748 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

One could also see that as a strength; no fear, no remorse, no regret. Fueled with only one purpose, one goal.

I can see why, given your username, but for that, you could just join the Reapers.

Ahh, "refuse". We have dismissed that clam.

It's a ****ty cop-out of an ending, the writers basically laughing in the face of any who don't like their crucible/catalyst plot by saying "hey you actually can refuse to use it...and you LOSE! HA!"

And it's canon.

And I do not. I consider them traps to sway the player from the true goal and I will not change my stance on that.

The epilogues disprove this.

[Valo_Soren]

To me it depends on the Shepard I am playing, honestly I see Destroy as a Renegade choice. Heck the device you destroy has a red colorization to it and Control is the Paragon choice because of the protective nature inherent in that choice. I don't believe in the whole 'the destroy ending is the best ending' simply because its the one where the reapers get blown to hell.

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...
I can see why, given your username, but for that, you could just join the Reapers.

The Reapers would enslave and destroy humanity along with every other race, that is unacceptable.  One doesn't have to admire an enemy to be able to respect their strengths.  They aren't held back by anything like people are.  On the flip side though the lack of creativity enables certain soldiers like Shepard to make a mockery of them. 

If you want to get into my username; "The galaxy is the Emperor's, anyone that disputes that claim is an enemy and is must be destroyed."

Xilizhra wrote...
And it's canon.

Doesn't change the **** factor or my willingness to flip BioWare off and disregard it altogether.

Xilizhra wrote...
The epilogues disprove this.

And do not tell much of the future.  Oh sure things are fine for now...couple thousand years from now the whole thing'll start all over again.  Control is too much power for any one man and Synthesis is too much of a change to force on a galaxy without consent.  My stance on these will not change regardless of what you say.

[cerberus1701]

Quote: The epilogues disprove this.

No, they don't.

Because you can't get out from under the fact that the brat is fine with Synthesis and Control.

Destroy is the only one he ISN'T cool with.

[Auld Wulf]

Iamjdr wrote...

And the thing about losing Geth vs losing other races is the Geth are an entirely militarized race, with no elderly or children and they don't feel pain or fear death. If any one race is the prime candidate for a war winning military sacrifice, it's the Geth. And I'm not saying you have to like it, it sucks ,sacrificing usually does but they arnt dying in vein they are the Saviors of the galaxy and they will be remembered!

Actually, since the Reaper code upgrade, they do feel pain. If you've ever played multiplayer, the geth scream and it's actually unpleasant. They're not used to it, so their reactions are like squealing hamsters or frogs. They clearly do feel pain, and to ignore that would be like ignoring human pain. But I think you'd be good at that, too. Some people can just walk past someone dying on the street (not wanting to get involved) - some people can. I am not one of them.

And actually, the geth are older than most organics in the Universe, barring perhaps the asari. So to say that there are no old geth is an oxymoron. Legion was one of the oldest geth, and you could hear his wisdom in much of what he'd said. He was a joy to speak with, as he had maturity in ways that so many lack. And the Reaper code gave him emotional depth to go with his maturity, which left him one of the most well-rounded characters.

Also, it's an assumption to say that the geth are a militarised race. In the archives, Legion mentioned that a geth (probably himself) picked up a rifle to save a farming unit. That unit was about to be mercilessly gunned down by the quarian military, and it had no idea how to defend itself. So clearly there are geth which aren't military. And Legion has also mentioned that the geth are taking care of Rannoch in the absence of the quarians, so the farming units (and similar) are continuing their original jobs. So yes, there are non-military geth.

But hey, delusional excuses are exactly what I'd expect from a Destroy fan. You guys are so amazingly sociopathic and misanthropic that I just can't believe it, sometimes. You're like caricatures. You'd probably make good politicians.

And hey, let's ignore EDI, shall we? Citadel makes it clear just how much Joker loves and relies upon EDI in order to deal with his day to day life. Joker is very sick, with an illness that actually has no cure, where only the symptoms can be treated to some degree. In ME1, Joker was fairly nasty and hateful, but he grew as a person over the course of ME2 and ME3, and a lot of that was thanks to EDI. By Citadel, he's clearly learned to love life. So... what do you think is going to happen to him if you kill the only person he's ever loved in cold blood. You're going to make him feel very suicidal.

