155 réponses à ce sujet

[Village_Idiot]

I still find the ending thematically abhorrent and at complete odds to the rest of the trilogy. The only concession is that with the EC, at least the whole galaxy didn't go down the gutter.

But from the point of narrative, I still think it's rubbish.

Modifié par Shadrach 88, 08 mars 2013 - 07:30 .

[Athro]

After giving it nearly a year, I went back and played the series through from ME1 to ME3. Citadel was great but it just went to emphasise how poorly thought out the ending was. I thought I'd be fine with the ending now - but it really is crappy.

And the EC just succeeds in drawing more attention to how poorly thought out it was. The Catalyst's explanations are all inconsistent and the endings - even extended with explanations and aftermath - only go to show how utterly nonsensical they are. They just come across as logical fallacies.

And beyond that, looking at it narratively after Thane, Mordin, Legion and Anderson's sacrifices - killing Shepard off doesn't come across as tragic and epic. It comes across as petty and mean-spirited.

Not to mention that failing to bring Shepard and the crew back together at the end of a pure Paragon run only limply implying it also doesn't sit well in the narrative. Especially after the Citadel DLC.

It doesn't get worse after time, it just doesn't improve even after playing through Leviathan and giving it close to a year gap.

All through Citadel I was asking myself "where the hell was this quality of writing when they wrote the ending and the EC?"

[babachewie]

I feel creating these threads and whining about it gets worse over time.

[Risselda]

To be honest...in a weird inexplicable way...this dlc gave me "permission" enjoy the endings. I am a corny sap and went high ems destroy...and after playing citadel I am certain at least in that play through shep is found

[Lordambitious]

I still can't bring myself to complete a second playthrough. I get to around Palaven, then the pointlessness of the character's struggles sets in and I go back to playing something else.

I saw an edit where it goes from Shepard and Anderson wounded on the citadel straight to the Good destroy ending. Because it cut out the star child, and avoids completely replacing the central conflict and then resolving it in less then five minutes, it was a thousand times better.

I'm sure this has been posted a thousand times, but I'm still gonna put this here.

[Andres Hendrix]

The endings do not just make one's own experience with the series feel vapid, it seems to provoke a certain loss of moral principle in those who embrace Red Blue Green, or, a supposed artist's EGO. I have read many arguments for the endings on this site everything from some rationalizing genocide (for destroy) to 'benevolent' dictatorship (control) and the infringement of the consent of sentient beings (synthesis). The endings are not only inept, when mixed with an internet forum they seem to turn people morally into nihilists, demagogs and or genociders' (just for clarification, this is not a good thing; also, yes the more people rationalize them the more the endings feel 'worse').

The Citadel DLC does make the ME3 endings hurt worse (I think this is the case for many people). We see for the last time, what we love most about the series, the brilliant characters (their relationships, and personalities ) at their best; the original aspect that made the series great. However, there is the ever looming feeling of Star-Jar, the egotism he was conceived in, and Shepard brought to his knees before this enemy; all over again. I say that the Ghost-Kid is the enemy (and I truly mean it) because Mass Effect from the get-go was reminiscent of what Dylan Thomas called a "Rage against the dying of the light". I cannot help but feel a kind of Prometheus type mythos when disguising the endings, Shepard has the light, and has been made out to be its champion. However, Prometheus will always be punished "in perpetuum" by Jove's idea of 'Justice'.

The endings are like the punishment to the player (those of you who have trouble re-playing the series probably understand). Shepard and his companions have raged against the dying of the light for at least two games (and arguably for most of ME3) yet in the last ten minutes of ME3 that light is extinguished; in a sense the player is made to choose the death of the light (though varied), on the whim of a shoddy, last ditch plot-device. If anything, even though the Citadel DLC was of great quality, and had great moments, it does nothing but make the punishment feel a bit worse. A few little ending nuances, or Shepard spending five more minutes with his LI does not amend what is "in perpetuum". Shepard in the end will always crawl through the Citadel, he will face down Jove, but Jove will always come out of the machine, ready with the deprivation, the divergence away from what made the series great. In the end Shepard is truly alone, or, not even really Shepard, some people will try and feel better with some 'head-cannon', some who are wanting a certain fulfillment will try and save face, for those who implemented what are now the perpetual endings. Others, will dolefully remember what the series was; the Citadel DLC making it ever so apparent.

