155 réponses à ce sujet

[cindercatz]

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

[jkflipflopDAO]

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

If you're spending time with your girlfriend by the campfire, then you're not swinging that two-hander.

[Plaintiff]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

If you're spending time with your girlfriend by the campfire, then you're not swinging that two-hander.

Says who?

[Harle Cerulean]

Plaintiff wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

If you're spending time with your girlfriend by the campfire, then you're not swinging that two-hander.

Says who?

This is as silly as "If you're spending time with an LI you can't have good friends in the party."

People with significant others generally don't spend 24/7 canoodling, you know.  Amazingly enough, people with romantic relationships often manage to juggle that, friends, work, and recreation!  Wow.

[BouncyFrag]

This topic somewhat implies that romance is one of the most important aspects of the game and things change based on whether or not you bother with having one. It shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[Fiacre]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

If you're spending time with your girlfriend by the campfire, then you're not swinging that two-hander.

Says who?

This is as silly as "If you're spending time with an LI you can't have good friends in the party."

People with significant others generally don't spend 24/7 canoodling, you know.  Amazingly enough, people with romantic relationships often manage to juggle that, friends, work, and recreation!  Wow.

What's even more ridiculous is that it assumes that the time not spent with you LI is spent training rather than... hanging out with your friends or doing something else on your own.

...And that you can't train with your significant other and will spend your time with them sitting by the campfire. Pff. I bet Cahir and Merrill regularly went out to kill some bandits/gangs/Tal Vashoth/abominations/whatever on their own.

Modifié par Fiacre, 09 mars 2013 - 05:41 .

[Lennard Testarossa]

Harle Cerulean wrote...
This is as silly as "If you're spending time with an LI you can't have good friends in the party."

Nice straw man you got there.

[Selene Moonsong]

wylie9 wrote...
...It always seems odd that certain moments tailored for protagonists in a romance turn out to be completely empty for a protagonist who isn't...

Choosing to be friends or lovers and being rewarded or acknowledge makes perfect sense. However, choosing not to participate in such things and expecting a reward or acknowledgement for non-paticipation makes no sense at all. 

[BlueMagitek]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

wylie9 wrote...
...It always seems odd that certain moments tailored for protagonists in a romance turn out to be completely empty for a protagonist who isn't...

Choosing to be friends or lovers and being rewarded or acknowledge makes perfect sense. However, choosing not to participate in such things and expecting a reward or acknowledgement for non-paticipation makes no sense at all.

So you would have been perfectly fine with no one showing up for Hawke after his mother died and he wasn't in a romance (Aveline does, but that's not what we're talking about).  Even if Hawke is friends with the other party members, they shouldn't show up to offer some sort of consideration to a grieving friend?

Or should we go back to the Mass Effect example?  I saved Wrex's Family Armor, gave Tali the geth data and went after Garrus' "one that got away", but if I didn't romance Ash/Kaidan or Liara, Shepard just kind of sits there at the locker with no one to help pick him up.  So much for companionship.  And no, comfort and confidence doesn't require eros necessarily, as we see in DA2.

This isn't a "I should be able to kill or not recruit as much of my party as I can and get rewarded for it" request.

[BouncyFrag]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

wylie9 wrote...
...It always seems odd that certain moments tailored for protagonists in a romance turn out to be completely empty for a protagonist who isn't...

Choosing to be friends or lovers and being rewarded or acknowledge makes perfect sense. However, choosing not to participate in such things and expecting a reward or acknowledgement for non-paticipation makes no sense at all.

So you would have been perfectly fine with no one showing up for Hawke after his mother died and he wasn't in a romance (Aveline does, but that's not what we're talking about).  Even if Hawke is friends with the other party members, they shouldn't show up to offer some sort of consideration to a grieving friend?

Or should we go back to the Mass Effect example?  I saved Wrex's Family Armor, gave Tali the geth data and went after Garrus' "one that got away", but if I didn't romance Ash/Kaidan or Liara, Shepard just kind of sits there at the locker with no one to help pick him up.  So much for companionship.  And no, comfort and confidence doesn't require eros necessarily, as we see in DA2.

This isn't a "I should be able to kill or not recruit as much of my party as I can and get rewarded for it" request.