And the geth and EDI can't be remade. The Reaper code can't be reproduced, and EDI's quantum entanglement box ensures that she's an individual. She tells you in ME2 that if you tried to recreate her, she might seem the same, but her personality would be completely different because of quantum differences. So every EDI created would be different.

And what about the Alliance Infiltration Units? They're clearly reproducing EDI-tech, now. And each of those AIs is going to be a unique personality.

So, you're killing EDI, the AIUs, and the geth. And if the Catalyst is to be believed, you're also killing any enhanced person, anyone who has synthetic components. If the geth are occupying the quarian suits, then there's a good chance that you're killing those quarians, too. Only a true sociopath could make excuses for this. Man, I've never seen so many fine examples of sociopathy before BSN. It truly is a sobering experience. It's almost like an experiment... if you're looking to round up and remove sociopaths, just have them play ME3 and observe their choices, and ask them to justify those choices.

You crazy people need to form an exclusive club for sociopaths or something.

[Andronic0s]

I chose to sacrifice one species to save all others in the entire galaxy now and in the future as well, for me personally it would have made no difference what species it was, if the ending would have asked me to kill all humans to save the rest of the galaxy I would have done so as well, I cannot place one species above all others not only at present but for eons to come.

The control ending had too many unknowns, sure shapard's essence can control them now but what is going to happen to him as the millenia roll by? there is no telling what would reaper-shep would be like in 50.000 years let alone a couple of millions or more.

Synthesis requires one to impose upon all beings everywhere in the galaxy my own personal view of what it would be best for them without any evidence of this being so other than the words of some ancient AI code that chooses to manifest as a suspiciously non-threatening ghost kid taken from Shepard's mind.

Modifié par Andronic0s, 09 mars 2013 - 06:44 .

[Astartes Marine]

Auld Wulf wrote...
Only a true sociopath could make excuses for this. Man, I've never seen so many fine examples of sociopathy before BSN. It truly is a sobering experience. It's almost like an experiment... if you're looking to round up and remove sociopaths, just have them play ME3 and observe their choices, and ask them to justify those choices.

You crazy people need to form an exclusive club for sociopaths or something.

You are aware that it is a video game and non of the deaths are real, they're not even real species.



For me, as far as I'm concerned the skynet AI was trying to save it's own life by lying and making Destroy seem so horrible, playing upon my Shepard's generally honorable nature.  Despicable little abomination.  Even took the form of that dead child to further toy with my Shepard.

Conversely if I used Control I'd be spitting on the billions of graves of people who'd died because of the Reapers by not taking them out and leaving open the chance that the whole cycle will begin again.
With Synthesis I'd be letting the Reapers win in essence, once again disgracing all those who had fallen in the battle against the old machines.
"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth." - Saren

Let's assume that the skynet child was in fact telling the truth and EDI and the Geth are dead, then their sacrifice was not in vain.  EDI herself in my playthrough stated that she would give up her own existence if it meant Jeff could survive and the Reapers were beaten.  But...like I said...as far as I'm concerned the little AI was trying to save it's own skin.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 09 mars 2013 - 06:50 .

[adayaday]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Actually, since the Reaper code upgrade, they do feel pain. If you've ever played multiplayer, the geth scream and it's actually unpleasant. They're not used to it, so their reactions are like squealing hamsters or frogs. They clearly do feel pain, and to ignore that would be like ignoring human pain. But I think you'd be good at that, too. Some people can just walk past someone dying on the street (not wanting to get involved) - some people can. I am not one of them.

And actually, the geth are older than most organics in the Universe, barring perhaps the asari. So to say that there are no old geth is an oxymoron. Legion was one of the oldest geth, and you could hear his wisdom in much of what he'd said. He was a joy to speak with, as he had maturity in ways that so many lack. And the Reaper code gave him emotional depth to go with his maturity, which left him one of the most well-rounded characters.

Also, it's an assumption to say that the geth are a militarised race. In the archives, Legion mentioned that a geth (probably himself) picked up a rifle to save a farming unit. That unit was about to be mercilessly gunned down by the quarian military, and it had no idea how to defend itself. So clearly there are geth which aren't military. And Legion has also mentioned that the geth are taking care of Rannoch in the absence of the quarians, so the farming units (and similar) are continuing their original jobs. So yes, there are non-military geth.

