202 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

This has been a huge deterrent about Synthesis for me from the beginning.

That party pretty much embodies everything I wanted to save. BioWare doesn't let me save it in any outcome really.

[Genshie]

dreamgazer wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

Destroy Pre-EC.

Destroy Post-EC.

Profoundly, happily, enthusiastically Destroy post-Citadel.

Indeed.

Promises Anderson to destroy, promises Hackett to destroy, promises pretty much every other person that we are going to blow them away. Sorry, I don't like making promises to every main essential character only to go back on those promises. I wasn't meta-gaming when this occured for the first time either.

[DOsquareZER]

Destroy then before I could get the Shepard lives ending without MP. Destroy after EC and could finally hit the 4000 marker. Annnnnd Destroy now.

[noobcannon]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Destroy Pre-EC.

Destroy Post-EC.

Profoundly, happily, enthusiastically Destroy post-Citadel.

ditto

EC strengthened it, leviathan even more, and citadel strengthened it even more if that was even possible

http://www.youtube.c...nFtZaw0#t=3m08s

[saracen16]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Another OP that basically reads "It's all about me, baby! My Shepard, my Universe. Suffering people? Potential war? Who gives a crap! It's my Universe! MINE. MINE. MINE." and... wow. Well, let's just say that I have more respect for the people within my version of the ME Universe. I have more admiration and love for them. I want things to go right, I don't want to see them suffer with things any more (like Joker's incurable illness). So I choose Synthesis.

I'm not disenchanted at all. I know I've given Joker & EDI, the geth, and company a damn good shot at life. That's the best I could have done for them. Screw the clone's breath scene. My Shepard died for the good of them all. She always was selfless.

I agree. As much as I loved hanging out with the people in "my" universe, I always felt that I needed to do what I felt was best for them. This is why I chose Synthesis.

[PainCakesx]

saracen16 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Another OP that basically reads "It's all about me, baby! My Shepard, my Universe. Suffering people? Potential war? Who gives a crap! It's my Universe! MINE. MINE. MINE." and... wow. Well, let's just say that I have more respect for the people within my version of the ME Universe. I have more admiration and love for them. I want things to go right, I don't want to see them suffer with things any more (like Joker's incurable illness). So I choose Synthesis.

I'm not disenchanted at all. I know I've given Joker & EDI, the geth, and company a damn good shot at life. That's the best I could have done for them. Screw the clone's breath scene. My Shepard died for the good of them all. She always was selfless.

I agree. As much as I loved hanging out with the people in "my" universe, I always felt that I needed to do what I felt was best for them. This is why I chose Synthesis.

Galactic brainwashing is best for the galaxy in your mind?

[New Display Name]

Galactic brainwashing is best for the galaxy in your mind?

Not really brainwashing.

[d4eaming]

Synthesis is an abomination. Totally against everything my Shepard believes.

[BatmanTurian]

HJF4 wrote...

Galactic brainwashing is best for the galaxy in your mind?

Not really brainwashing.

Yeah, cuz I'm sure Javik is all hunky-dory with being part machine and being friends with the things that destroyed his entire species. Grow a brain cell.

[AtreiyaN7]

saracen16 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Another OP that basically reads "It's all about me, baby! My Shepard, my Universe. Suffering people? Potential war? Who gives a crap! It's my Universe! MINE. MINE. MINE." and... wow. Well, let's just say that I have more respect for the people within my version of the ME Universe. I have more admiration and love for them. I want things to go right, I don't want to see them suffer with things any more (like Joker's incurable illness). So I choose Synthesis.

I'm not disenchanted at all. I know I've given Joker & EDI, the geth, and company a damn good shot at life. That's the best I could have done for them. Screw the clone's breath scene. My Shepard died for the good of them all. She always was selfless.

I agree. As much as I loved hanging out with the people in "my" universe, I always felt that I needed to do what I felt was best for them. This is why I chose Synthesis.

This basically - the Citadel DLC changes nothing for me.

As a matter of fact, it only makes me believe more strongly that I made the right choice in choosing Synthesis. Why? Because the people that I cared about (along with everyone else in the galaxy) survive with their personalities and minds intact.

And while I'm generally tired of repeating this, my opinion is that the only real alteration to people in the Synthesis ending is what amounts to swapping a few atoms here & there to create a different kind of biochemical framework for all life. It doesn't change who they are as people, it doesn't change their values, it doesn't change their sense of humor, and it doesn't change their capacity for love or sorrow or other emotions (which ought to be really clear based on the EC ending).

