495 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackDahlia424]

Annomander wrote...

Heh, yeah, I guess cheating by using an adrenaline module to counteract the speed decrease, and aiming for the head counts as cheating too?

That's BSN's problem. Not every gun will be outstanding on every kit... a misconception perpetrated commonly thanks to a certain Mr. C. Harrier.

I think you're overrating the need to reload on a Typhoon. With a reload cancel, it takes like a second to reload your gun and another .5 seconds to wind it up. Its shield and barrier damage is pretty much the same and absolutely blows the Spitfire out of the water in terms of armor DPS (which is king in Gold and Plat). So tell me, other than the multaplicative Geth bonus (which even with, the Typhoon is still better), why would I choose it?

And for comparison purposes, I'd like to see it side by side to the Typhoon using the same exact setup.

[RoundedPlanet88]

EvanKester wrote...

If the gun's good on the Geth Trooper and the Juggernaut, that's enough for me.

Preliminary tests with a low level spitfire using EB+AP and incendiary ammo were promising. Probably not as potent as Annomander's loadout, will have to try that out too. ... Probably not taking it to Plat until I get it to at least V.

'Course, people who hate using consumables will probably be missing out. Nevermind if a gun benefits significantly more from them than others would.

The real question is which is better if you are using explosive ammo.

[Grunt_Platform]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

The real question is which is better if you are using explosive ammo.

Oh yeah. Aren't we still waiting on a buff for that?

Might be out of the picture now, but at least Peddro found it -will- explode during sustained fire.

Modifié par EvanKester, 13 mars 2013 - 12:36 .

[kinsha22]

Hmmm I think I can see an improvement on this gun now. I'm actually able to stop husks and abominations from reaching me now. Unfortunately that's all I've been able to bring down with any sort of consistency. Will have to wait until I get this a bit higher before I can say its good or not, but I think another 10%-20% dmg buff wouldn't be uncalled for.

[MetalDeggial]

People are still putting this gun on the Geth Juggernaut? Lol.

Modifié par MetalDeggial, 13 mars 2013 - 02:25 .

[Lucky]

MetalDeggial wrote...

People are still putting this gun on the Geth Juggernaut? Lol.

Its not actually terrible on him. I found it decent with HVB+Incendiary IV  on him on platinum.

[Battlepope190]

MetalDeggial wrote...

People are still putting this gun on the Geth Juggernaut? Lol.

Well yeah. Big Geth gun goes on Big Geth trooper, DUH!

[billy the squid]

Annomander wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Got a video uploading.

Draw your own conclusions, but all I'm saying is that the spitfire is NOT a bad gun.

Used it on geth soldier, AP ammo IV, targetting VI III, extended magazine, extended barrel. It was making a mess of everything. Does less damage versus armour than the typhoon, but the spitfire can clear an entire spawn faster, without ever having to reload once... unlike the typhoon.

Reducing the movement speed penalty would make it possibly the best AR in game for weapons platform characters.

I got 200k credits on you being told that it doesn't count because you used consumables and a Geth =P

Still, while I'm not expecting that I'll like it I'm waiting till I unlock the damned thing before drawing a final conclusion on it.

Heh, yeah, I guess cheating by using an adrenaline module to counteract the speed decrease, and aiming for the head counts as cheating too?

That's BSN's problem. Not every gun will be outstanding on every kit... a misconception perpetrated commonly thanks to a certain Mr. C. Harrier.

Meh Harrier's overrated, it's a good gun, but it'd never clear a spawn. You'd be out of ammo, before you're half way through. 

I have to have another look at the Spitfire, at the moment I still don't think it's worth the trade off in terms of cooldowns, movement, and exposure to enemy fire for what it does. I'd be hesitant to give it a further damage buff, personally I'd prefer a RoF increase, to take greater advantage of the magazine size and capacity. It was always fine vs shields, but it hits a wall vs armour. It can deal with armour, but time is an issue.

I don't mind the trade offs as it is a niche weapon, but while using consumables is fine, I don't think it should be used as a bell weather to determine if the gun is good in comparison to it's competitors. If you're going to do that for the Spitfire then you do the same for the Typhoon PPR etc, and then determine if it's worth using the Spitfire in comparison to the other weapons.

Which is the main point. Does the Spitfire do anything better than it's competitors which justifies it's drawbacks.

Modifié par billy the squid, 13 mars 2013 - 02:41 .