[Alexander Kogan]

 Yes it does. I loved meeting all my comrades in the same room in the Citadel DLC as much as the next guy, but now as a result of playing through it I find myself afraid to even beat the game again knowing what's going to happen.

[ColloquialAnachron]

Ending also gets worse overtime for me. But I've started voting with my wallet rather than solely saying I had a problem with it. I had fully planned to purchase all the single-player DLC before I played ME3 when it came out, even the rumored Omega DLC which I thought sounded lame at the time, but it was a company I loved, so why not. Now, I've not purchased any DLC, I watched videos of Citadel before I considered purchasing it, and I honestly won't be buying it. I cannot fathom that this was the emotional response Bioware hoped to elicit. Any time I put even a modicum of thought towards ME3 I just feel betrayed and despondent. That's just me, every person must have their own responses. Unless they chose blue or green...

[Reap_ii]

Andres Hendrix wrote...

The endings do not just make one's own experience with the series feel vapid, it seems to provoke a certain loss of moral principle in those who embrace Red Blue Green, or, a supposed artist's EGO. I have read many arguments for the endings on this site everything from some rationalizing genocide (for destroy) to 'benevolent' dictatorship (control) and the infringement of the consent of sentient beings (synthesis). The endings are not only inept, when mixed with an internet forum they seem to turn people morally into nihilists, demagogs and or genociders' (just for clarification, this is not a good thing; also, yes the more people rationalize them the more the endings feel 'worse').

The Citadel DLC does make the ME3 endings hurt worse (I think this is the case for many people). We see for the last time, what we love most about the series, the brilliant characters (their relationships, and personalities ) at their best; the original aspect that made the series great. However, there is the ever looming feeling of Star-Jar, the egotism he was conceived in, and Shepard brought to his knees before this enemy; all over again. I say that the Ghost-Kid is the enemy (and I truly mean it) because Mass Effect from the get-go was reminiscent of what Dylan Thomas called a "Rage against the dying of the light". I cannot help but feel a kind of Prometheus type mythos when disguising the endings, Shepard has the light, and has been made out to be its champion. However, Prometheus will always be punished "in perpetuum" by Jove's idea of 'Justice'.

The endings are like the punishment to the player (those of you who have trouble re-playing the series probably understand). Shepard and his companions have raged against the dying of the light for at least two games (and arguably for most of ME3) yet in the last ten minutes of ME3 that light is extinguished; in a sense the player is made to choose the death of the light (though varied), on the whim of a shoddy, last ditch plot-device. If anything, even though the Citadel DLC was of great quality, and had great moments, it does nothing but make the punishment feel a bit worse. A few little ending nuances, or Shepard spending five more minutes with his LI does not amend what is "in perpetuum". Shepard in the end will always crawl through the Citadel, he will face down Jove, but Jove will always come out of the machine, ready with the deprivation, the divergence away from what made the series great. In the end Shepard is truly alone, or, not even really Shepard, some people will try and feel better with some 'head-cannon', some who are wanting a certain fulfillment will try and save face, for those who implemented what are now the perpetual endings. Others, will dolefully remember what the series was; the Citadel DLC making it ever so apparent.

i would make this my sig but its too long. 

[Alexander Kogan]

Greylycantrope wrote...

After the Citadel DLC my hatred of it is even greater, didn't think that was possible.

You're not alone bro.

[Andres Hendrix]

@ Reap_ii

[Gabbenator8787]

Alexander Kogan wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

After the Citadel DLC my hatred of it is even greater, didn't think that was possible.

You're not alone bro.

Sounds like you two are true ME fans. Seems like a headcannon after the DLC is the only sensible way to go.

[Shepard108278]

Gabbenator8787 wrote...

Alexander Kogan wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

After the Citadel DLC my hatred of it is even greater, didn't think that was possible.

You're not alone bro.

Sounds like you two are true ME fans. Seems like a headcannon after the DLC is the only sensible way to go.

Wait so those of us who love the endings arent true fans?

Modifié par Shepard108278, 09 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[White Zombie]

The ending still suck and will continue to suck. Every time I look at my N7 Collector's Edition of this game, I still feel resentment.