[Kataphrut94]

I never really had a problem with synthesis since on the outset it doesn't change things that drastically. The people I know and love will still be there and they will still live on. I prefer it to Destroy where a good friend and an entire allied species is unceremoniously extinguished.

See, this is why you should go for Control. It's the happy middle ground between the two, plus you get the satisfaction of making the Reapers your ****es.

[kalasaurus]

I prefer Destroy and Paragon Control.

TBH, after the Citadel DLC I'm leaning more towards Control than Destroy.  The Shreapers will protect the ones she loves.  Her time spent with friends certainly made me more at peace with the idea of self-sacrifice too. 

Modifié par GlassElephant, 08 mars 2013 - 06:30 .

[DeinonSlayer]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Another OP that basically reads "It's all about me, baby! My Shepard, my Universe. Suffering people? Potential war? Who gives a crap! It's my Universe! MINE. MINE. MINE." and... wow. Well, let's just say that I have more respect for the people within my version of the ME Universe. I have more admiration and love for them. I want things to go right, I don't want to see them suffer with things any more (like Joker's incurable illness). So I choose Synthesis.

I'm not disenchanted at all. I know I've given Joker & EDI, the geth, and company a damn good shot at life. That's the best I could have done for them. Screw the clone's breath scene. My Shepard died for the good of them all. She always was selfless.

I agree. As much as I loved hanging out with the people in "my" universe, I always felt that I needed to do what I felt was best for them. This is why I chose Synthesis.

This basically - the Citadel DLC changes nothing for me.

As a matter of fact, it only makes me believe more strongly that I made the right choice in choosing Synthesis. Why? Because the people that I cared about (along with everyone else in the galaxy) survive with their personalities and minds intact.

And while I'm generally tired of repeating this, my opinion is that the only real alteration to people in the Synthesis ending is what amounts to swapping a few atoms here & there to create a different kind of biochemical framework for all life. It doesn't change who they are as people, it doesn't change their values, it doesn't change their sense of humor, and it doesn't change their capacity for love or sorrow or other emotions (which ought to be really clear based on the EC ending).

Do you think shouting will honestly change anyones' minds?

[PainCakesx]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Another OP that basically reads "It's all about me, baby! My Shepard, my Universe. Suffering people? Potential war? Who gives a crap! It's my Universe! MINE. MINE. MINE." and... wow. Well, let's just say that I have more respect for the people within my version of the ME Universe. I have more admiration and love for them. I want things to go right, I don't want to see them suffer with things any more (like Joker's incurable illness). So I choose Synthesis.

I'm not disenchanted at all. I know I've given Joker & EDI, the geth, and company a damn good shot at life. That's the best I could have done for them. Screw the clone's breath scene. My Shepard died for the good of them all. She always was selfless.

I agree. As much as I loved hanging out with the people in "my" universe, I always felt that I needed to do what I felt was best for them. This is why I chose Synthesis.

This basically - the Citadel DLC changes nothing for me.

As a matter of fact, it only makes me believe more strongly that I made the right choice in choosing Synthesis. Why? Because the people that I cared about (along with everyone else in the galaxy) survive with their personalities and minds intact.

And while I'm generally tired of repeating this, my opinion is that the only real alteration to people in the Synthesis ending is what amounts to swapping a few atoms here & there to create a different kind of biochemical framework for all life. It doesn't change who they are as people, it doesn't change their values, it doesn't change their sense of humor, and it doesn't change their capacity for love or sorrow or other emotions (which ought to be really clear based on the EC ending).

And I'll repeat this again. How does swapping out some organic bits for synthetic bits (and vice versa) lead to eternal peace and happiness? 

HJF4 wrote...

Galactic brainwashing is best for the galaxy in your mind?

Not really brainwashing.

Explain how there's suddently a utopian society then?

Modifié par PainCakesx, 08 mars 2013 - 06:30 .

[Brass_Buckles]

I have a lot of reasons I dislike the Synthesis ending, but there is one very nice thing about it.

I don't like merging everyone into the same kind of entity. I don't like taking that choice away from them. I don't care for the idea of a utopia, because I'm sure a utopian paradise would only be an illusion.

