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[Xilizhra]

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


And yet you characterize Shepards who refuse to choose Control as being "weak," implicitly placing your own that chooses Control on a pedestal.

Specifically the ones who couldn't handle Control. Although I do consider genocide a sign of weakness.


Again, it's indicative of arrogance and a belief in one's own moral superiority that would somehow ensure that a Shepard that assumes control of the Reapers won't misuse the power at his/her disposal.

Some might. Mine won't. I know this because, again, she's my character and it's my place to decide.

If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

[DeinonSlayer]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, yes, you already got a head start on genocide. Well done.

I appreciate the compliment, but really, the quarians deserve most of the credit.

My canon cured the Genophage, sided with the Quarians (Geth VI forced a choice), and abandoned the Rachni Queen due to suspicion of indoctrination. Alternate Shepards have saved the Queen, saved the Breeder, abandoned the Breeder, sold Legion, killed Legion, made peace, cured with Wreav/Eve, convinced Mordin to back down, and shot Padok Wiks in the back and lied to Wrex about it.

...I think that's close to the full spectrum.

[Xilizhra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, yes, you already got a head start on genocide. Well done.

I appreciate the compliment, but really, the quarians deserve most of the credit.

My canon cured the Genophage, sided with the Quarians (Geth VI forced a choice), and abandoned the Rachni Queen due to suspicion of indoctrination. Alternate Shepards have saved the Queen, saved the Breeder, abandoned the Breeder, sold Legion, killed Legion, made peace, cured with Wreav/Eve, convinced Mordin to back down, and shot Padok Wiks in the back and lied to Wrex about it.

...I think that's close to the full spectrum.

You've not sided with the geth, I notice.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, yes, you already got a head start on genocide. Well done.

I appreciate the compliment, but really, the quarians deserve most of the credit.

My canon cured the Genophage, sided with the Quarians (Geth VI forced a choice), and abandoned the Rachni Queen due to suspicion of indoctrination. Alternate Shepards have saved the Queen, saved the Breeder, abandoned the Breeder, sold Legion, killed Legion, made peace, cured with Wreav/Eve, convinced Mordin to back down, and shot Padok Wiks in the back and lied to Wrex about it.

...I think that's close to the full spectrum.

You've not sided with the geth, I notice.

And I never will, thank you very much.

[Xilizhra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, yes, you already got a head start on genocide. Well done.

I appreciate the compliment, but really, the quarians deserve most of the credit.

My canon cured the Genophage, sided with the Quarians (Geth VI forced a choice), and abandoned the Rachni Queen due to suspicion of indoctrination. Alternate Shepards have saved the Queen, saved the Breeder, abandoned the Breeder, sold Legion, killed Legion, made peace, cured with Wreav/Eve, convinced Mordin to back down, and shot Padok Wiks in the back and lied to Wrex about it.

...I think that's close to the full spectrum.

You've not sided with the geth, I notice.

And I never will, thank you very much.

Given everything else you've done, I wonder why.

[Absaroka]

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...
If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

Gameplay morality systems are a poor metric for determining how moral a character actually is. Pure Paragon or otherwise, no Shepard is infallible.

[dsl08002]

To be honest I loathed all endings and nothing will change that.

The only ending i choosed was destroy, but even then tse endings are a blight on the ME universe.

I loved the Citadel dlc even if a clone was a cliche and bad

[Xilizhra]

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...
If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

Gameplay morality systems are a poor metric for determining how moral a character actually is. Pure Paragon or otherwise, no Shepard is infallible.

It's your prerogative to think so, but your thoughts have no bearing on the actions my Shepard will take as the Catalyst.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, yes, you already got a head start on genocide. Well done.

I appreciate the compliment, but really, the quarians deserve most of the credit.

My canon cured the Genophage, sided with the Quarians (Geth VI forced a choice), and abandoned the Rachni Queen due to suspicion of indoctrination. Alternate Shepards have saved the Queen, saved the Breeder, abandoned the Breeder, sold Legion, killed Legion, made peace, cured with Wreav/Eve, convinced Mordin to back down, and shot Padok Wiks in the back and lied to Wrex about it.

...I think that's close to the full spectrum.

You've not sided with the geth, I notice.

And I never will, thank you very much.

Given everything else you've done, I wonder why.

Same reason I've never murdered Falere. It's the action of a f***ing criminal.

This is not open for discussion, Xil. We've been down this road. I'd rather not start it again.

[azerSheppard]

OP:

" I don't like change" basically.

[dreamgazer]

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...
If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

Gameplay morality systems are a poor metric for determining how moral a character actually is. Pure Paragon or otherwise, no Shepard is infallible.

Sometimes the paragon choices aren't the "right" choices, only more dutiful.

Paragon & Renegade =/= Good & Bad

[DeinonSlayer]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, yes, you already got a head start on genocide. Well done.

I appreciate the compliment, but really, the quarians deserve most of the credit.

