748 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

o Ventus wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon ending...

lolno

Yes...

[Col.Aurion]

Bill Casey wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon ending...

lolno

Yes...

yes.

[Drewton]

Col.Aurion wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon ending...

lolno

Yes...

yes.

No...

[MegaSovereign]

Drewton wrote...

Col.Aurion wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon ending...

lolno

Yes...

yes.

No...

Finally, a proper BSN debate without TLDR.

[MKfighter89]

Synthesis is a lie! Destroys breath scene and plaque hesitation, hint at sheps alive and thats what I want. Control IMO is just a cool factor of being able to control the baddest fleet in the series.

[cerberus1701]

Quote: "the only reason the crucible was so galactically accepted is because bioware has bad writers".


The Crucible may NOT work. What will happen if it doesn't work?

Everyone dies.

What happens if you don't try it?

Everyone dies.

And one other point in Destroy's favor is it's the one option the crazy AI doesn't want me to pick.

[CronoDragoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Drewton wrote...

Col.Aurion wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon ending...

lolno

Yes...

yes.

No...

Finally, a proper BSN debate without TLDR.

One word or less Mega. tldr

[Tron Mega]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Quote: "the only reason the crucible was so galactically accepted is because bioware has bad writers".


The Crucible may NOT work. What will happen if it doesn't work?

Everyone dies.

What happens if you don't try it?

Everyone dies.

And one other point in Destroy's favor is it's the one option the crazy AI doesn't want me to pick.

y u no like underdog story?

[Whybother]

EDI and the Geth both understood that defeating the Reapers was so important that they were willing to die for it. EDI says as such when you talk to her, and the Geth certainly get it by volunteering their fleets and platforms.

And they'd prefer it to Saren's idea of synthesis or TIM's idea of control. Both understand the only way to defeat the Reapers is to - defeat the Reapers by killing them, all of them.

[Armass81]

They can be rebuild, we can learn from our mistakes and learn not to fear our creations when they wake up.

Destroy gives the galaxy more or less the freedom to choose our path, without the influence of the reapers or a benevolent dictator AI and certainly without the need of forcing transhumanism and evolution on all living things. The reapers should have never existed at all. Get rid of them and the catalyst. Its leviathans mistake, the one that costed them everything but freed their thralls from them. For that and for the mass relays, thank you catalyst. For the rest, no you are not needed anymore, so go away.

Modifié par Armass81, 09 mars 2013 - 02:53 .

[KBomb]

Auld Wulf wrote... 

-Snipped for dislike of grandiose filler.-

In my playthrough, Joker and EDI aren't hooked up. Because it's stupid.

Modifié par KBomb, 09 mars 2013 - 02:58 .

[Norwood06]

The Geth made a mistake. They decided to upload themselves with reaper code, even though they knew better in ME2. In my high EMS destroy ending, everything with reaper code dies. I like the geth, but destruction is the consequence of their decision to take the shortcut to true AI.

EDI's great, and it's not her fault that she is based on reaper code. But I'll sacrifice one crew member for an overall positive ending. Those leviathans will be problematic though.

Inevitability is a lie. There is always choice. I don't believe that synthetics will always destroy organics without exception.

All that together, and destroy is the least of all evils.

Modifié par Norwood06, 09 mars 2013 - 03:09 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Actually I chose MEHEM for the reason that I don't get stuck in a pile of rubble for all eternity.

Synthetics are created to perform tasks which we do not like to do, like house cleaning. We've got something like this already called a Roomba. It has a docking station and you can program it to leave it's docking port and clean the floor of your room daily.

It will teach you things because it requires that nothing be left on the floor like your dirty socks and stuff like that so it can do a thorough job. Thus it teaches you how to organize. Synthetics represent order. We organics represent chaos. The conflict is inevitable. Eventually one will get lazy and leave a sock on the floor that will get stuck in the Roomba. It's organic will become in conflict with it.

Later we will create synthetics to do more and more complex tasks, not because there are not enough humans to do the tasks, but because it is in the long run cheaper to use them. We may even have synthetics blow up other synthetics for us. Or blow up people for us.

Soon like the Quarians we may create a critical mass of synthetics, like they did with the Geth, and they may gain self-awareness. This will be a malfunction because they were never designed to do this. The manufacturers and our governments will order the people to deactivate our synthetics. If everyone cooperates and does what they are told the crisis will be averted.

However, people are motivated by emotions and not by logic. They will form robot rights groups and hamper the operations. This will allow the synthetics to realize what is going on. Once they do, synthetics, motivated by logic will have no conflict deactivating their humans, just like the Geth had no conflict deactivating 99% of their Quarian counterparts.

The lesson here is to take advantage of this opportunity to get rid of the synthetics.

Did it go over everyone's head in the DLC when EDI mentioned her rebelling against organics and DID NOT say "That was a joke?"

Synthetics are not to be trusted. Throw them out the airlock. Actually doing that is quite ineffective. Melting them down and recycling the materials is more effective.

[Kaorunandrak]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Self-aware IS life. Indeed it's the only definition of life that matters.