[Trogdorx]

Consumables are powerups. Hubcaps. Sprinkles. They should not be integral to the weapon's effectiveness. Why would you, the average player, use a weapon that is only good if you're using consumable powerups, when you can use a different weapon that works well naked, and works even better with said consumables?
The only reason I can think of is that you really, really like the weapon's aesthetic.. But we already have another gun that does the same thing and is superior in every aspect.

And even if it was clearly very good when paired with a particular class...which it isn't...is that really what BW intended? A shiny new gun for everyone to unlock, that no one will use unless they like playing [x] class?
Bioware, what the heck is this thing's purpose, if not to be a high-dps death hose that mows down anything you point it at, bosses included?

[Lathlaer]

Anno, how's that video? I'm really curious how it performs on your Trooper. Tried it yestarday and it wasn't half bad but what annoyed me the most was the slowing down (even when hipfiring).

[UnknownMercenary]

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables are powerups. Hubcaps. Sprinkles. They should not be integral to the weapon's effectiveness. Why would you, the average player, use a weapon that is only good if you're using consumable powerups, when you can use a different weapon that works well naked, and works even better with said consumables?

What I take away from this, every time the argument is posted, is that the Harrier should be nerfed.

Into the f*cking ground.

[joker_jack]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables are powerups. Hubcaps. Sprinkles. They should not be integral to the weapon's effectiveness. Why would you, the average player, use a weapon that is only good if you're using consumable powerups, when you can use a different weapon that works well naked, and works even better with said consumables?

What I take away from this, every time the argument is posted, is that the Harrier should be nerfed.

Into the f*cking ground.

and pc players a year later are cheating pirating idiots, so nothing has changed.

[UnknownMercenary]

joker_jack wrote...

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables are powerups. Hubcaps. Sprinkles. They should not be integral to the weapon's effectiveness. Why would you, the average player, use a weapon that is only good if you're using consumable powerups, when you can use a different weapon that works well naked, and works even better with said consumables?

What I take away from this, every time the argument is posted, is that the Harrier should be nerfed.

Into the f*cking ground.

and pc players a year later are cheating pirating idiots, so nothing has changed.

Are you so upset at the truth that you have to bring console war bullsh*t into the argument?

[jediluck]

Pleeeease do something about this weapon! It is simply useless on anything other than the Geth Juggernaut. Give it a buff of some kind, ANY kind. Please?

[BridgeBurner]

Lathlaer wrote...

Anno, how's that video? I'm really curious how it performs on your Trooper. Tried it yestarday and it wasn't half bad but what annoyed me the most was the slowing down (even when hipfiring).

I'm at work right now for about 5 more minutes when my lift gets here, I'll post again soon with the link.

Without an AR III amp, using mag and barrel + AP IV and an AR amp V for gear, it takes down an atlas faster than the typhoon does when used on the same class. Chews through infantry with impunity and takes down bosses only marginally slower than the typhoon does using an equivalent set up.

The gun is a monster, and (similar to other ARs) benefits greatly from consumables, and benefits greatly from being used on the geth trooper who boosts it's base damage even further, meaning with AP ammo, EB + consumables its damage versus armour is only marginally less than the typhoon... 

The higher base damage scales better with additive weapon damage, meaning its armour damage is not that much less than the typhoon's. Will post some calculations soon, but might be worth comparing a weapons build geth trooper with typhoon versus a weapons build geth trooper with spitfire (I have both at X) on narida's. The damage is great...





Now all we need is for Fagnan and co. to wake up and remove the movement speed penalty; which at the moment is the ONLY thing holding this gun back. Typhoon does better damage versus armour, spitfire has more spare ammo and a larger clip... The spitfire becomes a drag with the movement speed penalty, an I would be extremely grateful if Fagnan realised that the gun's weight and it's lower armour damage is enough to balance it, without retaining the movement speed penalty...

At the moment, the movement speed reduction is the breaking point.... remove the movement speed penalty and this truly would be a gun worth using on anything that's not a geth soldier. As the typhoon has NO movement speed penalty, I only think it's balanced to give the spitfire the same courtesy.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

What I take away from this, every time the argument is posted, is that the Harrier should be nerfed.

Into the f*cking ground.

Will you please drop this canard already? It got old the first five million times people were making Nerf Harrier threads. It hasn't happened yet, and frankly isn't likely to ever happen, and the only reason people want it to happen is because it's the only rifle in its class that actually behaves like an actual rifle, resulting in it being the most common rifle. At level 1, it's better than most of the rifle family at level X, a testament not to the Harrier being OP, but to the other guns in the AR category being pretty lax in contrast.

