ward arms are also "exposed" as well.  (The platform anderson and tim die on is every bit as exposed as the one shepard ends up on)


if the destroy ending was "longer" and had "dialogue trees in an epilogue" it would invalidate the other 2 choices.  They wanted all 3 endings to be equal.  Casey hudson's gone on record multiple times as saying "There is no canon" and "We do not want to tell stories that take place after the end of Mass Effect 3."

There would be a temporary field errected to contain an atmosphere so that Shep can converse with the Catalyst. In ME1, the exterior of the tower required magnaetic boots and sealed armor. It was exposed to hard vacuum. The room with Anderson and TIM had a ceiling and thus appeared to be a contained environment. There is no indication that we are not staring out a window when you get the "best seats in the house" line, so Occam's razor needs to apply there.

And the ward arms aren't exposed to vacuum. A dense gas locked in place by mass effect fields is used to contain the breathable atmosphere up to a few stories.I suggest you read this codex entry in regards to the lack of air on the Citadel.

You didn't address my remarks about the sudden change in color palette between the Catalyst's platform and the rubble, either. Not that you have to. I just don't see why the white metal suddenly changes to purple hues of composite material (like concrete) if we are still in the same general area. If you have a reasonable explanation for it, I'd love to hear it. Thus far, no one has offered one. The least ubsurd idea is that Shep got thrown into the wards, where those colors and materials actually occurred.

[Ticonderoga117]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

people would STILL complain about "not getting enough".  There is enough there for the audience to "know how it goes for shepard".  I dont see any room for misunderstanding.  The conduit beam reactivating in this ending only is pretty explicit.


You're also missing the point, that the final breath scene was supposed to catch a fresh pair of eyes by surprise.  If hackett had mentioned shepard in his speech then it wouldn't have worked.  it seemed like they had trouble working the surprise shot into the extended cut as it is.  Its a movie technique.  You're never going to see EVERYTHING, but you see enough to know that things turn out alright for shepard.


and its not like they could get buzz aldrin back in to record an extra line when they made extended cut.  come on

There is NOT enough evidence to show that "Shepard is ok". The poor person has been beaten to a paste and will most likely die soon due to his grievous injuries. Hell, we don't even know if it's Shepard! It's not thier dog tags and they aren't the only N7.

And the point is that that kind of scene does not work when there will most defiantly not be anything new coming after this. Even watching films where there is no "end" (Italian Neo-realism) didn't leave me with a pretentious ending like this where the main character is in a state of both dying and not dying.

And good. No offense to the man who has balls of steel, but a good voice actor he is not. Of course it doesn't help that his line was complete and utter crap and gross. "My sweet."

[wright1978]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You're also missing the point, that the final breath scene was supposed to catch a fresh pair of eyes by surprise.  If hackett had mentioned shepard in his speech then it wouldn't have worked.  it seemed like they had trouble working the surprise shot into the extended cut as it is.  Its a movie technique.  You're never going to see EVERYTHING, but you see enough to know that things turn out alright for shepard.


and its not like they could get buzz aldrin back in to record an extra line when they made extended cut.  come on

It was supposed to be a surprise in the original Cut. You can't add an epilogue spanning a huge span of time and yet comically refuse to integrate Shep lives into that epilogue. That's embarassing. cowardly and treating that ending as a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification and closure.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

wright1978 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

They are not equal. Live Shep is treated like a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification/closure in comparison with dead Shep in the other endings. High EMS destroy could have had proper clarification/closure without the need for dialogue trees.

a wedding would be DUMB and CORNY.


i've never seen a suggestion for high ems destroy ending that also worked for a shepard with no romance, or one who romanced thane.  All the destroy suggestions i've ever seen are all "romance finale" focused.


edit: In High EMS destroy you see a beam go up from london to the citadel.  This isnt in any other ending.  This implies that the alliance, or your love interest, followed you up to the citadel and recovered you.


Again, the beam is not in any other ending but High EMS destroy. 

I'm not asking for romance content. I'm asking for simple clarification/closure that is given to dead sheps.
It could be medics rushing towards wounded Shep or even better Shep to cut in and take over narrating the epilogue from Hackett. 

