18 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

This thread is in response to something I wrote in another thread. In multiplayer, Warp Ammo provides a "Biotic Damage Bonus" or a damage bonus to enemies affected by biotics. In Single Player, the description for Warp Ammo says it provides a damage bonus to "Lifted Targets". So the question becomes: does "Lifted" apply only to enemies lifted off the ground by a biotic power such as Singularity or Pull? Or does it apply to all enemies affected by biotics, including Warp and Reave?

Video results of tests here.

Only Warp Ammo and Fitness is specced for Shepard. Warp Ammo specced for maximum damage to lifted targets: Damage, Ammo Capacity, Enhanced Warp. With no additional power damage bonus, Warp Ammo will deal +27.50% damage to health and +125% to Lifted Targets. So with Warp Ammo activated, weapons should deal about 2.25x to 2.5x damage (depending how damage is calculated) to enemies affected by biotics.

For Liara's passive (Pure Biotic): Recharge Speed, Duration and Force, Squad Bonus. I want her powers to cool down as quickly as possible and to last as long as possible. Her Squad Bonus applies to all her powers so her Warp will cool down more quickly.

For Liara's Warp: I specced Warp only to rank 2 for the cooldown bonus and so it deals as little damage as possible. I do not want it to deal much damage so that the weapon and Warp Ammo will deal as much damage as possible.

For Liara's Singularity: Duration, Recharge Speed, Expand. I want her Singularity to last as long as possible and hold enemies as long as possible.

I am using the Mattock since it deals decent damage, is accurate and stable, and I can control the rate of fire. While it is very accurate and stable already, I am using a scope and stability mod to make sure I miss as little as possible.



Test 1: Baseline Test
The goal of this test is to establish a baseline. Without using Warp Ammo, see how many shots it takes to kill an enemy. Note that I hit the enemy with Warp so the test remains consistent when I use Warp Ammo on the next test.
1) Hit enemy with Warp. 
2) Shoot enemy until dead.


Test 2: Warp Ammo against enemy affected by Warp
1) Activate Warp Ammo.
2) Hit enemy with Warp.
3) Shoot enemy until dead.


Test 3: Warp Ammo against enemy lifted by Singularity
1) Activate Warp Ammo.
2) Lift enemy with Singularity.
3) Shoot enemy until dead.



Results against Cerberus Troopers:
Test 1: 12 shots
Test 2: 9 shots
Test 3: 9 shots


The test results do not make sense. Both Test 2 and Test 3 have the same result, but the damage is only +25% better, or about the damage listed for health damage. Can someone tell me what I am seeing or if my tests are wrong?

[known_hero]

So, are you saying the increased lifted damage doesn't live up to it's billing? Did you try pull vs Singularity? Maybe the system registers a floating Singularity target the same as a warped one.

Modifié par known_hero, 07 mars 2013 - 04:07 .

[brad2240]

It looks like WA doesn't do any extra damage to lifted/affected targets.

For comparison, have you tried WA against a target not affected by biotics? It should also take 9 shots, correct?

There is such inconsistent wording with these effects. Like Cluster Grenade in MP getting a bonus against any biotic primed target, even though it says "lifted target."

[RedCaesar97]

@known_hero:
I will try Pull next to see if there is a difference. I suspect not but it cannot hurt to test.

@brad2240:
I have not tried Warp Ammo by itself against health. I will try it next to see. It should take 9 shots, maybe 10 depending on how much Warp had an effect on my first test (which should have been minimal).

[RedCaesar97]

Okay, I tested it again. I recorded some footage, but I am not sure if I will put a video together. Not sure if anyone wants to see it.

I wish i had a good save point so I could try it against Cannibals. They are slow and cannot dodge, which would make it easier to test. If someone else wants to try, be my guest.

Anyway, here are the results:
 - No Warp Ammo: 14 shots
 - Just Warp Ammo: 10 or 11 shots
 - Warp (rank 2) + Warp Ammo: 8 or 9 shots
 - Singularity + Warp Ammo: 8 or 9 shots
 - Pull (rank 4) + Warp Ammo: 7 or 8 shots? I had one or two kills that took only 5 shots, but I think that was because I got an accidental headshot.

Sometimes it can be tough to tell how many shots it took. Some misses or near hits can be tough to see, and other times I fire an extra shot or two so it can be difficult to tell which bullet was the killing shot, even when rapidly hitting the pause/play button. I always try to get bodyshots to avoid the headshot damage multiplier, but sometimes I hit the head anyway.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 08 mars 2013 - 04:20 .

[brad2240]

Yep, sounds like the extra damage vs. lifted targets property is not working properly. That's a shame.

Thanks for doing the testing, Red.

[TevinterMagister]

The "Barrier Damage" part of Warp Ammo seems to be fixed unlike Health and Armor bonus which is increased by power damage from both passive and TA. Barrier damage is stuck at 80% while Health and Armor is 60% with no TA and 72% with TA active (all damage and power evolutions selected).