[MKfighter89]

Off subject some what, people want to no if she's is alive at the end of destroy. I was at the bookstore and was looking at the me3 collectors edition guide. In the heart or brain (ending section) it says you did blank and blank at blank ems and choose destroy sheep dies. They got a few like this, now the last 2 say if u did blank and blank with 4000 plus ems sheep lives. Aka the breath scene. As much as I loved ME and looked into the ending I have only seen that recently. So my ? Is the book says sheep lives why do people still say no?

[Archonsg]

JillBSuiT wrote...

Off subject some what, people want to no if she's is alive at the end of destroy. I was at the bookstore and was looking at the me3 collectors edition guide. In the heart or brain (ending section) it says you did blank and blank at blank ems and choose destroy sheep dies. They got a few like this, now the last 2 say if u did blank and blank with 4000 plus ems sheep lives. Aka the breath scene. As much as I loved ME and looked into the ending I have only seen that recently. So my ? Is the book says sheep lives why do people still say no?

Because the way that scene is set up can go both ways.
1) Headcaanon Shepard somehow survives 
2) Headcannon Shepard dies because his implants are destroyed and help didn't reach him in time.

Bottom line, that scene *was poorly done* if it was *meant* to represent Shepard's survival as *both* possibilites are equally valid.


To the OP.
Now that I have played the Citadel DLC, the Original/EC endings are even more out of place in the context of the overiding theme of the Mass Effect series.

Unfortunately, the only solution here is a fanfiction, fan made MOD, MEHEM.

Modifié par Archonsg, 09 mars 2013 - 09:29 .

[Shepard108278]

White Zombie wrote...

The ending still suck and will continue to suck. Every time I look at my N7 Collector's Edition of this game, I still feel resentment.

Sorry you feel that way.
I don't agree and when I look at my CE I feel joy to play it again.

[sushismygen]

Andres Hendrix wrote...

The Citadel DLC does make the ME3 endings hurt worse (I think this is the case for many people). We see for the last time, what we love most about the series, the brilliant characters (their relationships, and personalities ) at their best; the original aspect that made the series great. 

The endings are like the punishment to the player (those of you who have trouble re-playing the series probably understand)

Well said my friend! I agree with everything you wrote, those two lines in particular.
I loved the Citadel DLC but the ending does hurt so much more right now. I only played ME3 once and haven't touched it since. Coming back to this DLC was amaizing but I think I'll just leave it here. I don't think I can go through the ending again.
I've seen people saying that the Citadel content should have been included in the original game but I'm extreamly greatfull it wasn't. Not as a content prior to the ending at least. I think it would break my heart completely.
This party should have been our victory party in the end...

Modifié par sushismygen, 09 mars 2013 - 10:17 .

[AlanC9]

Andres Hendrix wrote...

The endings do not just make one's own experience with the series feel vapid, it seems to provoke a certain loss of moral principle in those who embrace Red Blue Green, or, a supposed artist's EGO. I have read many arguments for the endings on this site everything from some rationalizing genocide (for destroy) to 'benevolent' dictatorship (control) and the infringement of the consent of sentient beings (synthesis). The endings are not only inept, when mixed with an internet forum they seem to turn people morally into nihilists, demagogs and or genociders' (just for clarification, this is not a good thing; also, yes the more people rationalize them the more the endings feel 'worse').

That only happens to people who had bad moral principles in the first place.

[SurfaceBeneath]

No, but I find posts continuing to complain about it a year later more and more amusing.

The ending of Mostly Harmless didn't leave me this emotionally crippled and it was an even worse ending to a book series that basically defined my adolescence.

[Andres Hendrix]

sushismygen wrote...

Andres Hendrix wrote...

The Citadel DLC does make the ME3 endings hurt worse (I think this is the case for many people). We see for the last time, what we love most about the series, the brilliant characters (their relationships, and personalities ) at their best; the original aspect that made the series great. 

