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The writers of ME3 should have killed their darlings


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#76
Applepie_Svk

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WarGriffin wrote...


Yeah the Star Kid didn't help his case when he started with an oxymoron.

There is no such thing as final Evolution, Since The theory states, species must always adapt to thier enviroment since the enviroment is gradually and constantly changing, Species must always graudually and constantly adapt.

Granted synthesis has nothing to do with Evolution, It's all about connect the galalxy into a unified whole race, cause... IDK Maybe they didn't think there was gonna be a 4.


Pretty much, by my opinion is synthesis just a different kind of control...
While by control you´ve become the police outside a society, in the synthesis you´ve just installed everyone into one big hive mind just to control the flow of thoughts. - one reference is Matrix or also 1984, how can you realize that you´re living in illusion...
Control was everything what Leviathans knew, as much Reapers - so why we should take a premise of one of Reapers to be saint ? How can you bring peace betwen the organics and synthetics instantly, it´s insane - the peace betwen two sides can take a years to estabilish not to mentioned to stoping a hate, if synthesis isn´t going to change everyone´s thinking then it´s flawed, because now instead of organics vs synthetics it could be just an ex-organic-hybrids vs ex-synthetics-hybrids.
It reminds little bit one of many things from 1984 or Matrix, that by controlling every aspect of life and by defining a behavior of society you can take complete control over everyone.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 09 mars 2013 - 09:03 .


#77
David7204

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Zaidra wrote...

On the case of EDI's "death", I would like to point out something....

Being the multi-billion credit company that cerberus is, with how paranoid they are, (preparing for worst case scenario when they were building the Normandy SR-2), would they not have put an EMP/other pulse defense on the AI core? Why wouldn't they think of that?

We have that technology now, and it's not that expensive. Why wouldn't cerberus of all companies use that technology a few hundred years in the future?

Her death was  unnecessary and used for sacrificial purposes, and it really bugs me....


Also, I completely agree with you. Five stars. +10,000 and a kitty. 


Can you explain to me how an EMP works and how EMP countermeasures work?

Because if you can't, I don't think you have much business saying that.

And for the love of God, do not link me an article or a video.

Modifié par David7204, 09 mars 2013 - 08:06 .


#78
zombieord

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Where were you 12 months ago Arcian? My biggest issue with the ending was always the themes presented (or rather the betrayal of Mass Effect's core themes).

Either Bioware got the wrong feedback or they ignored it apparently.

#79
BD Manchild

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Arcian wrote...
Yet the next cycle's victory is explained with them having used the Crucible to win, which makes Shepard's (and the player's) defiance completely moot.


That's never explicitly stated in the game itself, and Bioware can take their Twitter-canon and shove it.

Otherwise, this was a great, well thought out analysis that pretty much sums up everything that's wrong with the endings from a narrative and thematic standpoint. It just shows me that Bioware put absolutely no thought into the ending, that they had no real idea what to do with the Reapers so went for a massive rip-off of Deus Ex that doesn't fit in the narrative at all.

#80
SpamBot2000

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WarGriffin wrote...

Granted synthesis has nothing to do with Evolution, It's all about connect the galalxy into a unified whole race, cause... IDK Maybe they didn't think there was gonna be a 4.


Not only that, they wrote synthesis like that for the specific reason of preventing a 4 from ever being made. 

#81
nos_astra

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AlanC9 wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Arcian wrote...
I've only heard that they sabotaged the Keeper signal, preventing Sovereign from opening the Citadel Relay remotely.


Sure, but you heard that from Vigil, who had no way of knowing what actually happened on the Citadel. All Vigil knew is that the Reapers hadn't invaded yet, and Saren was trying to get to the Citadel to fix that.


Vigil also said that the scientist must have SUCCEEDED.....Shepard being on Ilos was proof the Reapers had not taken over the Citadel yet....and that their leaving the beacons on would reach someone.


Sure, but Vigil only knows that the signal should have been sent because Saren's come through. Otherwise the Reaper plan could have been proceeding perfectly on schedule; Vigil had no way of knowing when the signal should have been sent.