My canon cured the Genophage, sided with the Quarians (Geth VI forced a choice), and abandoned the Rachni Queen due to suspicion of indoctrination. Alternate Shepards have saved the Queen, saved the Breeder, abandoned the Breeder, sold Legion, killed Legion, made peace, cured with Wreav/Eve, convinced Mordin to back down, and shot Padok Wiks in the back and lied to Wrex about it.

...I think that's close to the full spectrum.

I think you might have mixed up Wrex with Wreav there.

I meant my canon cured with Wrex/Eve. The one who cured with Wreav/Eve couldn't bring herself to shoot Mordin, and ultimately chose Control as a means to sit on him.

[valkulon]

While it did make me want my Shepard to live he still choose Synthesis as that is what he believed was the best solution presented to him.

[Xilizhra]

Same reason I've never murdered Falere. It's the action of a f***ing criminal.

As opposed to... everything else?

I personally always make peace because there's no good choice otherwise. However, if forced into it... I would side with the geth for three reasons. One, you don't actually have to do anything; the quarians just doom themselves. Two, there are more geth than there are quarians. Three, wiping out the geth sets a dangerous precedent for the future, making it "okay" from then on to just destroy any synthetic race that seems dangerous. Far fewer would follow that precedent for organic races if the quarians all died.

[Absaroka]

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...
If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

Gameplay morality systems are a poor metric for determining how moral a character actually is. Pure Paragon or otherwise, no Shepard is infallible.

It's your prerogative to think so, but your thoughts have no bearing on the actions my Shepard will take as the Catalyst.

Neither do yours after the fact. All you can do is believe whatever actions the new Catalyst takes will not ultimately result in a cost to the galaxy that eclipses the cost of any of the other endings. 

[Xilizhra]

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...
If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

Gameplay morality systems are a poor metric for determining how moral a character actually is. Pure Paragon or otherwise, no Shepard is infallible.

It's your prerogative to think so, but your thoughts have no bearing on the actions my Shepard will take as the Catalyst.

Neither do yours after the fact. All you can do is believe whatever actions the new Catalyst takes will not ultimately result in a cost to the galaxy that eclipses the cost of any of the other endings. 

Given that my actions in-game directly change the actions and dialogue of Shepard as the Catalyst, I consider her to remain my character, and continue to control her actions indefinitely.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Same reason I've never murdered Falere. It's the action of a f***ing criminal.

As opposed to... everything else?

I personally always make peace because there's no good choice otherwise. However, if forced into it... I would side with the geth for three reasons. One, you don't actually have to do anything; the quarians just doom themselves. Two, there are more geth than there are quarians. Three, wiping out the geth sets a dangerous precedent for the future, making it "okay" from then on to just destroy any synthetic race that seems dangerous. Far fewer would follow that precedent for organic races if the quarians all died.

First off, Shepard is responsible regardless of which side dies. In the scenario you described, Shepard encourages the upload and, fully aware of the consequences, chooses not to inform the fleet that it's happening. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway. Second, there are more Quarians than Geth - I distinctly remember blowing up Heretic Station, and I don't count a pre-Reaper code VI with the intellect of a worker ant as on-par with a person. Finally, I don't give a damn about what precedent is being set when measured against that many lives. The Geth VI is an unrepentent killer. Legion is a reformed one. I won't choose a parolee with the blood of billions on his hands (who, mind you, signed with the Reapers) over millions of civilians whose only offense in this conflict is sitting in a cubicle in the cargo hold of a ship which had nowhere else to go.

[Xilizhra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Same reason I've never murdered Falere. It's the action of a f***ing criminal.

As opposed to... everything else?

I personally always make peace because there's no good choice otherwise. However, if forced into it... I would side with the geth for three reasons. One, you don't actually have to do anything; the quarians just doom themselves. Two, there are more geth than there are quarians. Three, wiping out the geth sets a dangerous precedent for the future, making it "okay" from then on to just destroy any synthetic race that seems dangerous. Far fewer would follow that precedent for organic races if the quarians all died.

First off, Shepard is responsible regardless of which side dies. In the scenario you described, Shepard encourages the upload and, fully aware of the consequences, chooses not to inform the fleet that it's happening. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway. Second, there are more Quarians than Geth - I distinctly remember blowing up Heretic Station, and I don't count a pre-Reaper code VI with the intellect of a worker ant as on-par with a person. Finally, I don't give a damn about what precedent is being set when measured against that many lives. The Geth VI is an unrepentent killer. Legion is a reformed one. I won't choose a parolee with the blood of billions on his hands (who, mind you, signed with the Reapers) over millions of civilians whose only offense in this conflict is sitting in a cubicle in the cargo hold of a ship which had nowhere else to go.

And this is why I make peace instead of doing that.

Of course, I rewrote the heretics. Which would also make the geth more useful against the Reapers than the quarians.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 mars 2013 - 08:09 .

[Absaroka]

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Absaroka wrote...
If you think like this, you really have decided your Shepard's morals beyond reproach.

I've seen nothing in the games to contradict this notion.