The endings are like the punishment to the player (those of you who have trouble re-playing the series probably understand)

Well said my friend! I agree with everything you wrote, those two lines in particular. I loved the Citadel DLC but the ending does hurt so much more right now. I only played ME3 once and haven't touched it since. Coming back to this DLC was amaizing but I think I'll just leave it here. I don't think I can go through the ending again.
I've seen people saying that the Citadel content should have been included in the original game but I'm extreamly greatfull it wasn't. Not as a content prior to the ending at least. I think it would break my heart completely.
This party should have been our victory party in the end...

I think that you touch on the last two substantial problems of ME3. Closure after the supposedly good (people call it good because Shepard lives; I do not think it is ‘good’ morally, however, I will not bring up an ethical discussion
here) high EMS destroy ending. Moreover the cognitive dissonance the players (and possibly some of the writers feel) when playing the citadel DLC with the creeping knowledge of what is to come in the end. The writers I think, tried to make the Citadel DLC feel like a post-ending situation, which in a sense shows the extent that collective groups are willing to go to save face.

Bioware and EA allowed, over a year or so of bereavement when they could have just taken Occam’s razor to the Space-Kid and disposed of the logical paradox that the endings premise is based upon. Instead, they have
to make a DLC (I am not saying it is bad, heck, I rated it 9/10) that is the closest thing to closure and a decent ending, without them actually making a new ending. This is what people may mean by, 'it should have been the case in the actual game', though most people would want an 'ending' and not the nuences of this particular DLC, if that makes any sense.

Would the word hypocritical be too cliché for Bioware’s damage control policy; cliché seems ironically popular for them in this case. They told us such happy conclusions are supposedly  a type of ‘Star Wars droll’. I guess (going by their logic) miserable endings will be the new trend in gaming (not sad endings, which have been around since the oldest of epics and plays) when I mean miserable I mean dispiriting, illogical, and ethically skewed (it makes for an apathetic trichotomy). Perhaps the new trend in endings, like in ME3, will be ‘not very successful’ ones that preclude any notion of series ‘greatness’?

Hudson and whoever else that worked on the vanilla endings were probably embarrassed when the fiasco began, but the fallout of this mess could have been easily avoided. This DLC feels like Bioware saying basically, ‘yeah we spent about a year in the bureaucratic trenches trying to stave away embarrassment…after all this trouble, the delusion, calling our fan-base entitled and shrill, here is sort of what you wanted; sort of, becasue of business and all that jive…” In the end, all the slogan of “Artistic Integrity” did for Bioware, was warrant them with the notion of series killers, as people actually feel bad about re-playing Mass Effect due its  endings. It truly is a shame; Mass Effect was something truly grand until the last ten minutes of the third game (what could be a worse legacy for Mass Effect?)
I do however admit that the Citadel DLC was quite good. I am slightly inclined towards clone stories because of Metal Gear Solid lol. I honestly said to myself during the reveal, "Awsome a clone!:O"

Modifié par Andres Hendrix, 10 mars 2013 - 12:12 .

[AlanC9]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

The ending of Mostly Harmless didn't leave me this emotionally crippled and it was an even worse ending to a book series that basically defined my adolescence.

Oof! Yeah, that one hurt.

For whatever it's worth, Adams did imply in interviews that he had changed his mind and would undo that ending at some point. Shame that he died first.

[AlanC9]

Andres Hendrix wrote...
The writers I think, tried to make the Citadel DLC feel like a post-ending situation, which in a sense shows the extent that collective groups are willing to go to save face.

Don't over-think this. Remember, if you're playing the DLCs post-ending then this is the goodbye for that Shepard even if in his timeline it's before some other stuff that the player's already seen.

[Andres Hendrix]

AlanC9 wrote...

Andres Hendrix wrote...
The writers I think, tried to make the Citadel DLC feel like a post-ending situation, which in a sense shows the extent that collective groups are willing to go to save face.

Don't over-think this. Remember, if you're playing the DLCs post-ending then this is the goodbye for that Shepard even if in his timeline it's before some other stuff that the player's already seen.

Your sentence does not imply that you have understood what I meant, therefore, I will clarify my point. I am not saying that the DLC "is" post-ending; I am saying that the DLC was seemingly made to invoke such a post-ending “feeling”. It gives people some apects, that they would expect and want post ending (all the characters have a party, and so on and so forth) without it actually being post-ending.

Modifié par Andres Hendrix, 10 mars 2013 - 12:50 .