Shepard is the commander of a military ship and not some squishy, emotional adolescent who can't handle the tough things life can throw at us, but then this is just a video game. Implying that what Selene Moonsong said would mean that we go back to what happened in that one, specific instance is a stretch. In DA2 the game simply has a checklist to who will talk to you after your mother dies. Again your leap of applying Selene Moonsong statements to meaning you must be alone is also a stretch. At that point in the game Hawke had been completly powerless to prevent the loss of one sibling with the possiblity of a second if he took the other one down to the deep roads. I'd be more concerned about Biowares penchant for killing off family members for a cheap emotional moment than who I have a chat with in a cutscene.

[Battlebloodmage]

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

I think they should give 3 extra strength points for spending time alone with yourself.

[moonman12]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

I think they should give 3 extra strength points for spending time alone with yourself.

what about a some extra dextrity points for being in a romance:bandit:

[Renmiri1]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

I think they should give 3 extra strength points for spending time alone with yourself.

And pimples ?  

[BlueMagitek]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Shepard is the commander of a military ship and not some squishy, emotional adolescent who can't handle the tough things life can throw at us, but then this is just a video game. Implying that what Selene Moonsong said would mean that we go back to what happened in that one, specific instance is a stretch. In DA2 the game simply has a checklist to who will talk to you after your mother dies. Again your leap of applying Selene Moonsong statements to meaning you must be alone is also a stretch. At that point in the game Hawke had been completly powerless to prevent the loss of one sibling with the possiblity of a second if he took the other one down to the deep roads. I'd be more concerned about Biowares penchant for killing off family members for a cheap emotional moment than who I have a chat with in a cutscene.

Your family members have been dying since BG1, don't take it personally.

And Shepard is quite capable of opening up to another person if you allow him or her to do so.  Look at their conversation with Liara after LotSB.  You get a chance to define Shepard's motives and fears.  Granted, it's with a single person, but romance isn't necessary.

Heaven forbid that I believe that your squadmates/team, who you generally help handle their emotional baggage, actually stand by the player character regardless of if they are knocking boots or not.

[ReallyRue]

I agree, as far as scenes like Leandra's death (Aveline comes in and says something like 'I'm here if you need me', which is sweet, but very brief), and the moment before the final mission in ME1/2.

In regard to ME1 and 2 - before the final mission a romanced Shep obviously has an intimate scene with their LI. If you 'stayed faithful' (as much as I hate that term) to Ashley/Kaidan/Liara in ME2 you had a scene of Shep looking at their picture, but in both games, Shep doesn't really do anything if they've had no romance at all, they're just alone. It's like - a ship full of friends, and Shepard can't talk to one of them before the final battle? It has to be an LI? Same with the 'locker scene' in ME1.

That's one reason I usually do the romances, because it seems the best way for your character to get a close friendship (though thankfully, Hawke had a sibling for close friendship, even if they are gone half the game).

[llandwynwyn]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Your family members have been dying since BG1, don't take it personally.

And Shepard is quite capable of opening up to another person if you allow him or her to do so.  Look at their conversation with Liara after LotSB.  You get a chance to define Shepard's motives and fears.  Granted, it's with a single person, but romance isn't necessary.

Heaven forbid that I believe that your squadmates/team, who you generally help handle their emotional baggage, actually stand by the player character regardless of if they are knocking boots or not.

You mean the scene that was added because fans complained Shepard showed almost no emotion in ME2?

Fight on, thread.

[BlueMagitek]

Fans can, on occasion, be correct. ~_^

[Commander Kurt]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

I don't see how spending time alone means you train any more or better than you would with a companion at your side. I'm against any stat differences associated with choosing not to engage in a romance. Either you get some optional 'default' content or bust.

I think they should give 3 extra strength points for spending time alone with yourself.

Nah, you get 1.5 strength for being alone. You only lift with one hand after all (no matter how heavy). If you are in a relationship you get 3 points - at least you're getting some cardio.

[cindercatz]

llandwynwyn wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Your family members have been dying since BG1, don't take it personally.

And Shepard is quite capable of opening up to another person if you allow him or her to do so.  Look at their conversation with Liara after LotSB.  You get a chance to define Shepard's motives and fears.  Granted, it's with a single person, but romance isn't necessary.

Heaven forbid that I believe that your squadmates/team, who you generally help handle their emotional baggage, actually stand by the player character regardless of if they are knocking boots or not.

You mean the scene that was added because fans complained Shepard showed almost no emotion in ME2?

Fight on, thread.

LoTSB made ME2 for me. That scene was gold.