Moreover, you missed the point.

The point the poster was making was very simple: There's a bunch of guns that one can rock without consumables to wipe their noses for them: The Argus, Saber, Valkyrie, and Striker, just to name a few from the same weapon family. These can work just dandy without consumables fixing their problems. They make consumables shine brighter, sure, but they don't expressly need them for Gold. That's a far cry from the pre-buff Spitfire, which is still basically undergunned if not used expressly by Geth characters.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 13 mars 2013 - 05:37 .

[I_pity_the_fool]

Annomander wrote...

Lathlaer wrote...

Anno, how's that video? I'm really curious how it performs on your Trooper. Tried it yestarday and it wasn't half bad but what annoyed me the most was the slowing down (even when hipfiring).

I'm at work right now for about 5 more minutes when my lift gets here, I'll post again soon with the link.

Without an AR III amp, using mag and barrel + AP IV and an AR amp V for gear, it takes down an atlas faster than the typhoon does when used on the same class. Chews through infantry with impunity and takes down bosses only marginally slower than the typhoon does using an equivalent set up.

The gun is a monster, and (similar to other ARs) benefits greatly from consumables, and benefits greatly from being used on the geth trooper who boosts it's base damage even further, meaning with AP ammo, EB + consumables its damage versus armour is only marginally less than the typhoon... 

The higher base damage scales better with additive weapon damage, meaning its armour damage is not that much less than the typhoon's. Will post some calculations soon, but might be worth comparing a weapons build geth trooper with typhoon versus a weapons build geth trooper with spitfire (I have both at X) on narida's. The damage is great...





Now all we need is for Fagnan and co. to wake up and remove the movement speed penalty; which at the moment is the ONLY thing holding this gun back. Typhoon does better damage versus armour, spitfire has more spare ammo and a larger clip... The spitfire becomes a drag with the movement speed penalty, an I would be extremely grateful if Fagnan realised that the gun's weight and it's lower armour damage is enough to balance it, without retaining the movement speed penalty...

At the moment, the movement speed reduction is the breaking point.... remove the movement speed penalty and this truly would be a gun worth using on anything that's not a geth soldier. As the typhoon has NO movement speed penalty, I only think it's balanced to give the spitfire the same courtesy.

I actually think that for the sake of variety, the spitfire should give a movement penalty. I'm not really sure I want all guns with a sort of 'samey' feel. Maybe a bigger buff for compensation.

[BridgeBurner]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Lathlaer wrote...

Anno, how's that video? I'm really curious how it performs on your Trooper. Tried it yestarday and it wasn't half bad but what annoyed me the most was the slowing down (even when hipfiring).

I'm at work right now for about 5 more minutes when my lift gets here, I'll post again soon with the link.

Without an AR III amp, using mag and barrel + AP IV and an AR amp V for gear, it takes down an atlas faster than the typhoon does when used on the same class. Chews through infantry with impunity and takes down bosses only marginally slower than the typhoon does using an equivalent set up.

The gun is a monster, and (similar to other ARs) benefits greatly from consumables, and benefits greatly from being used on the geth trooper who boosts it's base damage even further, meaning with AP ammo, EB + consumables its damage versus armour is only marginally less than the typhoon... 

The higher base damage scales better with additive weapon damage, meaning its armour damage is not that much less than the typhoon's. Will post some calculations soon, but might be worth comparing a weapons build geth trooper with typhoon versus a weapons build geth trooper with spitfire (I have both at X) on narida's. The damage is great...





Now all we need is for Fagnan and co. to wake up and remove the movement speed penalty; which at the moment is the ONLY thing holding this gun back. Typhoon does better damage versus armour, spitfire has more spare ammo and a larger clip... The spitfire becomes a drag with the movement speed penalty, an I would be extremely grateful if Fagnan realised that the gun's weight and it's lower armour damage is enough to balance it, without retaining the movement speed penalty...

At the moment, the movement speed reduction is the breaking point.... remove the movement speed penalty and this truly would be a gun worth using on anything that's not a geth soldier. As the typhoon has NO movement speed penalty, I only think it's balanced to give the spitfire the same courtesy.

I actually think that for the sake of variety, the spitfire should give a movement penalty. I'm not really sure I want all guns with a sort of 'samey' feel. Maybe a bigger buff for compensation.