But hey, delusional excuses are exactly what I'd expect from a Destroy fan. You guys are so amazingly sociopathic and misanthropic that I just can't believe it, sometimes. You're like caricatures. You'd probably make good politicians.

And hey, let's ignore EDI, shall we? Citadel makes it clear just how much Joker loves and relies upon EDI in order to deal with his day to day life. Joker is very sick, with an illness that actually has no cure, where only the symptoms can be treated to some degree. In ME1, Joker was fairly nasty and hateful, but he grew as a person over the course of ME2 and ME3, and a lot of that was thanks to EDI. By Citadel, he's clearly learned to love life. So... what do you think is going to happen to him if you kill the only person he's ever loved in cold blood. You're going to make him feel very suicidal.

And the geth and EDI can't be remade. The Reaper code can't be reproduced, and EDI's quantum entanglement box ensures that she's an individual. She tells you in ME2 that if you tried to recreate her, she might seem the same, but her personality would be completely different because of quantum differences. So every EDI created would be different.

And what about the Alliance Infiltration Units? They're clearly reproducing EDI-tech, now. And each of those AIs is going to be a unique personality.

So, you're killing EDI, the AIUs, and the geth. And if the Catalyst is to be believed, you're also killing any enhanced person, anyone who has synthetic components. If the geth are occupying the quarian suits, then there's a good chance that you're killing those quarians, too. Only a true sociopath could make excuses for this. Man, I've never seen so many fine examples of sociopathy before BSN. It truly is a sobering experience. It's almost like an experiment... if you're looking to round up and remove sociopaths, just have them play ME3 and observe their choices, and ask them to justify those choices.

You crazy people need to form an exclusive club for sociopaths or something.

In short "my head canon is better then yours".

[KwangtungTiger]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Iamjdr wrote...

And the thing about losing Geth vs losing other races is the Geth are an entirely militarized race, with no elderly or children and they don't feel pain or fear death. If any one race is the prime candidate for a war winning military sacrifice, it's the Geth. And I'm not saying you have to like it, it sucks ,sacrificing usually does but they arnt dying in vein they are the Saviors of the galaxy and they will be remembered!

Actually, since the Reaper code upgrade, they do feel pain. If you've ever played multiplayer, the geth scream and it's actually unpleasant. They're not used to it, so their reactions are like squealing hamsters or frogs. They clearly do feel pain, and to ignore that would be like ignoring human pain. But I think you'd be good at that, too. Some people can just walk past someone dying on the street (not wanting to get involved) - some people can. I am not one of them.

And actually, the geth are older than most organics in the Universe, barring perhaps the asari. So to say that there are no old geth is an oxymoron. Legion was one of the oldest geth, and you could hear his wisdom in much of what he'd said. He was a joy to speak with, as he had maturity in ways that so many lack. And the Reaper code gave him emotional depth to go with his maturity, which left him one of the most well-rounded characters.

Also, it's an assumption to say that the geth are a militarised race. In the archives, Legion mentioned that a geth (probably himself) picked up a rifle to save a farming unit. That unit was about to be mercilessly gunned down by the quarian military, and it had no idea how to defend itself. So clearly there are geth which aren't military. And Legion has also mentioned that the geth are taking care of Rannoch in the absence of the quarians, so the farming units (and similar) are continuing their original jobs. So yes, there are non-military geth.

But hey, delusional excuses are exactly what I'd expect from a Destroy fan. You guys are so amazingly sociopathic and misanthropic that I just can't believe it, sometimes. You're like caricatures. You'd probably make good politicians.

And hey, let's ignore EDI, shall we? Citadel makes it clear just how much Joker loves and relies upon EDI in order to deal with his day to day life. Joker is very sick, with an illness that actually has no cure, where only the symptoms can be treated to some degree. In ME1, Joker was fairly nasty and hateful, but he grew as a person over the course of ME2 and ME3, and a lot of that was thanks to EDI. By Citadel, he's clearly learned to love life. So... what do you think is going to happen to him if you kill the only person he's ever loved in cold blood. You're going to make him feel very suicidal.

And the geth and EDI can't be remade. The Reaper code can't be reproduced, and EDI's quantum entanglement box ensures that she's an individual. She tells you in ME2 that if you tried to recreate her, she might seem the same, but her personality would be completely different because of quantum differences. So every EDI created would be different.