But I realized, I do really like the concept of offering your enemy forgiveness, despite all of the wrongs that they've done against you. And I think it was the Citadel DLC that made me come to realize that. There was a lot of beauty in forgiving your clone, offering to save him/her. That one positive act can save anyone and spare them more death. Which, again, to me seems too good to be true--and not everyone's going to take being changed on a molecular level very well. But the forgiveness aspect is still there, and perhaps StarChild has a point when asking if you really want to go out looking down the barrel of a gun.

Personally, though... I prefer Destruction. And the Citadel DLC also gives you a reason for that, as Anderson describes Shepard as a person who knows when the mission is more important than the squad, and sacrifices have to be made. You can end the cycle forever, and give everyone a chance to figure out that organics and synthetics CAN get along, without being fundamentally changed. But to do it, you have to sacrifice EDI and the geth, your allies. It's a huge price to pay, and a paragon Shepard is likely to be hit hard by it, if he/she survives. But you are paying the price for future generations, and creations, to decide their own fate.

[PainCakesx]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I have a lot of reasons I dislike the Synthesis ending, but there is one very nice thing about it.

I don't like merging everyone into the same kind of entity. I don't like taking that choice away from them. I don't care for the idea of a utopia, because I'm sure a utopian paradise would only be an illusion.

But I realized, I do really like the concept of offering your enemy forgiveness, despite all of the wrongs that they've done against you. And I think it was the Citadel DLC that made me come to realize that. There was a lot of beauty in forgiving your clone, offering to save him/her. That one positive act can save anyone and spare them more death. Which, again, to me seems too good to be true--and not everyone's going to take being changed on a molecular level very well. But the forgiveness aspect is still there, and perhaps StarChild has a point when asking if you really want to go out looking down the barrel of a gun.

Personally, though... I prefer Destruction. And the Citadel DLC also gives you a reason for that, as Anderson describes Shepard as a person who knows when the mission is more important than the squad, and sacrifices have to be made. You can end the cycle forever, and give everyone a chance to figure out that organics and synthetics CAN get along, without being fundamentally changed. But to do it, you have to sacrifice EDI and the geth, your allies. It's a huge price to pay, and a paragon Shepard is likely to be hit hard by it, if he/she survives. But you are paying the price for future generations, and creations, to decide their own fate.

I understand the notion for forgiveness, and I'm sure many people chose Destroy to get revenge on the Reapers.

From my view, Destroy is the safest choice - nothing to do with vengeance. Tech can be rebuilt, but leaving the Reapers intact seems incredibly risky - it's like leaving a loaded gun in a room full of children. The potential for damage is extreme. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 08 mars 2013 - 06:36 .

[Mr.House]

Citadel just makes it worse for me.

[PainCakesx]

Filament wrote...

jtav wrote...

But this DLC reninds me how much I love the day to day ME universe and my friends. I want to save *this* universe that I;ve come to love. The futuristic cities of the epilogue are beautiful, but they aren't home.  Even my friends and koved ones look different. I want them as they were, not ascended. I'm willing to trade my life for the verse, but so it can cintubue in the form I knew,

It sounds like you want to freeze your friends in carbonite and keep them perfectly the same forever and ever.

As someone who sympathesis for his point view, I can at least say for myself that it's not about freezing them as they were, but letting their progression as beings happen naturally. Not forced through genetic mutations.

As an example, I feel that as I grow older I mature and change over time. I am comfortable with that ideal. I wouldn't want, however, someone to reprogram my brain to "ascend" me, even if it supposedly improved me. 

[cerberus1701]

d-boy15 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Another OP that basically reads "It's all about me, baby! My Shepard, my Universe. Suffering people? Potential war? Who gives a crap! It's my Universe! MINE. MINE. MINE." and... wow. Well, let's just say that I have more respect for the people within my version of the ME Universe. I have more admiration and love for them. I want things to go right, I don't want to see them suffer with things any more (like Joker's incurable illness). So I choose Synthesis.

I'm not disenchanted at all. I know I've given Joker & EDI, the geth, and company a damn good shot at life. That's the best I could have done for them. Screw the clone's breath scene. My Shepard died for the good of them all. She always was selfless.

This guy has to be trolling.

Joker still limps out of the Normandy. Therefore, illness not cured.

Nah... he keep doing this for a month now.