[-TC1989-]

BlueMagitek wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

Shepard is the commander of a military ship and not some squishy, emotional adolescent who can't handle the tough things life can throw at us, but then this is just a video game. Implying that what Selene Moonsong said would mean that we go back to what happened in that one, specific instance is a stretch. In DA2 the game simply has a checklist to who will talk to you after your mother dies. Again your leap of applying Selene Moonsong statements to meaning you must be alone is also a stretch. At that point in the game Hawke had been completly powerless to prevent the loss of one sibling with the possiblity of a second if he took the other one down to the deep roads. I'd be more concerned about Biowares penchant for killing off family members for a cheap emotional moment than who I have a chat with in a cutscene.

Your family members have been dying since BG1, don't take it personally.

And Shepard is quite capable of opening up to another person if you allow him or her to do so.  Look at their conversation with Liara after LotSB.  You get a chance to define Shepard's motives and fears.  Granted, it's with a single person, but romance isn't necessary.

Heaven forbid that I believe that your squadmates/team, who you generally help handle their emotional baggage, actually stand by the player character regardless of if they are knocking boots or not.

I can get behind this. When you take a character like Shepard and make him a stonewall of emotionless actions, I don't really "feel" his/her character on a personal level. I understand that in a real life situation, a Shepard wouldn't really want to have emotional entanglements with people, Shepard would probably think it's more of a distraction from saving the world. If anything Shepard thinks he'd/she'd settle down after the war, of course assuming he/she lives. But that's not what people want, well alot of people, and I don't hate on the people who do want a Shepard like that, that's fine.

But the way I made my Shepard, he was a man with a heavy heart behind cold eyes. He didn't take crap from anyone, and didn't let anyone see his emotional side. But with my crew, he really would open up to them.

*SPOILERS*



I remember when I went behind Wrex's back, on the Genophage mission. And he tried to kill me on the Citadel later. That... was a hard moment. But I did what I believed in, even at the cost of a friend. I remember later on in the game my Shepard opened up to Garrus about the whole thing with Wrex. I could honestly feel the relief in Shepard, and in myself for finally letting go of the whole tough bravado, and being a damn human for five minutes.

[Dabrikishaw]

Darth Death wrote...

There was a thread similar to this one in the past. I believe even Gaider commented something on the issue (can't remember exactly what). There'll not be any sort of reward for players who decided against romancing other characters. I'm paraphrasing from what little I remember.

[Dean_the_Young]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

wylie9 wrote...
...It always seems odd that certain moments tailored for protagonists in a romance turn out to be completely empty for a protagonist who isn't...

Choosing to be friends or lovers and being rewarded or acknowledge makes perfect sense. However, choosing not to participate in such things and expecting a reward or acknowledgement for non-paticipation makes no sense at all. 

Now, here's my question though: why do moments tailored for romances serve narrative roles that don't necessitate a romance to fulfill?

I'll point back again at ME1 and the locker scene. It's exclusively a romance-scene, but the role it serves isn't solely romantic: it's as much a 'you got this, Shepard' moment of support and resolve that could just as well be done by Friendship. So why, then, is it restricted to romances?

The Avelin comfort scene of DA2 got it right, but listening to developers talk about acknowledging non-romances I'm concerned it was a success by accident.

[cindercatz]

They should serve important story functions. The romance is a, if not the, emotional driver in the story. It changes the way your character approaches their situation (at least if you roleplay it, which is kinda the point for me in a cRPG), who and what they value emotionally, and how they look at certain situations, so they're already central. The problem is when you start downplaying them and treat them as superfluous, because if that's what you put in (from a storytelling standpoint), that's what you'll get out (as an experience). When they don't add much to the story, it's because not enough was put into them in the first place.

That doesn't mean a single playthrough should just lose out. It should get equivalent content as an option IMO, but you don't gain anything by treating the romances like fluff filler.

Modifié par cindercatz, 09 mars 2013 - 10:57 .

[mopotter]

The only thing I would want is a friendship path.that brings out some information about the NPC's. The romance dialogue should be a couple would talk about along with dialogue you would share with a friend.
The friendship with Aveline was nice.and I'm hoping for more of this. I usually do whatever romance options there are, but I also usually have at least one game without a love interest. Friendship chatter would be most welcome.

[Fredward]

Plaintiff wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

If you're spending time with your girlfriend by the campfire, then you're not swinging that two-hander.

Says who?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 10 mars 2013 - 06:07 .