No that would still require additional scenes to emphasis that shepard made a recovery.  You need to have a scene of shepard on his/her feet again for this kind of ending to work, which would require additional scenes.  


When I saw liara wryly look up from shepard's nameplate, it implied that she knew shepard was alive, then the normandy takes off.  I took this to mean that the alliance recovered shepard and hacket sent communications to the normandy.  They have a quantum entanglement communicator so they had to have recieved word from hacket on the state of things.  How else would the normandy crew know about anderson's death if not for QE communication from the alliance?

[Ticonderoga117]

wright1978 wrote...
It was supposed to be a surprise in the original Cut. You can't add an epilogue spanning a huge span of time and yet comically refuse to integrate Shep lives into that epilogue. That's embarassing. cowardly and treating that ending as a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification and closure.

Well they also skipped over the Normandy crew, so they get the stick as well.

[Dr_Extrem]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the conduit beam is reactivated in the shot of london rebuilt. it takes place after the reapers' destruction.

in synthesis and control its the shot of a reaper in london, in low and medium ems destroy its just the london shot with no beam.

it is reactivated ..

and london is already rebuild ... and the citadel is repaired as well ...


this scene takes place years after the war. they needed 2 years to (almost) rebiuld the citadel from 1 exploded reaper.

[hiraeth]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the conduit beam is reactivated in the shot of london rebuilt. it takes place after the reapers' destruction.

in synthesis and control its the shot of a reaper in london, in low and medium ems destroy its just the london shot with no beam.

do you mean this scene?

EDIT: yeah, this scene takes place years after the war.

Modifié par MassEffectFShep, 07 mars 2013 - 07:23 .

[wright1978]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...


When I saw liara wryly look up from shepard's nameplate, it implied that she knew shepard was alive, then the normandy takes off.  I took this to mean that the alliance recovered shepard and hacket sent communications to the normandy.  They have a quantum entanglement communicator so they had to have recieved word from hacket on the state of things.  How else would the normandy crew know about anderson's death if not for QE communication from the alliance?

No they clearly haven't heard Shep is alive that's why they are about to put his/her name up. If they'd cared about providing clarifciation/closure they could have set the memorial service well after the ending and had Shep putting Anderson's name up in the Shep lives scenario. Basically Shep lives is treated shockingly badly in EC.

[LilyasAvalon]

To give people who worked for it 'hope' I guess.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

wright1978 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You're also missing the point, that the final breath scene was supposed to catch a fresh pair of eyes by surprise.  If hackett had mentioned shepard in his speech then it wouldn't have worked.  it seemed like they had trouble working the surprise shot into the extended cut as it is.  Its a movie technique.  You're never going to see EVERYTHING, but you see enough to know that things turn out alright for shepard.


and its not like they could get buzz aldrin back in to record an extra line when they made extended cut.  come on

It was supposed to be a surprise in the original Cut. You can't add an epilogue spanning a huge span of time and yet comically refuse to integrate Shep lives into that epilogue. That's embarassing. cowardly and treating that ending as a 2nd class citizen in terms of clarification and closure.

They dont "refuse to acknowledge shepard".  The nature of hackett's speech was a grander speech about the universe's victory, not one person.

You're really over-reacting by calling it "cowardly" or "embarassing" or "second class citizen"

You know that shepard survives.  You know that they send someone up from london through the conduit.  You know that the normandy crew knows that anderson dies and that shepard survived.  These are all pretty explicit.  the beam and memorial wall scene both emphasise that "shepard wasnt left to die up there" by the alliance.  (no one looks at these kinds of elements that ALSO convey story telling)

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the conduit beam is reactivated in the shot of london rebuilt. it takes place after the reapers' destruction.

in synthesis and control its the shot of a reaper in london, in low and medium ems destroy its just the london shot with no beam.

it is reactivated ..

and london is already rebuild ... and the citadel is repaired as well ...


this scene takes place years after the war. they needed 2 years to (almost) rebiuld the citadel from 1 exploded reaper.