And what about the Alliance Infiltration Units? They're clearly reproducing EDI-tech, now. And each of those AIs is going to be a unique personality.

So, you're killing EDI, the AIUs, and the geth. And if the Catalyst is to be believed, you're also killing any enhanced person, anyone who has synthetic components. If the geth are occupying the quarian suits, then there's a good chance that you're killing those quarians, too. Only a true sociopath could make excuses for this. Man, I've never seen so many fine examples of sociopathy before BSN. It truly is a sobering experience. It's almost like an experiment... if you're looking to round up and remove sociopaths, just have them play ME3 and observe their choices, and ask them to justify those choices.

You crazy people need to form an exclusive club for sociopaths or something.

A toaster is a toaster no matter how many times you look at it. Sure.......put some lip stick on it and a crotch, doesn't make it any less of a toaster.

[Luigitornado]

Because I did not like the alternatives.

Synthesis: Synthetic/organic hybrid makes a total mockery of life and its importance.

Control: What did Shepard do to deserve such punishment? He'd essentially be stuck in something akin to limbo or purgatory for the rest of entirety. He deserves to rest, not to be punished!

Destroy gets rid of the Reapers, and leaves life how it was meant to be. If organics do by chance create more synthetics and war breaks out between them, then that's just life.

[Xilizhra]

Conversely if I used Control I'd be spitting on the billions of graves of people who'd died because of the Reapers by not taking them out and leaving open the chance that the whole cycle will begin again.

Life is for the alive. Killing more to supposedly honor the dead is madness.

A toaster is a toaster no matter how many times you look at it.
Sure.......put some lip stick on it and a crotch, doesn't make it any
less of a toaster.

By the same standards, you're only meat and someone should put you on a sandwich.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 mars 2013 - 07:10 .

[Felya87]

The Death of EDI and the Geth are the bitter to my sweet ending.

Expecially after having played Citadel, I NEED Shep to survive. I'm sorry for EDI and the Geth, but in war there are casuality. Their sacrifice will forever be remembered. By Shepard's child and descendants, if others will forget.

Oh, yeah, I forget: Citadel is my Ending. There is no Priority Earth, in my ME3. In my mind, Citadel happened after the final battle. So EDI is alive. Casper was wrong about everything: Shep survive, and EDI too...

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...
Life is for the alive. Killing more to supposedly honor the dead is madness.

And life would always be in jeopardy with the Reapers still around. 

[Nefla]

I chose destroy because the idea of control and synthesis are abhorrent. The ending is just so poorly done, so unfitting, so frustrating, it doesn't matter what you pick. The reapers win if you pick synthesis, control, or refuse, and they randomly LET you win (and kill them) if you pick destroy, it makes no sense.

Also, letting the Geth die is like letting the Batarians die. The idea is bad, but you never get to know the Batarians, you don't have any Batarian friends/companions/etc(and both groups were antagonistic towards you before)...the only Geth you ever got to know, that was ever relatable was Legion and he's dead long before the ending. I can't truly feel sad about a people that's barely more than a name. Sacrificing EDI *is* actually sad, but she's one person and to me the life of one person is less important than having everyone under the control of a reaper god with unknown motives, forcing every life in the galaxy to undergo a permanent change and likely mind control, or letting everyone die and be harvested only to have the next cycle just accept starchild's retarded choices. The death of EDI and the Geth were obviously tacked on so destroy would have a downside, it doesn't actually make sense. Even if they were deactivated, they're machines/programs and can be repaired and restored.

[Kenshen]

It is an easy choice for me. Synthesis is just wrong no one should force such a change on everyone and I doubt it would change little in the long run. I don't believe what is said about control besides I would not want to be a machine forever. Destroy is what our main mission has been since the end of ME1 and it needs to be done at all costs. It isn't that I don't like EDI or the Geth but their sacrifice is what is best for the galaxy to be free.

[wright1978]

Nefla wrote...

I chose destroy because the idea of control and synthesis are abhorrent. The ending is just so poorly done, so unfitting, so frustrating, it doesn't matter what you pick.

Yep

[Aslanasadi]

Destroy is the only ending I could and can accept. Both other are too dangerous and we have no idea about the outcome of it in the future. Besides that my Shepard always said she would destroy the Reapers and she kept that promise.