[RedCaesar97]

Maze of Torment wrote...

The "Barrier Damage" part of Warp Ammo seems to be fixed unlike Health and Armor bonus which is increased by power damage from both passive and TA. Barrier damage is stuck at 80% while Health and Armor is 60% with no TA and 72% with TA active (all damage and power evolutions selected).

Yes, Barrier damage and damage to lifted targets is fixed. The Health and Armor damage bonuses can be increased by power damage bonuses from passives and tech armor only.

[TevinterMagister]

I also noticed ammo powers are calculated differently than regular powers like Overload. Passive, Fortification and Tech Armor adds to the sum of ammo power damage evolutions, while a power like Overload would add total sum of all power increases, armor and intel bonuses included, to base. How is armor and intel weapon damage bonuses calculated when I want to find the total amount of damage delivered using ammo powers like warp?

[RedCaesar97]

Maze of Torment wrote...

I also noticed ammo powers are calculated differently than regular powers like Overload. Passive, Fortification and Tech Armor adds to the sum of ammo power damage evolutions, while a power like Overload would add total sum of all power increases, armor and intel bonuses included, to base. How is armor and intel weapon damage bonuses calculated when I want to find the total amount of damage delivered using ammo powers like warp?

Armor and Intel bonuses do not apply to ammo powers.

[TevinterMagister]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

I also noticed ammo powers are calculated differently than regular powers like Overload. Passive, Fortification and Tech Armor adds to the sum of ammo power damage evolutions, while a power like Overload would add total sum of all power increases, armor and intel bonuses included, to base. How is armor and intel weapon damage bonuses calculated when I want to find the total amount of damage delivered using ammo powers like warp?

Armor and Intel bonuses do not apply to ammo powers.

I know, I'm talking about armor and intel weapon damage bonuses and if they apply before or after ammo power bonus is added.

[X-Frame]

Wow, this is very disappointing if the same double damage to primed targets doesn't work in SP as it does in MP. That makes little sense as I wanted to build an aggressive Adept a class around that.

Red, did you PM Eric or another Dev about this for clarification?

Modifié par X-Frame, 12 mars 2013 - 03:55 .

[RedCaesar97]

Maze of Torment wrote...
I know, I'm talking about armor and intel weapon damage bonuses and if they apply before or after ammo power bonus is added.

Ammo power damage is based off the base weapon damage, so +weapon damage bonuses will not increase ammo power damage.

Most +damage bonuses are additive, so the formula is generally something like this:
  Base Damage + sum of all damage bonuses

There are exceptions. The Sniper damage bonus for rank 6 Tactical Cloak actually adds to the base weapon damage, which will benefit ammo powers.

[RedCaesar97]

X-Frame wrote...

Wow, this is very disappointing if the same double damage to primed targets doesn't work in SP as it does in MP. That makes little sense as I wanted to build an aggressive Adept a class around that.

Red, did you PM Eric or another Dev about this for clarification?

I did not PM a developer. 

My second test (no video evidence) show that my first tests were slightly off, and that the extra damage is applied, but there may be variables I cannot account for. capn233 left the following comment on the video which may explain the results:

     Shots are quantized, so even if shot 8 left the target with 1 or 2 HP, you have to finish them with the ninth. This is why when they guys test damage values they have to use memory tools on PC.

So that may be what I am seeing. There may be other factors involved as well. 

[corlist]

Was wondering about this for a long time, so here's a necro, with good reason.

Summary
Warp ammo squad bonus damage penalty (50%) does not seem to work.
Warp ammo lift damage worked for: singularity, stasis, warp, dark channel, lift grenades and pull.
Stasis debuff is only 35% instead of 50% (bug?), which is same as MP.

data

[valium]

corlist swoops in and lays the knowledge smackdown then disappears back into the night not to be seen for a while.

I am now working on the theory corlist is batman.

[Darkstar Aurora]

corlist wrote...

Was wondering about this for a long time, so here's a necro, with good reason.

Summary
Warp ammo squad bonus damage penalty (50%) does not seem to work.
Warp ammo lift damage worked for: singularity, stasis, warp, dark channel, lift grenades and pull.
Stasis debuff is only 35% instead of 50% (bug?), which is same as MP.

data

Thank you very much for your dilligence; the first two summary conclusions are music to me ears and very good to finally know for sure.
The last one is disoncerting, though at the very least it serves as further example that Stasis Vulnerability is woefully underpowered compared to its counterpart evolution option.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 24 novembre 2013 - 03:25 .

[X-Frame]

Apologies for bumping a somewhat old thread, but due to corlist's findings, this means that if I have Liara fully level her Squad Warp Ammo, my Shepard will be receiving 100% of the same bonuses as Liara?

[capn233]

Yes, that is what the data seems to indicate.