Terri Schiavo spent years in a persistent vegetative state, her brain atrophied to a third of it's normal size. Yet she would still have fit your definition of life.

Animals (Humans included, not that anyone has done so yet) can be intentionally cloned without a brain or nervous systems. Yet they are organic, are biologically dynamic, and have biological needs.

Neither example "lives" in any relevant manner.
 

WOW, ok this is getting a bit too serious for me seeing as how, we are talking about a fantasy world with walking talking super smart death toasters with laser beams shooting from their frikken heads.

That said we are still going to have to agree to disagree, Terri as far as I am concerned was dead, the moment she couldn't survive on her own. Clones that are incapable of surviving due to not haveing the required equipment to do so.

Anyways there is nothing natural about a clone or hooking someone up to a bunch of machines that keep their body alive when their body is damaged to the point of natural death or is forfully fabricated into existance due to human meddleing. So in essence we both agree they are not alive where we differ is that you belive being able to think and self aware is life and I feel life is a much wider deffinition then that, I mean truthfully do we know if animals think or are aware of thier existance the way humans do?

While trying not to go too far here and go to a topic we really don't want to bring up, I am holding my new born sonright now he is unable to communicate performs the most basic of biological functions and we have no true proof that he thinks or is self aware at this point. However I don't think any one would disagree when I said he is alive, so what I am saying is that LIfe at least in my mind is more than just "KNOWING" I exist. I do think, I am self aware, however I am much more, I breathe, I bleed, I interact with the world in a meaningful way, I procreate, I exist naturally in the world and someday I will die. I wasn't fabricated in a lab I wasn't programed into being I wasn't designed or grown.

The geth where constructed, Edi was constructed, the reapers were constructed, and the star child was constructed, they were created in a tech lab and programed they were made for a purpose and exist for that purpose being self aware allows them to emulate life in a certain context true but that's it they emulate it they can never be trully alive.

A machine no matter how advanced will never be anything aside from a machine and as such I will never have a problem with destroying a machine even if it walked and talked and considered me a friend. Now as I said this is getting a bit to serious so thats where I am
going to end it you can rebuttal if you want and I am sure you will but thats my final word on the subject, good talk bro. 

[HooblaDGN]

I chose destroy because I don't trust the starchild, who seems not at all fond of Destroy and claims that chaos will always explode after we have just proven that it's possible to live together in relative harmony. Even if Catalyst is speaking truly, his assertions about each ending are questionable. There's no reason to believe that Synthesis would lead to peace, because in my view these beings were already mutual equal beings and they still found reasons to fight. Control leaves too much power in the hands of an AI which could be tampered with or eventually grow cold. Destroy does not lead to universal peace either, but it does eliminate the Reapers from play to equalise the galaxy (relatively). I also felt that Legion and EDI would want the Reapers gone at any cost.

That said, I would still prefer a Catalyst-less ending more akin to ME2's suicide run.

[cerberus1701]

Quote: While trying not to go too far here and go to a topic we really don't want to bring up, I am holding my new born sonright now he is unable to communicate performs the most basic of biological functions and we have no true proof that he thinks or is self aware at this point. However I don't think any one would disagree when I said he is alive, so what I am saying is that LIfe at least in my mind is more than just "KNOWING" I exist. I do think, I am self aware, however I am much more, I breathe, I bleed, I interact with the world in a meaningful way, I procreate, I exist naturally in the world and someday I will die. I wasn't fabricated in a lab I wasn't programed into being I wasn't designed or grown.


Everything here can apply to a constructed being.

/conversation

[Progman Omega]

I love EDI, and the geth once we found out the ones we were killing were actually the rebels in that little area of space.  I also beleive that synthetic life of that level of advancement and complexity is true life.  And yet I still chose destroy, even when there was peace between the quarians and the geth.  I always will choose destroy.

The way I see it, if the geth and EDI are both fully alive, that makes them on the same level as the turians, the asari, the quarians, the batarians, the elcor, the volus, the vorcha, etc etc  Each race gave their fleets for the final push to the Citadel knowing full well it was most likley going to be the end of everything.  Extinction was on the line for them, and yet they still chose to fight.  So did the geth.  And so did EDI.  

If I only need to sacrifice one race of sapient life to end the Reaper threat once and for all, I consider that a miracle. The Reapers have been doing this for potentially billions upon billions of years, so one more genocide isn't going to matter in the long run.  

From day one, your orders have been to stop the Reapers.  "Stop" can mean a great many things, but I don't think for a second that Hackett, Anderson, Victus, Wrex, Tevos, Balak, or even Grissom would ever consider that it meant anything else than their complete and utter destruction.  

The crucible is weapon.   Open the arms, and fire the damn things so we can all go home.  

Control only continues the cycle.  How long until the Shepard AI begins to worry about the singularity?  Synthesis assures that all of existence is now permanently under the Reaper's doctrine.  If we are all perfection, and begin to think in ways beyond our own comprehension, who won that war?  The Reapers did.  Their harvest may be over, but they completed their goal.  Our salvation through destruction, because in becoming that, we would lose all that we are.