But the citadel is never significantly damaged in high ems destroy

[Dr_Extrem]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the conduit beam is reactivated in the shot of london rebuilt. it takes place after the reapers' destruction.

in synthesis and control its the shot of a reaper in london, in low and medium ems destroy its just the london shot with no beam.

it is reactivated ..

and london is already rebuild ... and the citadel is repaired as well ...


this scene takes place years after the war. they needed 2 years to (almost) rebiuld the citadel from 1 exploded reaper.

But the citadel is never significantly damaged in high ems destroy

are you kidding me? 




btw .. no beam online.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 07 mars 2013 - 07:27 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

wright1978 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...


When I saw liara wryly look up from shepard's nameplate, it implied that she knew shepard was alive, then the normandy takes off.  I took this to mean that the alliance recovered shepard and hacket sent communications to the normandy.  They have a quantum entanglement communicator so they had to have recieved word from hacket on the state of things.  How else would the normandy crew know about anderson's death if not for QE communication from the alliance?

No they clearly haven't heard Shep is alive that's why they are about to put his/her name up. If they'd cared about providing clarifciation/closure they could have set the memorial service well after the ending and had Shep putting Anderson's name up in the Shep lives scenario. Basically Shep lives is treated shockingly badly in EC.

You'd need extra scenes to support shepard being back on the ship.  The entire ending would have to be reworked for this to work. 

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the conduit beam is reactivated in the shot of london rebuilt. it takes place after the reapers' destruction.

in synthesis and control its the shot of a reaper in london, in low and medium ems destroy its just the london shot with no beam.

it is reactivated ..

and london is already rebuild ... and the citadel is repaired as well ...


this scene takes place years after the war. they needed 2 years to (almost) rebiuld the citadel from 1 exploded reaper.

But the citadel is never significantly damaged in high ems destroy

are you kidding me? 

http://images1.wikia...rt_+_citadel_-_destroy_low_ems_2.png


check your filename on your image, dude.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 07 mars 2013 - 07:27 .

[wright1978]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

They dont "refuse to acknowledge shepard".  The nature of hackett's speech was a grander speech about the universe's victory, not one person.

You're really over-reacting by calling it "cowardly" or "embarassing" or "second class citizen"

You know that shepard survives.  You know that they send someone up from london through the conduit.  You know that the normandy crew knows that anderson dies and that shepard survived.  These are all pretty explicit.  the beam and memorial wall scene both emphasise that "shepard wasnt left to die up there" by the alliance.  (no one looks at these kinds of elements that ALSO convey story telling)

No it is clearly implied they don't know Shep is alive. I'll take the tiny crumbs thrown my way but no it isn't overreacting to call it treating shep lives as a 2nd class citizen because that's exactly what the EC does.

Modifié par wright1978, 07 mars 2013 - 07:28 .

[hiraeth]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...


When I saw liara wryly look up from shepard's nameplate, it implied that she knew shepard was alive, then the normandy takes off.  I took this to mean that the alliance recovered shepard and hacket sent communications to the normandy.  They have a quantum entanglement communicator so they had to have recieved word from hacket on the state of things.  How else would the normandy crew know about anderson's death if not for QE communication from the alliance?

No they clearly haven't heard Shep is alive that's why they are about to put his/her name up. If they'd cared about providing clarifciation/closure they could have set the memorial service well after the ending and had Shep putting Anderson's name up in the Shep lives scenario. Basically Shep lives is treated shockingly badly in EC.

You'd need extra scenes to support shepard being back on the ship.  The entire ending would have to be reworked for this to work. 

MEHEM pulled it off with almost no additional scenes.

[wright1978]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

No they clearly haven't heard Shep is alive that's why they are about to put his/her name up. If they'd cared about providing clarifciation/closure they could have set the memorial service well after the ending and had Shep putting Anderson's name up in the Shep lives scenario. Basically Shep lives is treated shockingly badly in EC.

You'd need extra scenes to support shepard being back on the ship.  The entire ending would have to be reworked for this to work. 

No you wouldn't. The setting of when/where the memorial takes place was completely within Bioware's control.