His argument this week is destroy ruined Joker chance to get laid with sexbot. 

Yeah. I accept that EDI is more than the sum of her parts, but...

...that really doesn't negate the fact that why the relationship between the two ever started was Joker's near Fetishistic attachment to the Normandy.

Give it Trisha Helfer's voice and the outcome would have been the same even without the bot-bod.

He'll just have to find himself an organic chick.

[DeinonSlayer]

PainCakesx wrote...

Filament wrote...

jtav wrote...

But this DLC reninds me how much I love the day to day ME universe and my friends. I want to save *this* universe that I;ve come to love. The futuristic cities of the epilogue are beautiful, but they aren't home.  Even my friends and koved ones look different. I want them as they were, not ascended. I'm willing to trade my life for the verse, but so it can cintubue in the form I knew,

It sounds like you want to freeze your friends in carbonite and keep them perfectly the same forever and ever.

As someone who sympathesis for his point view, I can at least say for myself that it's not about freezing them as they were, but letting their progression as beings happen naturally. Not forced through genetic mutations.

As an example, I feel that as I grow older I mature and change over time. I am comfortable with that ideal. I wouldn't want, however, someone to reprogram my brain to "ascend" me, even if it supposedly improved me. 

"We're not telling people what to think... we're just showing them how."



*STAB*

[Xilizhra]

Can the Catalyst be trusted to remain at the helm even after Synthesis? Can Cayalyst 2.0 (a.k.a. Control Shep) be trusted not to one day reach the same conclusions as the Catalyst replaced? Those aren't isn't risks my Shepard would be willing to take. He was also unwilling to fundementally alter the very nature of life and the galactic civilizations he had fought to save, for all time.

The galaxy is the poorer if your Shepard is too weak to morally withstand all of the implications of their duty. But I suppose it's your prerogative.

In any case, the DLC does not change my decision.

[Brass_Buckles]

PainCakesx wrote...

I understand the notion for forgiveness, and I'm sure many people chose Destroy to get revenge on the Reapers.

From my view, Destroy is the safest choice - nothing to do with vengeance. Tech can be rebuilt, but leaving the Reapers intact seems incredibly risky - it's like leaving a loaded gun in a room full of children. The potential for damage is extreme. 

Again, my reason for choosing Destroy is to end the cycle, because I've already proven synthetics and organics can get along.  Not all of the geth would agree with my sacrificing them, but Legion would have understood.  I think so would EDI.  Sacrificing myself to become the Reaper Overlord doesn't make sense, because my Shepard knows herself, and absolute power would corrupt absolutely.  She's not very patient, and I have the odd feeling she'd be hacking comms etc. to make a troll of herself after a while for entertainment's sake.

And also because, well... it's what I set out to do.  In my first playthrough I was torn between Destroy and Synthesis.  I chose Destroy, because that was the mission, and I couldn't be sure I could trust the StarChild.  It didn't seem to be telling me everything.

But as much distaste as I've got, personally, for Synthesis, due to the "let's take everyone's free will" thing, and "Reapers are going to tell us everything and direct society" thing, and not to mention the lack of realism (DNA does not work that way), I can see why people like it.  You sacrifice yourself selflessly.  You forgive your enemy to build a new future.  And though they may be smarter, stronger, faster, better, everyone is still themselves.  No one else has to die.  Casualties are minimized.  You're basically a saint--even though you've cost society its right to decide its own direction and evolution.  And somehow, everything turns out okay (despite probably billions of people freaking out at the changes).

But I'd like to point out, it's okay to not be a saint.  Shepard is human, with human flaws (unless you played Saint Shepard of course).  If I agonized over my initial decision, how much more did Shepard agonize over it, with so many lives in the balance and no guarantee that any of the options provided would even work?  Knowing that she wouldn't be alive to try again, if she got it wrong?  Because the StarChild basically tells you in every option that you're going to die whatever you choose (high EMS proves it wrong, possibly, depending on your head canon).

I still don't particularly want to replay the ending.  As others have pointed out, Citadel makes a great post-ending DLC.  Especially with the Anderson autobiography notes.  It actually gets to the point where I wonder if maybe it wasn't initially intended as a post-ending DLC, with the Normandy limping in and requiring repairs, Anderson having bequeathed his apartment and belongings to Shepard since he had no children.  And then someone decided it couldn't be post-ending and changed it.