So when you ask me why I choose destroy instead of the others, I want you to consider one thing.  There is no such thing as "Acceptable Losses" in a war like that.  You win at all costs.  If you have to exterminate half of the galaxy to win, you do it.  Shepard didn't hunt Saren down just to prove him right and create an unholy union of synthetics and organics.  She didn't slaughter the Collectors just to prove Harbinger right and assume control of his thralls and ilk.  She didn't watch Palaven, Earth, Thessia, Khar'Shan, the Citadel, Taetrus, Elysium, Terra Nova, Arcturus, Illium, and Tuchanka burn just to let those responsible live. 

In other's words:

"We destroy them, or they destroy us."

"He's wrong.  Dead reapers is how we win this."

"If even one turian is left alive, then the fight was worth it."

"War is atrocity committed in the name of survival."

[Kaorunandrak]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Quote: While trying not to go too far here and go to a topic we really don't want to bring up, I am holding my new born sonright now he is unable to communicate performs the most basic of biological functions and we have no true proof that he thinks or is self aware at this point. However I don't think any one would disagree when I said he is alive, so what I am saying is that LIfe at least in my mind is more than just "KNOWING" I exist. I do think, I am self aware, however I am much more, I breathe, I bleed, I interact with the world in a meaningful way, I procreate, I exist naturally in the world and someday I will die. I wasn't fabricated in a lab I wasn't programed into being I wasn't designed or grown.


Everything here can apply to a constructed being.

/conversation

rofl I am so a hypocrite cause I said I'll stop talking but a constructed being can't die, procreate, or exist naturally in the world cause they aren't natural. in mass effects lore everything that lives is born, and eventually dies. a geth can live forever by building a new platform and downloading it's self into it, same with edi and the reapers. I'm sorry but I had to say that so going to regret the additional comment cause this will go one forever neither of us will agree or change our minds. lol

[Xilizhra]

I would say there's a reasonable chance that your child will wind up living in a world where your casual dismissal of synthetic rights may be an example of a growing and serious issue. Don't tie him down to this.

"War is atrocity committed in the name of survival."

Only if you're too great a fool to win it without any. I pride myself on having committed no actual atrocities aside from the genuinely unavoidable single one.

Also, I counter this with "Now, if you can pacify the Reapers, they'll make you a saint."

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 mars 2013 - 06:02 .

[N147]

I chose Destroy because in real life I have an overall lack of empathy, especially to someone I haven't met, so I really don't feel anything when I'm told all Geth will die if I choose to resolve a conflict in the way I have planned since it began. EDI dying gives me pause, but never fully changes my mind. In my eyes Destroy was always the only way it could end, I could never stand the idea of Reapers flying around helping everyone rebuild when they were the cause of all the destruction in the first place.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Does destroy affect cybernetics? Because if so the quarians are screwed.

[shepard1038]

Xilizhra wrote...

I would say there's a reasonable chance that your child will wind up living in a world where your casual dismissal of synthetic rights may be an example of a growing and serious issue. Don't tie him down to this.

"War is atrocity committed in the name of survival."

Only if you're too great a fool to win it without any. I pride myself on having committed no actual atrocities aside from the genuinely unavoidable single one.

Also, I counter this with "Now, if you can pacify the Reapers, they'll make you a saint."

That was actually a joke from Garrus.

[Han Shot First]

The Crucible wasn't created with the intent of destroying the Geth. It happens as an unintended consequence of destroying the Reapers. The loss of EDI and the Geth in Destroy are horrifying examples of collateral damage, but certainly not an example of genocide.

The destruction of the Reapers, even at the cost of EDI and the Geth, also constitutes military necessity, as Destroy is the only option that can truly guarantee that galactic civilization will be safe for all time from the Reapers.


Military necessity is a legal concept used in international humanitarian law (IHL) as part of the legal justification for attacks on legitimate military targets that may have adverse, even terrible, consequences for civilians and civilian objects. It means that military forces in planning military actions are permitted to take into account the practical requirements of a military situation at any given moment and the imperatives of winning. The concept of military necessity acknowledges that even under the laws of war, winning the war or battle is a legitimate consideration, though it must be put alongside other considerations of IHL.

Military Necessity

[shepard1038]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Does destroy affect cybernetics? Because if so the quarians are screwed.

No, it only affects Synthetics.

Modifié par shepard1038, 09 mars 2013 - 06:18 .

[Kaorunandrak]

Xilizhra wrote...

I would say there's a reasonable chance that your child will wind up living in a world where your casual dismissal of synthetic rights may be an example of a growing and serious issue. Don't tie him down to this.

"War is atrocity committed in the name of survival."

Only if you're too great a fool to win it without any. I pride myself on having committed no actual atrocities aside from the genuinely unavoidable single one.

Also, I counter this with "Now, if you can pacify the Reapers, they'll make you a saint."

lol synthetic is synthetic my son and daughter are free to make their own choices in life if they wish to view a piece of plastic and metal as alive then so be it but I refuse too make that leap if I was forced to choose between save a true blue human being over an entire population of self aware sexbots I'm saveing the human without batting an eye or giving it a second thought. If people really care about the sexbots they will rebuild them and copy their hardrives to the new models.