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Geth Spitfire only has 600 RPM(not 800) when ramped up, DPS is 25% less than expected


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#376
StoxRegalia

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Eric Fagnan wrote...

I've looked at the data and it appears that the value we use to determine the length of the bar for rate of fire on the weapon screen is set to 800, but the Spitfire's in-game rate of fire is set to 650.

This is simply an error with the visual bar in the menu, and it should have no impact on the balance of the weapon. In fact, we don't plug in stats into a magic formula to deteremine balance anyway. All of our balance testing is done in a real level against real enemies, so in the end the value of the stats doesn't really matter; the only thing that matters is how the weapon performs in a real game.


It performs very poorly unless you play bronze

#377
jaqome

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InTheZone wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

I've looked at the data and it appears that the value we use to determine the length of the bar for rate of fire on the weapon screen is set to 800, but the Spitfire's in-game rate of fire is set to 650.

This is simply an error with the visual bar in the menu, and it should have no impact on the balance of the weapon. In fact, we don't plug in stats into a magic formula to deteremine balance anyway. All of our balance testing is done in a real level against real enemies, so in the end the value of the stats doesn't really matter; the only thing that matters is how the weapon performs in a real game.


TY. All this overanalysis into numbers is just silly. At the end of the day, just get a better weapon. 

I believe you're missing the point of this thread.  We wanted a better weapon, not an overweight peashooter that only shines on a few classes with ROF or damage bonuses that the typhoon outpaces in every way.  Typhoon can take the EM because it has innate piercing, so clip size is about the same. The weight is too heavy a penalty for the extra ammo.

#378
Lathlaer

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Eric Fagnan wrote...

I've looked at the data and it appears that the value we use to determine the length of the bar for rate of fire on the weapon screen is set to 800, but the Spitfire's in-game rate of fire is set to 650.

This is simply an error with the visual bar in the menu, and it should have no impact on the balance of the weapon. In fact, we don't plug in stats into a magic formula to deteremine balance anyway. All of our balance testing is done in a real level against real enemies, so in the end the value of the stats doesn't really matter; the only thing that matters is how the weapon performs in a real game.


With all due respect, Eric, but the gun does not perform well in real game. I just equipped it to test against cerberus gold and it was a nightmare. Damage per bullet is ok right now but killing things is just too slow. Please consider boosting the RoF to 800 to make the DPS more comparable to the Typhoon, seeing as this AR doesn't have 1.5 ramp up damage multipier.

#379
SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING

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even at 600RPM

the buff today blow chunks...it need more buffs

but since we are at the end of the game i just dont know anymore

#380
billy the squid

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Eric Fagnan wrote...

I've looked at the data and it appears that the value we use to determine the length of the bar for rate of fire on the weapon screen is set to 800, but the Spitfire's in-game rate of fire is set to 650.

This is simply an error with the visual bar in the menu, and it should have no impact on the balance of the weapon. In fact, we don't plug in stats into a magic formula to deteremine balance anyway. All of our balance testing is done in a real level against real enemies, so in the end the value of the stats doesn't really matter; the only thing that matters is how the weapon performs in a real game.


yep and it feels like it would be far more effective at 800rpm. What are you testing it on? Gold, platinum, on a juggernaut, destroyer, geth trooper? What consumables are you using? What mods? You're opening a can of worms when you go with gut feeling, I'm sure you've noticed the huge drawback is terms of mobility and exposing oneself to return fire. The issue is that the weapon still just manages to edge out the typhoon in terms of rof yet suffers vs armour to an extent the other assault rifles don't, either through high base damage or armour damage multipliers. As neither of theses are possible on the spitfire without breaking the gun, rof to compensate for the drawbacs are  necessary and to take full advantage of the vast magazine size to dispatch more agile enemies and deal with armoured target.

#381
TMB903

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It's still a terrible gun(especially considering it's weight and movement speed penalty).

#382
Counter_Mixture

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Tried it on again plat again and it was a miserable experience...

#383
kr3g

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1000 rof please

#384
billy the squid

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 I want to l to love this gun I really do, it's a plasma chaingun, what's not to love! But at the moment it's use is more a novelty thàn for a practical reason. The PPR, typhoon, harrier, saber and lancer all perform better. There's nothing to attract me to using this over any of these. Rof to 800rpm would do that despite the drawbacks.

#385
Savato93

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I'll probably be called a heretic for suggesting this, but... The Spitfire supposedly deals the most damage to shields/barriers. If you're getting so pissy about armor damage, WHY NOT JUST TAKE A F*CKING SECONDARY!?!

#386
DMX0002

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Savato93 wrote...

I'll probably be called a heretic for suggesting this, but... The Spitfire supposedly deals the most damage to shields/barriers. If you're getting so pissy about armor damage, WHY NOT JUST TAKE A F*CKING SECONDARY!?!

Acolyte...Oh wait a second...Image IPB

#387
Muhkida

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Savato93 wrote...

I'll probably be called a heretic for suggesting this, but... The Spitfire supposedly deals the most damage to shields/barriers. If you're getting so pissy about armor damage, WHY NOT JUST TAKE A F*CKING SECONDARY!?!


What's the point of utilizing the Spitfire for a "shield/barrier stripper" sidearm when there's something called an acolyte?

Also Shields/Barriers =/= Armor and/or Health

#388
Hejdun

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Savato93 wrote...