So Mass Effect switches ad libitum and without warning from reliable to unreliable narrator? And that's somehow good writing? So Vigil provides exposition that shouldn't be trusted but the Catalyst is to be taken at face value? What about ME2 that has Shepard rely solely on TIM's claim that the collectors are a threat and are totally connected to the Reapers because PATTERNS!

To be honest I don't think Mass Effect works with an unreliable narrator. Too often you have to rely on the exposition provided by a single character to make your decisions and the game reinforces that you can trust exposition to reflect what is true in the world unless it's made obvious that someone is biased or deluded or that his position can be challenged.

The mere fact that ME3 contradicts what Vigil said doesn't change his role as a genuine exposition dump. There should have been some sort of acknowledgement if they wanted it retconned. 

Modifié par klarabella, 09 mars 2013 - 09:00 .


#82
Guest_Arcian_*

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zombieord wrote...

Where were you 12 months ago Arcian?

Weeping in a corner with only my Garrus, Javik, Wrex, Legion and Mordin plushies to keep me company.

#83
Applepie_Svk

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corporal doody wrote...
Vigil also said that the scientist must have SUCCEEDED.....Shepard being on Ilos was proof the Reapers had not taken over the Citadel yet....and that their leaving the beacons on would reach someone.


It was logical conclusion after what someone was wandering around the Ilos with Reaper and whole army of synthetic buddies... not to mentioned that Catalyst recognized indoctrinated Saren as a victim of indoctrination.


klarabella wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Sure, but Vigil only knows that the signal should have been sent because Saren's come through. Otherwise the Reaper plan could have been proceeding perfectly on schedule; Vigil had no way of knowing when the signal should [/i]have been sent.[/b]

So Mass Effect switches ad libitum and without warning from reliable to unreliable narrator? And that's somehow good writing? So Vigil provides exposition that shouldn't be trusted but the Catalyst is to be taken at face value? What about ME2 that has Shepard rely solely on TIM's claim that the collectors are a threat and are totally connected to the Reapers because PATTERNS!
To be honest I don't think Mass Effect works with an unreliable narrator. Too often you have to rely on the exposition provided by a single character to make your decisions and the game reinforces that you can trust exposition to reflect what is true in the world unless it's made obvious that someone is biased or deluded or that his position can be challenged.

The mere fact that ME3 contradicts what Vigil said doesn't change his role as a genuine exposition dump. There should have been some sort of acknowledgement if they wanted it retconned. 


Vigil as much as Vendetta are much more trustworthy sources of informations then Catalyst or Leviathans, because both  are VIs, I am not saying that they both might be right about the informations given to them, but they cannot lie unlike their opponents.

Vendetta: We believed that Crucible is creation of countless cycles, those who tried to built it never finished it in time or they fall to indoctrination.

Leviathan: We´ve watched its construction - its outcome is unkown, but those who tried to built it never finished it in time or they fall to indoctrination.

Catalyst: We´ve found the Crucible few cycles ago... The creators ? You wouldn´t know them and there is not enough time to explain ... We thought that pattern was eradicated.

/just last cycle indoctrinated group managed to sabotage the Crucible.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 09 mars 2013 - 03:35 .


#84
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Another reason I think makes the sacrifice in destroy feel so contrived and tacked on is the fact that we never even see it. Not only are the Geth and EDI going to be destroyed because the writers said they had to, they won't even show us their sacrifice. Instead they just die off-screen. Imagine if in control or synthesis, Shepard's death consisted of him walking off-screen and then the game just cut to the crucible firing. If that happened I would imagine alot of players crying out over how contrived his death was aswell.

I know the EC added a smiling EDI flashback when Hackett talks about the dead, but we needed more than just that.

#85
Reikilea

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Well I can only pick destroy. Synthesis is forced crap to get Joker laid. Control is way to risky. And I wanted to get rid of the reapers.

Destroy is a great option. I fully support this option. And to the "genocide" and edi. I always took it as - you are destroying reapers so you destroy everything reaper. That means geth enhanced by reaper code and Edi made from reaper parts. No synthetic organic crap. Just getting rid of the reapers.