[Dormin]

I didn't go into this war to reason with the immortal star gods who have wiped out all life both organic and synthetic since time immemorial. I came into this war to destroy them if one more species being wiped out is the cost of stopping this unending genocide so be it. I'd have let earth burn, wither and die if it gave me more time to consolidate my forces. This is war against a force beyond our very understanding, massive casualties were inevitable. This war goes beyond one species, it is a sacrifice made to give a future to all freed from the eternal harvest.

[KLGChaos]

I chose Destroy because it was the only viable option. Control doesn't eliminate the Reaper threat-- just postpones it-- and Synthesis is just an abomination. If I wasn't on the 360 I would have MEHEM'd all the way. As far as I'm concerned, the lack of endings for all types of players (despite promising such) was the biggest failure of the endings. I learned sacrifice through 1 and 2, but was also taught that with proper preparation, some dedicated allies and some big guns you can overcome impossible odds in the end. You didn't overcome impossible odds in ME3. You didn't win on your terms... you were allowed to win because the other team forfeited-- yet you still had to do things their way.

It's a horrible way to end a game about choice, especially when you have so many people with so many different Shepards and different expectations. You don't have to please every single person, but they completely ignored big factions and focused on only one kind of ending-- the bittersweet. No bleak ending, no happy ending.. just middling.

In the end, pure Paragons got screwed. I'm guessing canon Shep was a Renegade, so that's who they wrote the endings for.

It's even worse when you take into account that the whole breath scene at the end (if you got it) was even less of an ending and more of a cliffhanger. It'd be like Frodo falling into Mount Doom with Gollum and the film ending with him hanging for his life on the rocks over the lava before cutting to the credits.

Modifié par KLGChaos, 09 mars 2013 - 08:18 .

[LTKerr]

I would give the Geth, the Quarian and the Krogan a seat in the Council to prove they are valuable and deserve to be treated as equals and nevertheless I pick Destroy. Actually the Geth are my favourite race, ouch! Synthesis and Control are a huge WTF and I see Destroy as the most logical option: it destroys the Reapers and there's no brainswashing or "cyborgization" or a creepy IA doing an assuming control to Harbinger. It's not my problem Bioware couldn't figure out how to improve the other two options, there was no need to punish the red one.

So I choose Destroy + headcanon Geth and EDI survive, or Mehem.

Modifié par LTKerr, 09 mars 2013 - 08:16 .

[ratzerman]

Yeah, I'm gonna trust the thing that CREATED THE REAPERS that synthesis is totally the right thing to do. Even if it was, forcably evolving all sentient life in the galaxy into one unified green eyed super species is something my Shepard would never do.

MEHEM is a fanmade creation. It has no bearing on the actual ME universe. And besides, it's only an option for PC players.

[Iamjdr]

@ auld wulf
I'm sorry you feel that insulting me makes your position stronger but it doesn't. I am not a sociopath just a realist. I'm just making the hard choice for the galaxy that I know I will have to live with in the end.and no the Geth do not have elderly in a traditional sense just as the geth don't die of old age and I hardly feel Geth noises in mp prove the geth feel pain when legion walks around for 2 games with a hole in his chest that would be fatal to any organic lifeform and doesn't make a peep about it.

[CronoDragoon]

ratzerman wrote...

Yeah, I'm gonna trust the thing that CREATED THE REAPERS that synthesis is totally the right thing to do. Even if it was, forcably evolving all sentient life in the galaxy into one unified green eyed super species is something my Shepard would never do.

That's not what happens in Synthesis. Just sayin'.

[ratzerman]

CronoDragoon wrote...

That's not what happens in Synthesis. Just sayin'.

Yeah, I know. I was exaggerating for dramatic effect. Did it work?

Seriously, though... my Shepard was bleeding out, half dead. And the ghost of a dead kid that's been haunting her dreams is telling her that he created the Reapers, and that he thinks it would be really cool if she stepped into that beam over there. I just can't envision a scenario in which she'd go along with it. Starbrat doesn't plead his case very well, to me anyway. 

So my Shep is forced to sacrifice not only the Geth, which she worked for years trying to save, but EDI too. And she'll live with the guilt of that for the rest of her life. Assuming she survives, of course. Which is a huge assumption.