9 réponses à ce sujet

[Eain]

Without going into spoilers, I will say the following thing about the ending of Dragon Age:

It was completely, utterly unchallenging.

Why did Bioware feel that they had to offer the player, who just spent his entire game collecting the best possible gearing, the best possible spec and the best possible stats, enemies that die in a single hit?

I've heard comments from people that this made them feel epic and powerful. I think it did the exact opposite. It didn't matter if I went into the stages before the final bossfight in my full Warden Commander's armor or Grey Iron chain from the early game. Whether I was wearing the most powerful 2h mace in the game, or a tier 1 sword bought from a vendor.

I am reminded of the Star Forge in KotOR. Unless you had a good spec and good gear, these enemies would mess you up bad. The countless waves of Dark Jedi sent upon you combined with regular troopers and stationary turrets were a true battle of attrition and fighting through them was like swimming upstream. The first time I get to the Star Forge I had my behind handed to me so thoroughly that I actually started a new playthrough where I had a better spec with better gear and most of all more levels (I was level 17 the first time I got to the Star Forge). Suddenly it was doable, but it wasn't easy.

This felt epic. To overcome this multitude of foes only to then finally stand before Malak, a fight that unlike DA's final boss, took more than one attempt to defeat. It felt like the entire game had lead up to this point and that my true skill as a Jedi was finally put to the test. What was DA's final boss, if not just another big health bar that you had to reduce to 0?

I loved the entire game pretty much up to the final confrontation. It's beyond me why Bioware would abandon the challenge of the Star Forge (or the Citadel Tower in Mass Effect) in favour of something as... unchallenging as this. Not just the boss, but all the fights leading up to it from the moment the final part of the game begins. I just don't get it.

Modifié par Eain, 13 janvier 2010 - 01:48 .

[Ryngard]

Try killing the Archdemon on Nightmare difficulty.

[marbatico]

i for one loved the fact that we can just hack and slash our way through a darkspawn horde. really gives you a feeling that your a weapon master.

Modifié par marbatico, 13 janvier 2010 - 02:01 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

Ryngard wrote...

Try killing the Archdemon on Nightmare difficulty.

...Still a joke, even on Nightmare...

Im also seeing it in the way of the OP. Starforge was really tough, even on Normal; ut still managable.
The first time i used useable items in this game was there *g


@OP: You should change the Topic-name to sth. like:

"I want a Star Forge-ending for Dragon Age!" 

[Lord Phoebus]

Saren was a much easier fight (Biotics!), as was Li (Storm Dragon) and Malak (Master Speed and other buffs). I'll agree that post Landsmeet, the ending was a let down. The Archdemon wasn't that much of a pushover, but there were tougher fights in the game (I beat him solo on nightmare without summoning any allies or using the Ballistae). Part of the problem was they gave you too much help in the final battle, and they should have used full strength darkspawn instead of the 1 shot grunts. The ending just felt like it was rushed, like they ran out of time or something, but I can't remember the last time I played an RPG that had a satisfying ending.

[Rolenka]

The hordes upon hordes of weakened darkspawn were, as you said, to make the player feel powerful.

The battle with the archdemon was challenging, but not extremely challenging, because it was a mandatory fight. Optional fights earlier in the game were harder, true, but that's because they were optional.

They didn't want players to reach the end and be unable to finish.

Anyway, sounds like you want the Nightmare Plus mod.

[NicklasBertelsen]

marbatico wrote...

i for one loved the fact that we can just hack and slash our way through a darkspawn horde. really gives you a feeling that your a weapon master.

The problem is that this felt artificial. You were not a weaponmaster on account of actually being strong, you were one on account of enemies suddenly being ridiculously weak.

[Eain]

Rolenka wrote...

The hordes upon hordes of weakened darkspawn were, as you said, to make the player feel powerful.

The battle with the archdemon was challenging, but not extremely challenging, because it was a mandatory fight. Optional fights earlier in the game were harder, true, but that's because they were optional.

Why should optional fights be hard and mandatory fights be easy? What's wrong with giving players a challenge that they -have- to beat to be able to progress? I just hate this whole idea that games constantly have to cater to the unskilled and untalented because otherwise they won't have fun.

]They didn't want players to reach the end and be unable to finish.

Anyway, sounds like you want the Nightmare Plus mod.

I don't really, that's just it. I have enough challenge with normal difficult at points. I'm gonna try hardcore difficulty soon but the thing is, this game is quite challenging, especially in the early game, so I don't get why it finishes with such an easymode final fight (not just the boss, but all the darkspawn that precede it).

The problem is that this felt artificial. You were not a
weaponmaster on account of actually being strong, you were one on
account of enemies suddenly being ridiculously weak.

Exactly. A normal enemy towards the end of the game has what... 200 to 300 hitpoints? Then suddenly you get into the final siege leading up to the final boss and suddenly darkspawn have 20 hitpoints and die as soon as you breathe on them. As I said, you might aswell have been wearing crappy armor, or no armor at all. Or no weapons. I haven't tried it but I bet you can oneshot those darkspawn with your fists. How is that awesome? I really don't see it.

Modifié par Eain, 13 janvier 2010 - 02:40 .

[amrose2]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Saren was a much easier fight (Biotics!), as was Li (Storm Dragon) and Malak (Master Speed and other buffs). I'll agree that post Landsmeet, the ending was a let down. The Archdemon wasn't that much of a pushover, but there were tougher fights in the game (I beat him solo on nightmare without summoning any allies or using the Ballistae). Part of the problem was they gave you too much help in the final battle, and they should have used full strength darkspawn instead of the 1 shot grunts. The ending just felt like it was rushed, like they ran out of time or something, but I can't remember the last time I played an RPG that had a satisfying ending.

This is definately how I feel too. Although I was SOMEWHAT satisfied with the endings for Mass Effect and KoTOR, I had to play Dragon Age a whole second time to get a good conclusive ending because I was unaware of how lame and ending you get if you decide to make the killing blow on the Archdemon.

The whole Denerim battles and pretty much everything after the Landsmeet felt incredibly rushed. I can see why some of the reviewers were complaining about linearity after getting there mysel.f

[Sarevok Anchev]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Saren was a much easier fight (Biotics!), as was Li (Storm Dragon) and Malak (Master Speed and other buffs). I'll agree that post Landsmeet, the ending was a let down. The Archdemon wasn't that much of a pushover, but there were tougher fights in the game (I beat him solo on nightmare without summoning any allies or using the Ballistae). Part of the problem was they gave you too much help in the final battle, and they should have used full strength darkspawn instead of the 1 shot grunts. The ending just felt like it was rushed, like they ran out of time or something, but I can't remember the last time I played an RPG that had a satisfying ending.

Its not about the Final-Boss, its about the Final-Stage in general.
Malak was only annoying because you dunno realize maybe, that you need to destroy the "clones".
The part TILL Malak was hard.

Mass Effect similar, at least when you played on the higher difficulties.


In DragonAge i had problems with the battle against the part, where you need to go one of 2 stairways, which are trapped, to another stairway, where you are awaited by Masses of Shrieks, Hurlocks, 2 Emissarys, some Alpha Gnarlocks and a Alpha Troll. +the Marketplace fight against half a dozen of Trolls.
BUT thats only "hard", because i played my first Character(>bad stat distribution/leveling) on Nightmare AND
had the annoying lag, because of my weak CPU!