#86
Guest_Arcian_*

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Reikilea wrote...

Well I can only pick destroy. Synthesis is forced crap to get Joker laid. Control is way to risky. And I wanted to get rid of the reapers.

Destroy is a great option. I fully support this option. And to the "genocide" and edi. I always took it as - you are destroying reapers so you destroy everything reaper. That means geth enhanced by reaper code and Edi made from reaper parts. No synthetic organic crap. Just getting rid of the reapers.

The issue is that there's no logical reason for the geth and EDI to die. Neither use Reaper code for their basic "life functions". The geth use it to increase their intelligence and EDI uses it for her anti-Reaper cyberwarfare suites.

That's the problem with Destroy. If the writing made sense, EDI and the geth wouldn't die. And if they didn't, there would be no incentive to pick Control or Synthesis.

#87
Xilizhra

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Zaidra wrote...

Arcian wrote...

A great many people are still dissatisfied with the endings. A great many other people are content, at least after the EC. No matter if you hate or like the endings, there's no real argument against some issues they have.

Knowing myself and the less than ideal tone I have often used against the developers after the release of ME3, I would like, for once, to explain to BioWare what I think is wrong with the endings in a way that hopefully will not be found insulting to the developers who took their time to craft this game.

DESTROY
What happens: Shepard uses the Crucible to destroy the Reapers at the cost of all synthetics.
The issue: My take on this is that BioWare was trying to avoid the laser-precision IWIN-gun syndrome of other superweapons by giving the Crucible a pretty juicy and painful side effect. Pre-EC, we lost all technology in the entire galaxy - even the cybernetics in Shepard's body. They actually achieved what they were going for by allowing the Crucible to achieve victory at a high cost. The problem is that the cost is too great and the ending is way too bitter to be emotionally rewarding.

The EC changed this to make Destroy more emotionally rewarding and at the same time keeping the sacrifice part of the deal. However, now the Crucible has become a laser-precision IWIN-gun against synthetics. While intelligent, synthetics are made of wiring, electronics and other components found in regular, every-day technology. Some people head-canon this by saying the Crucible only targets Reaper Code, which makes a little sense considering the Reaper Code used in EDI's anti-Reaper cyberwarfare functions and the code used to upgrade the geth to true intelligence.

The problem here is that the Reapers are the only synthetics who needs Reaper Code to stay operational. EDI's primary/basic functions does not use Reaper Code, only her anti-Reaper functions do. Getting hit with the Destroy beam would pretty much only amount to her losing her ability to stand toe-to-toe with Reapers in cyberwarfare (which is made moot point by the Destroy beam, anyway).

As for the geth, they do not rely on Reaper Code to function either. Getting hit with the Destroy beam would render them as dumb as they were before being upgraded, but it wouldn't destroy them.

The issue, then, is that EDI, the geth and synthetics are killed not because it makes sense, but because the plot requires them to die.


On the case of EDI's "death", I would like to point out something....

Being the multi-billion credit company that cerberus is, with how paranoid they are, (preparing for worst case scenario when they were building the Normandy SR-2), would they not have put an EMP/other pulse defense on the AI core? Why wouldn't they think of that?

We have that technology now, and it's not that expensive. Why wouldn't cerberus of all companies use that technology a few hundred years in the future?

Her death was  unnecessary and used for sacrificial purposes, and it really bugs me....


Also, I completely agree with you. Five stars. +10,000 and a kitty. 

So you think that this magical surge protection technology is something that the Reapers would not already possess, in a version a thousand times stronger? That could be pierced by the Destroy beam anyway?

That's the problem with Destroy. If the writing made sense, EDI and the
geth wouldn't die. And if they didn't, there would be no incentive to
pick Control or Synthesis.

I strongly disagree. If they were going to make Destroy better, they should have made Control and Synthesis better. Make it absolutely clear that none of the Reapers have free will, possibly show one trying to break free from its own constraints because it's tired of the fighting. Explain Synthesis better.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 mars 2013 - 04:32 .


