37 réponses à ce sujet

[jsachun]

-Conspirator wrote...

I gave her that toy once, but she didn't even want to go to the city and couldn't care less for politics.

Precisely.

[Costin_Razvan]

Gabeker wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And that is why you are grunts and others who have no ethics rule this planet.

Amusing.  It depends on how you feel like dying (and living for that matter).  Generally speaking those that rule following their constituents morale don't get assassinated nor have live with constant paranoria.

Very few dictators get to die peacefully in their sleep.

I find it amusing that you assume those leaders who aren't dictators have any form of ethics. They don't, its quite simple as that. They don't care about morality, they care how it affects their image, even so they do unethical decisions every day.

[jsachun]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Gabeker wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And that is why you are grunts and others who have no ethics rule this planet.

Amusing.  It depends on how you feel like dying (and living for that matter).  Generally speaking those that rule following their constituents morale don't get assassinated nor have live with constant paranoria.

Very few dictators get to die peacefully in their sleep.

I find it amusing that you assume those leaders who aren't dictators have any form of ethics. They don't, its quite simple as that. They don't care about morality, they care how it affects their image, even so they do unethical decisions every day.

But "Woh Woh The Power & The Passion"

[Chained_Creator]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Gabeker wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And that is why you are grunts and others who have no ethics rule this planet.

Amusing.  It depends on how you feel like dying (and living for that matter).  Generally speaking those that rule following their constituents morale don't get assassinated nor have live with constant paranoria.

Very few dictators get to die peacefully in their sleep.

I find it amusing that you assume those leaders who aren't dictators have any form of ethics. They don't, its quite simple as that. They don't care about morality, they care how it affects their image, even so they do unethical decisions every day.

Ethics =/= morality. The words are not interchangeable.

[ejoslin]

Harrowmont . . . the one who was giving property for votes is ethical? Had Harrowmont not been bribing the assembly, Bhelen's forgeries would not have worked.



Neither is ethical -- dwarven politics are not ethical. What you see are two corrupt men in a corrupt system when you enter Orzammar, so you need to ask yourself, which is more likely to be able to get the assembly to honor the treaty. I found it a pretty obvious choice.



The anvil, I'm more torn about. Bhelen does the right thing in the end, Harrowmont doesn't (some surprise there). However, if 1 golem = 50 dwarves, you're saving many, possibly saving Orzammar, by saving it. The dwarves are dying out, partly to do with their restrictive system, but being constantly at war with the darkspawn is taking its toll. Branka may have been nuts, but she had a good point when she brought that up.

[jsachun]

Chained_Creator wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Gabeker wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And that is why you are grunts and others who have no ethics rule this planet.

Amusing.  It depends on how you feel like dying (and living for that matter).  Generally speaking those that rule following their constituents morale don't get assassinated nor have live with constant paranoria.

Very few dictators get to die peacefully in their sleep.

I find it amusing that you assume those leaders who aren't dictators have any form of ethics. They don't, its quite simple as that. They don't care about morality, they care how it affects their image, even so they do unethical decisions every day.

Ethics =/= morality. The words are not interchangeable.

Yeah they are. Morality =/= ethics. See

[Valmy]

CptPatch wrote...
Much of your decision rests on _your_ ethics.
1) Is it okay to side with a murderer, cheat, thief that is directly responsible for his two siblings and father, BUT will provide you greater manpower for your army?
Or do you side with an honest, well-meaning man that sincerely wants to do what is best for his community, BUT the force he provides you won't be as powerful?

Do you side with a guy who supports traditional dwarven values that consigned castless (or you and your family in the case of Dwarven Commoner) to generations of crime and poverty for no fault of their own but their birth OR do you support the man who promises a new way (and in the case of the Dwarven Commoner rescues your family from said poverty and crime)?

[flagondotcom]

There's essentially no choice that accomplishes what the Grey Warden
wants in the long run.  For my City Elf DW Warrior, I crowned Harrowmont
and kept the Anvil (fought Caridin).  For my Elven Mage, I'll crown Bhelen
and fight Branka...but I already know that the dwarves will only be slightly
better off, and that Bhelen is dishonorable and Harrowmont barely competent
(and saddled with dwarven traditions that really need to be re-examined).

I never needed the golem army...particularly since if you convince Kardol to
come above ground you get Legion of the Dead dwarves mixed into the
dwarven army...and they're a significant step up from the regular dwarves.
(You can talk to Kardol and use Coercion just after you crown a king.)

jsachun wrote...
But "Woh Woh The Power & The Passion"

Midnight Oil FTW.

[DJ0000]

If you save the Anvil you get both a dwarven army and a golem army.



Neither aare really better than the other, Harrowmont seems the better but he is in favor of segregation of the classes, Bhelen seems evil but he brings prosperity.

[TheRealIncarnal]

dkjestrup wrote...

I'm looking forward to betraying Bhelen on my Dwarven Noble.

I was so pround when I managed to behead him in combat with my Dwarven Nobel warrior. It was an extraordaniraly satifying moment.

As for Harromont being good, in my experiance he takes the Golem thing a bit too far, while Bhelen seems to be able to keep it more under control. Still, that's the "problem" you have in Orzamar, anyone who you would actually want on the throne is utterly incapable of getting on it, so you have to choose between these two.

[Mighty peon]

Well, if you are a Dorf Noble, choose harrowmont since he will make you the heir.

Apart from that, as the Dwarf Noble there is no reason not to behead Bhelen.

[Sylvius the Mad]

From the Grey Wardens' point of view, where stopping the blight matters above all else, it seems foolish to side with Caridin. Branka will give you golems; Caridin will not.



Also from that approach, choosing between Bhelen and Harrowmont is immaterial. I picked the one who seemed most expedient (Bhelen).

[KahnyaGnorc]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

^ lol. Only that. Bhelen brings progress. Harrowmont is a wimp.

You get both armies if you keep the anvil. If you destroy the anvil, you only get dwarves.

Stalinist dictatorships are not progress.