Gameplay morality systems are a poor metric for determining how moral a character actually is. Pure Paragon or otherwise, no Shepard is infallible.

It's your prerogative to think so, but your thoughts have no bearing on the actions my Shepard will take as the Catalyst.

Neither do yours after the fact. All you can do is believe whatever actions the new Catalyst takes will not ultimately result in a cost to the galaxy that eclipses the cost of any of the other endings. 

Given that my actions in-game directly change the actions and dialogue of Shepard as the Catalyst, I consider her to remain my character, and continue to control her actions indefinitely.

In that case, it's a good thing you're incapable of mistakes right?

The fact that the new Catalyst makes it clear it and the reapers will be sticking around (as opposed to just shutting down or flying into the nearest star) regardless of what you want shows that you do not have any true control anymore.  Whatever your Shepard was, that person has died after being fried.

[kaileena_sands]

 Woah, this topic quicly descended into arguments about this ending again. Gotta give credit to BSN where credit is due! 

Anyway, I never did like Synthesis at all, so the Citadel DLC did not change anything at all. To me, it was the worst ending with some horrible implications.

I've always bounced between Control and Destroy a lot. What I really don't like in Control is the possibility that Shepard is going to get corrupted in time. You know, absolute power corrupts absolutely and all. He/she may have ascended or whatever, but how do we know what exactly will happen it time? How do we know that the "solution" of the brat child is perfect, and indeed in the future Shep is not going to find a faulty solution herself.

Exactly for that matter, I do like a lot Control on a Renegade Shep. You know those little difference of the dialogue where instead of saying he/she's gonna protect and says he/she is going to lead an unstoppable army. I think that's actually a good implication for the future, and is a bit of a dark twist on the whole story if you like such things (and I do).

On the other hand, for my Paragon Shep, I like Destroy, though I spent so much time involved into the Geth arc (and I do like them genuinely) so it's always hard killing them. But destroying the Reapers is what ME has been all about, that's what Shep wanted, what Anderson wanted and the sacrifice just needed to have been made. Mind you, the whole killing all AI is a lot of crap for me, since apparently as we see in Control, it's quite easy to distinguish and control ONLY the Reapers, not the geth,  but whatever.

Modifié par kaileena_sands, 08 mars 2013 - 08:13 .

[whalewhisker]

Oof I could never ever chose Destroy. I've done both Synthesis and Control and I liked the latter a bit more. I was never satisfied by any of the endings, though.

[Xilizhra]

In that case, it's a good thing you're incapable of mistakes right?

The fact that the new Catalyst makes it clear it and the reapers will be sticking around (as opposed to just shutting down or flying into the nearest star) regardless of what you want shows that you do not have any true control anymore. Whatever your Shepard was, that person has died after being fried.

Hardly. My Shepard never wanted the Reapers destroyed as the primary objective; the primary objective is to stop the cycle. She just didn't know there was another possibility until right then. Knowing that, I don't want the Reapers destroyed either.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Same reason I've never murdered Falere. It's the action of a f***ing criminal.

As opposed to... everything else?

I personally always make peace because there's no good choice otherwise. However, if forced into it... I would side with the geth for three reasons. One, you don't actually have to do anything; the quarians just doom themselves. Two, there are more geth than there are quarians. Three, wiping out the geth sets a dangerous precedent for the future, making it "okay" from then on to just destroy any synthetic race that seems dangerous. Far fewer would follow that precedent for organic races if the quarians all died.

First off, Shepard is responsible regardless of which side dies. In the scenario you described, Shepard encourages the upload and, fully aware of the consequences, chooses not to inform the fleet that it's happening. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway. Second, there are more Quarians than Geth - I distinctly remember blowing up Heretic Station, and I don't count a pre-Reaper code VI with the intellect of a worker ant as on-par with a person. Finally, I don't give a damn about what precedent is being set when measured against that many lives. The Geth VI is an unrepentent killer. Legion is a reformed one. I won't choose a parolee with the blood of billions on his hands (who, mind you, signed with the Reapers) over millions of civilians whose only offense in this conflict is sitting in a cubicle in the cargo hold of a ship which had nowhere else to go.

And this is why I make peace instead of doing that.

Of course, I rewrote the heretics. Which would also make the geth more useful against the Reapers than the quarians.

Another reason our Shepards are fundamentally different. I think my Paragade pro-Cerberus Engineer FemShep might be the most similar to yours out of the entire lineup.

I suspect everyone has lines in-game which they simply will not cross. This is one of mine. Sorry if it came across that I was snapping at you - this is a bit of a hot topic to me. You're entitled to your opinion as well.

[Xilizhra]

I suspect everyone has lines in-game which they simply will not cross. This is one of mine. Sorry if it came across that I was snapping at you - this is a bit of a hot topic to me. You're entitled to your opinion as well.

By the way, you were incorrect in one line before: Shepard does try to inform the fleet of the geth upload, and Tali does as well (either that, or Shepard just gets Tali to do so). The only difference is that it fails in that instance; siding with the geth seems to be the more natural culmination of a failed attempt at peace.