#88
ScriptBabe

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Very nice post. Thank you.

For what it's worth -- I am a professional screenwriter and novelist, and I think the problem was a very simple one. It's structural and it goes all the way back to the first game. For an ending to work all the pieces have to be laid in at the beginning. The problem, the villain(s) and the solution. A reader/viewer/player should be able to look back at the end and go, "Wow, I totally see how they did that. All the clues were there."

The designers laid in the problem quickly and elegantly -- Reapers. We had a personified villain in the first game. Things got a bit wobbly in the second, and the third instead of being faced with Harbinger -- the ultimate Reaper we had TIM as a stand in villain. Then at the very end we are presented with a new antagonist in the form of the Catalyst. It was whiplash, and because it came out of nowhere people were frustrated and disoriented. The Crucible was also never hinted at in the earlier games which made it feel like Deus ex machina. The theme of Mass Effect was unity through diversity. That should have been the ultimate solution. The writers even suggested as much in some of Javik's dialog. The Protheans failed because they were conquerors. There was no grand alliance.

I know it's hard in a game or a TV series to plot the arc. You never know if the game or the show is going to continue, but you have to plot to the conclusion, or have a trap door that enables you to give a satisfying climax even if they pull the plug on your project. Bottom line, you have to know the end before you start. When I plot a movie or a book I begin with the climax and work backward. If I can't find that climax I know this is a story that isn't going to work.

Overall though there is much to praise in this franchise. They failed to stick the landing, but they gave us a great ride on the way.

#89
ZLurps

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Arcian wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

Well I can only pick destroy. Synthesis is forced crap to get Joker laid. Control is way to risky. And I wanted to get rid of the reapers.

Destroy is a great option. I fully support this option. And to the "genocide" and edi. I always took it as - you are destroying reapers so you destroy everything reaper. That means geth enhanced by reaper code and Edi made from reaper parts. No synthetic organic crap. Just getting rid of the reapers.

The issue is that there's no logical reason for the geth and EDI to die. Neither use Reaper code for their basic "life functions". The geth use it to increase their intelligence and EDI uses it for her anti-Reaper cyberwarfare suites.

That's the problem with Destroy. If the writing made sense, EDI and the geth wouldn't die. And if they didn't, there would be no incentive to pick Control or Synthesis.

Or alternatively, every platform that can run "synthetic life" would be destroyed, meaning everything from Ships to Quarian suits.

The problem with Destroy from science point of view is that it doesn't make any more sense than Synthesis.

#90
ZLurps

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ScriptBabe wrote...

Very nice post. Thank you.

For what it's worth -- I am a professional screenwriter and novelist, and I think the problem was a very simple one. It's structural and it goes all the way back to the first game. For an ending to work all the pieces have to be laid in at the beginning. The problem, the villain(s) and the solution. A reader/viewer/player should be able to look back at the end and go, "Wow, I totally see how they did that. All the clues were there."

The designers laid in the problem quickly and elegantly -- Reapers. We had a personified villain in the first game. Things got a bit wobbly in the second, and the third instead of being faced with Harbinger -- the ultimate Reaper we had TIM as a stand in villain. Then at the very end we are presented with a new antagonist in the form of the Catalyst. It was whiplash, and because it came out of nowhere people were frustrated and disoriented. The Crucible was also never hinted at in the earlier games which made it feel like Deus ex machina. The theme of Mass Effect was unity through diversity. That should have been the ultimate solution. The writers even suggested as much in some of Javik's dialog. The Protheans failed because they were conquerors. There was no grand alliance.

I know it's hard in a game or a TV series to plot the arc. You never know if the game or the show is going to continue, but you have to plot to the conclusion, or have a trap door that enables you to give a satisfying climax even if they pull the plug on your project. Bottom line, you have to know the end before you start. When I plot a movie or a book I begin with the climax and work backward. If I can't find that climax I know this is a story that isn't going to work.

Overall though there is much to praise in this franchise. They failed to stick the landing, but they gave us a great ride on the way.