I'll probably be called a heretic for suggesting this, but... The Spitfire supposedly deals the most damage to shields/barriers. If you're getting so pissy about armor damage, WHY NOT JUST TAKE A F*CKING SECONDARY!?!


Why not just use the Typhoon, which does the same DPS against shields/barriers but also has the benefits of:
  • massively more damage vs armor
  • more damage vs health
  • weighs much less
  • doesn't slow you down
  • more accurate
  • more stable
The only reason to use the Spitfire is if you don't have a Typhoon, and you really really want to use a machine gun.

#389
billy the squid

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Savato93 wrote...

I'll probably be called a heretic for suggesting this, but... The Spitfire supposedly deals the most damage to shields/barriers. If you're getting so pissy about armor damage, WHY NOT JUST TAKE A F*CKING SECONDARY!?!


Then why the f*ck take the Spitfire in the first place. I can do better with a Harrier and a Hurricane, or Acolyte, Scorpion, PPR, Lancer, Typoohn, Saber, Carnifex, Talon etc. All weight less that a Spitfire and perform better vs armour and their performance vs shields isn't that much different. 

Which was my point, why take the Spitfire? Any of the above, do a better job on their own, certainly in combination and don't have the Spitfire's massive drwbacks in mobility, exposure and comparatively poor performance vs armour.

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 mars 2013 - 07:41 .


#390
Tallgeese_VII

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2 more weeks of garbage status confirmed today.
Sad.

#391
Trogdorx

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:((((((((

#392
Barge6000

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Can i request to have mine deleted?

#393
Gezar149

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NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Me thinks that the Spitfire was meant to troll us. Next they will Decrease the fire rate because it became to OP with its shield stripping capabilities and its 10% buff.

#394
Raptor2023

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Barge6000 wrote...

Can i request to have mine deleted?


From: Admiral Steven Hackett
To: Barge6000
Subject: Can i request to have mine deleted?

Barge6000:
Request denied.
Hackett


Modifié par Raptor2023, 12 mars 2013 - 08:15 .


#395
JaimasOfRaxis

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Eric Fagnan wrote...

I've looked at the data and it appears that the value we use to determine the length of the bar for rate of fire on the weapon screen is set to 800, but the Spitfire's in-game rate of fire is set to 650.

This is simply an error with the visual bar in the menu, and it should have no impact on the balance of the weapon. In fact, we don't plug in stats into a magic formula to deteremine balance anyway. All of our balance testing is done in a real level against real enemies, so in the end the value of the stats doesn't really matter; the only thing that matters is how the weapon performs in a real game.


Then I regret to inform you that if this is the case, then actual combat shows this weapon to be completely nonviable, and it won't ever be used by anyone who is aware of the gun's issues. It is out-damaged by over half the rare weapons, and the game has infinitely-better choices for both rapid-fire and shield stripping than the Spitfire itself is. Until the update, it was unequivocally the worst gun in the game. Now that the update's hit, it's only negligably better than it was.

Let's go over a brief list of why most of the available armory in the game is better than it is:

* It slows the user. This is a killer for almost every class that could field it, making it only useful for the Juggernaut. Other weapon-reliant classes using it find that it's simply a liability to take along on a mission.

* It's the heaviest gun in the game. Not even the Javelin weighs this much. This makes it utterly nonviable on any class whatsoever that has even remotely-common cooldowns. The Typhoon is nowhere near as stringent.

* Like the Typhoon and Particle Rifle, it requires the user remain firing to do its damage. Unlike the Typhoon and Particle Rifle, it fails utterly at doing this because its damage and spread are worse. Its sole purpose, for a weapon of this weight, is eating shields - but a player can use the Typhoon or Particle Rifle instead, and grossly outdamage it against pretty much everything. Perhaps most tellingly, the Revenant - a Rare, mind you - had substantially-better damage than the Spitfire until today's update - and now the Revenant's still a better choice against health and armor, and weighs less than half as much.

* It still has zero purpose. It overlaps heavily with the roles of the Adas, Reegar, and Acolyte - none of which, mind you, will slow you down, cripple your cooldowns, or require you to be standing with your ass hanging out for Scions to shoot at.

* In the current metagame, the Spitfire needs to be put on a class with no cooldown restrictions whatsoever, requires tons of consumables, and ideally, a class with a powerful weapon modifier just to be remotely viable.

In conclusion, the Spitfire still under-achieves dramatically, and will be continued to be looked-at as what it is: vendor trash.

#396
Big Jack Shepard

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Eric Fagnan wrote...

This is simply an error with the visual bar in the menu, and it should have no impact on the balance of the weapon. In fact, we don't plug in stats into a magic formula to deteremine balance anyway. All of our balance testing is done in a real level against real enemies, so in the end the value of the stats doesn't really matter; the only thing that matters is how the weapon performs in a real game.


WOW, that was kind of surreal...and amazing.

The best part is; I didn't  have to spend a dime to experience it.

Thank You

#397
mrcanada

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The weapon is still subpar at best Eric, sorry.

#398
MaxShine

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Needs another buff

#399
-Morbid-

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100RenegadePoints wrote...

Needs another buff


...and if they are going to ****foot around each time buffing it by small amounts, then I would say it will need another 2 buffs after the next buff.

#400
DMX0002

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100RenegadePoints wrote...

Needs another buff

I think major might sadly be a more appropriate responseImage IPB