I have read quite a bit behind the scenes stuff and it's interesting how writers had ideas how to advance the Reaper plot, but those ideas never ended in game. I guess person who decided to rejected them might have felt that leaving as much as possible open, would leave more room to manoeuvre in ME3 production. Well...

#91
RainbowDazed

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The more time passes, the more I like the ending. Whatever people think about the execution of the ending, what other solutions could there be for this conflict than the ones presented at the end?

Either

- the conflict ends in the destruction of either the sentient organics in this cycle or reapers, (Destroy / refuse) or
- the organics somehow enslave the reapers or (control)
- some sort of peaceful resolution is found. (synthesis)

None of the choices are perfect or non-problematic and that's what I think is the beauty of them.

My badass renegade Shepard chose synthesis, because she thought it to be the best course of action. She had no problem on imposing her will on the entire galaxy (changing everyone into something different). My wimpy paragon-Shep went with control, because he didn't want to lose anyone and felt quishy about forcing synthesis on everyone. He did not enjoy enslaving the reapers either but thought it to be the best solution out of many bad options.

None of my Shepard's chose destroy. That choice ends in a genocide of synthetic life and solves nothing. At some point someone would create synthetic life and especially without the highly evolved reaper tech it would most likely result in the end of organic life as we know it.

Modifié par RainbowDazed, 09 mars 2013 - 05:11 .


#92
Reikilea

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ZLurps wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

Well I can only pick destroy. Synthesis is forced crap to get Joker laid. Control is way to risky. And I wanted to get rid of the reapers.

Destroy is a great option. I fully support this option. And to the "genocide" and edi. I always took it as - you are destroying reapers so you destroy everything reaper. That means geth enhanced by reaper code and Edi made from reaper parts. No synthetic organic crap. Just getting rid of the reapers.

The issue is that there's no logical reason for the geth and EDI to die. Neither use Reaper code for their basic "life functions". The geth use it to increase their intelligence and EDI uses it for her anti-Reaper cyberwarfare suites.

That's the problem with Destroy. If the writing made sense, EDI and the geth wouldn't die. And if they didn't, there would be no incentive to pick Control or Synthesis.

Or alternatively, every platform that can run "synthetic life" would be destroyed, meaning everything from Ships to Quarian suits.

The problem with Destroy from science point of view is that it doesn't make any more sense than Synthesis.


Well It makes sense if you only target technology created or enhanced by reapers. That´s why it makes sense if relays are gone too in Destroy and Normandy equipped with reapers tech gets it too. Geth use the code now, they I know they didnt need it before, but the code changed them (the way they operate a live) and they are using it Now - the moment Shepard pushes the red button. Edi too. I´m not really broken hearted over Edi, I loathed that character. (not what edi represents, only the way it was done. ) And of course I´ll miss geth. But this is just war. Things like this happen.

It may be the fact that reaper tech couldnt be erased form Edi´s or Geth current state. So the destroy option could have targeted the whole being.

If I think about it like this it makes more sense to me. I thought if catalyst has power to magically change whole life into organics/synthetics synthesis, targetting reaper technology and destroying it makes sense too.  Or that´s how it should be.

#93
ScriptBabe

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ZLurps wrote...

ScriptBabe wrote...

Very nice post. Thank you.

For what it's worth -- I am a professional screenwriter and novelist, and I think the problem was a very simple one. It's structural and it goes all the way back to the first game. For an ending to work all the pieces have to be laid in at the beginning. The problem, the villain(s) and the solution. A reader/viewer/player should be able to look back at the end and go, "Wow, I totally see how they did that. All the clues were there."

The designers laid in the problem quickly and elegantly -- Reapers. We had a personified villain in the first game. Things got a bit wobbly in the second, and the third instead of being faced with Harbinger -- the ultimate Reaper we had TIM as a stand in villain. Then at the very end we are presented with a new antagonist in the form of the Catalyst. It was whiplash, and because it came out of nowhere people were frustrated and disoriented. The Crucible was also never hinted at in the earlier games which made it feel like Deus ex machina. The theme of Mass Effect was unity through diversity. That should have been the ultimate solution. The writers even suggested as much in some of Javik's dialog. The Protheans failed because they were conquerors. There was no grand alliance.

I know it's hard in a game or a TV series to plot the arc. You never know if the game or the show is going to continue, but you have to plot to the conclusion, or have a trap door that enables you to give a satisfying climax even if they pull the plug on your project. Bottom line, you have to know the end before you start. When I plot a movie or a book I begin with the climax and work backward. If I can't find that climax I know this is a story that isn't going to work.

Overall though there is much to praise in this franchise. They failed to stick the landing, but they gave us a great ride on the way.


I have read quite a bit behind the scenes stuff and it's interesting how writers had ideas how to advance the Reaper plot, but those ideas never ended in game. I guess person who decided to rejected them might have felt that leaving as much as possible open, would leave more room to manoeuvre in ME3 production. Well...


That's unfortunate.  In an open sandbox game like Skyrim you can get away with that.  You just can't in a narrative driven story like Dragon Age: Origins or Mass Effect.  Everything has to lead toward that ultimate climax.  I'm struggling to address notes on a script right now where the execs want more scenes with this one particular character.  That's great, but these scenes have to advance the plot or they're just filler.  In Mass Effect it seemed like all my efforts to build an alliance to face the Reapers was ultmately pointless ie filler.  And I still thing an unalloyed happy ending could and should have been offered.  I'm a big proponent of the happy ending.  I think they get a bad rap from critics.  In Dragon Age you really could craft an ending that was appropriate to your character.  Not so much in ME. 

#94
Mastone

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RainbowDazed wrote...

The more time passes, the more I like the ending. Whatever people think about the execution of the ending, what other solutions could there be for this conflict than the ones presented at the end?


This is like a woman who get's beat up by her husband and try to justify it by looking at her own faults which surely must trigger her husbands violent outbursts....wait are you indoctrinated by Bioware...can they do that?
On a more serious note:
There were a lot and I emphasize A LOT of better ways to end this, hell MEHEM endings are better just by leaving out this dumb endgame of choosing between 3 magic doors presented by Casper the friendly ghost kid ( so you can't even shoot the little bastard)

To respond to the original OP:
-1- I like your profile pic... very nice twist at the end
-2- I have a feeling there where some second class writers on the ME team, if I look at  ME1 the story was solid, you got a true connection with teammates, had to make hard choices ( Virmire) had a great antagonist ( saren) and a great plot(reveal).
It was a down to earth nitty gritty warstory, in ME2 they already started wrong by  not making it about the reapers anymore or the impending doom they represent but a lightweight soap opera where you had to win allegiance of crewmates( stupidly implemented..really in war you just rely on the guy next to you and you bond over time not because of listening to someones story and fetch their dads, but because your in it together), ME2 was saved only because in the end you really could make a couple of meaningful choices ( which never got implemented very well in ME3), ME3 was a polished turd, day 1 DLC, very much on rails nothing you ever did had any impact and in the end you get a last minute crash course in space magic, which leaves me wondering if there were any writers of significance on the ME3 team, I have a fee;ing it was written my a mentally unstable 13 year old  and I am not talking about a mozart type of wizzkid more like a mentally impaired version).


I

#95
Galifreya

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This is really, really excellent. I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to thank you for writing all of this out so perfectly. This is exactly everything that bugs me about the endings.

#96
RainbowDazed

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Mastone wrote...

RainbowDazed wrote...

The more time passes, the more I like the ending. Whatever people think about the execution of the ending, what other solutions could there be for this conflict than the ones presented at the end?


This is like a woman who get's beat up by her husband and try to justify it by looking at her own faults which surely must trigger her husbands violent outbursts....wait are you indoctrinated by Bioware...can they do that?
On a more serious note:
There were a lot and I emphasize A LOT of better ways to end this, hell MEHEM endings are better just by leaving out this dumb endgame of choosing between 3 magic doors presented by Casper the friendly ghost kid ( so you can't even shoot the little bastard)


You truly excel at online discussion.^_^

To use your analogy I'd say that I'm the kind of woman who is willing to give her husband a new chance if he admits what he has done, owns up to it and seeks professional help. Bioware hasn't come through 100%, but they've done a lot to make up for the damage done.

I have no problem admitting that it took me a long time to truly get the beauty of the ending. I also get that Bioware ****ed: the narrative structure of the trilogy didn't carry through and the themes presented at the end should've been more strongly present during the trilogy. But, that all is water under the bridge. With the EC and with all the DLC the story now makes more sense and carries itself better.

As for the MEHEM: I have watched it and appreciate the effort put into it. But I still prefer the actual endings.

#97
Lisa_H

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Thanks OP that was very well written

#98
CroGamer002

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Arcian wrote...

zombieord wrote...

Where were you 12 months ago Arcian?

Weeping in a corner with only my Garrus, Javik, Wrex, Legion and Mordin plushies to keep me company.


Give me those now!

#99
MB957

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I agree with everything OP said.

nice break down of the way good writers can go bad!

#100
Auld Wulf

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I think writers should be allowed to have their darlings, because often it makes for a more interesting story. I mean, we can all easily explain away any of the issues brought up by the OP. I have many times in the past, and I'd do it again if I thought anyone would actually listen. The fact of the matter is is that we have too many people who have an overpowering fetish for meticulous works. But that's not what good writing is about. Some of the best works have featured 'darlings,' and the authors have (correctly) had very screw you attitudes in regards to critical reception.

It's like how Pratchett doesn't use chapters. One critic picked him up on this because apparently the only way to properly write a novel is to use chapters, and a lack of them is one of Pratchett's darlings. So, on the next book, Pratchett uses this quote on the back of his book just to make fun of the guy. This is because everyone who actually reads knows that the imperfections make the work, not the perfection. It's what the author puts of themselves into their story - their passions, their dreams, their ideals. Those are what make for a great story.

Oh, sure. You could feed the OP's fetish and pick through a story to make it clinically meticulous and perfect, but then it would be an effing boring bloody story. That would be like telling Doctor Who's Moffat that he's not allowed to use the Silence or mysteries any more, that he has to wrap everything up quickly, that nothing can be left to speculation. I mean, the Silence and the Weeping Angels are Moffat's darlings, but do they ruin Doctor Who? Do they really? I always felt that the show was better since he took the helm, and his episodes were the best of new Who anyway.

Sometimes it's just painfully apparent to me who does and doesn't read. The OP doesn't read a lot, I think. At least not good stories. Because if you read good tales, told by the best talespinners, then you gain a tolerance for eccentricity - because you understand what a book is. A book is a walk through another person's head. It's seeing things from a different perspective, experiencing worlds that could only exist there, in the mind of the writer. And that's very important. The writer shouldn't have to spell everything out, either.

Quoth Cortez: Mystery is important.

To be honest, I think if any of you had complainers had actually played The Longest Journey (and none of you have) then you'd have complained about it. You'd have complained about the ending, the ambiguity, the mystery, the bizarre puzzles, and you'd have spent so much time complaining that you'd fail to see how beautiful of an experience it is. I just can't understand what it's like to be so shallow, petty, hateful, and bitter that you can't lose yourself in the work of another. That you must critically analyse it rather than living it.

That's really kind of sad. And I feel sorry for you. If you can't just walk through their works, taking in what they've shared, just transporting yourself to their world for a while. Escapism is borne of accepting that a writer's world is never perfect, is frequently strange, and yes, there are darlings present. But that's what the story is about. The story is something that is distinctly the writer's, something that's unique to them, their passion and dreams... and you want to take that away just to make for a clinically perfect story?

This is what I say when I feel that large swathes of BSN have no imagination, that they wouldn't be able to write worth ****. And no, I'm not talking documentaries, here, or 'stories' that do an almost exact historical retelling of something with minor differences. But the kind of imagination it takes to create worlds. The imagination that BioWare has, but you don't.