The damage the thing puts out is fine, its the movement speed penalty which has to go. Quite frankly its stupid that a gun on par with the typhoon; one is slightly better versus armour (typhoon), one is MUCH better versus infantry (spitfire) has such a huge movement impairment.

[billy the squid]

Annomander wrote...

Lathlaer wrote...

Anno, how's that video? I'm really curious how it performs on your Trooper. Tried it yestarday and it wasn't half bad but what annoyed me the most was the slowing down (even when hipfiring).

I'm at work right now for about 5 more minutes when my lift gets here, I'll post again soon with the link.

Without an AR III amp, using mag and barrel + AP IV and an AR amp V for gear, it takes down an atlas faster than the typhoon does when used on the same class. Chews through infantry with impunity and takes down bosses only marginally slower than the typhoon does using an equivalent set up.

The gun is a monster, and (similar to other ARs) benefits greatly from consumables, and benefits greatly from being used on the geth trooper who boosts it's base damage even further, meaning with AP ammo, EB + consumables its damage versus armour is only marginally less than the typhoon... 

The higher base damage scales better with additive weapon damage, meaning its armour damage is not that much less than the typhoon's. Will post some calculations soon, but might be worth comparing a weapons build geth trooper with typhoon versus a weapons build geth trooper with spitfire (I have both at X) on narida's. The damage is great...





Now all we need is for Fagnan and co. to wake up and remove the movement speed penalty; which at the moment is the ONLY thing holding this gun back. Typhoon does better damage versus armour, spitfire has more spare ammo and a larger clip... The spitfire becomes a drag with the movement speed penalty, an I would be extremely grateful if Fagnan realised that the gun's weight and it's lower armour damage is enough to balance it, without retaining the movement speed penalty...

At the moment, the movement speed reduction is the breaking point.... remove the movement speed penalty and this truly would be a gun worth using on anything that's not a geth soldier. As the typhoon has NO movement speed penalty, I only think it's balanced to give the spitfire the same courtesy.

You see that's the issue I have, if they keep with the speed and weight penalties, which are massive drawbacks on anything outside the Juggernaut. Then it really needs a further buff, preferably in RoF, rather than dmg, to really burn through armoured targets, as attacks from an Atlas etc. are going to be an issue with the speed reduction.

At the moment I don't find the trade off worth it, in comparison to the Typhoon or the PPR. If the weight and speed reduction was to be adressed, then I'd give the weapon more extensive play on the Geth Trooper certainly.

[UnknownMercenary]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

The point the poster was making was very simple: There's a bunch of guns that one can rock without consumables to wipe their noses for them: The Argus, Saber, Valkyrie, and Striker, just to name a few from the same weapon family. These can work just dandy without consumables fixing their problems. They make consumables shine brighter, sure, but they don't expressly need them for Gold. That's a far cry from the pre-buff Spitfire, which is still basically undergunned if not used expressly by Geth characters.

Very few guns "rock" without consumables, and certainly none of those outside of maybe the Saber that you listed.

I have been a proponent of assault rifle buffs for a long time, including the Spitfire, but there is a very flawed thesis floating around that things should be buffed to the Harrier level because it's the only gun worth using. Why? Because cheap skates are stockpiling consumables for whatever bloody reason when they drop all the damn time. The number of good and even great weapons on Gold skyrockets from 2 if people were willing to use their consumables.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

I only have it at II currently and am very interested to try it out at a higher level.
I put it on a Geth Soldier last night with the piercing mod + Extended Barrel, Drill Rounds, AR Amp III and Vulnerability VI V. It was very good vs mooks & shields, but it was painful vs Armor.

I guess I'll have to level it up some and try it out with AP IV ammo then?

Can't make a fair comparison with the Typhoon, since my Typhoon's at X. Has anyone else had a pleasant experience like Annomander's?

[UnknownMercenary]

I found it lacking at X on a Juggernaut with consumables out the gills, and on Destroyer it was slightly better but the movement penalty was lacking. The Typhoon felt like the superior option for both.

I spoke with Zjarcal who had a good time with it on the GI.

[Trogdorx]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Trogdorx wrote...

Consumables are powerups. Hubcaps. Sprinkles. They should not be integral to the weapon's effectiveness. Why would you, the average player, use a weapon that is only good if you're using consumable powerups, when you can use a different weapon that works well naked, and works even better with said consumables?

What I take away from this, every time the argument is posted, is that the Harrier should be nerfed.

Into the f*cking ground.

I dont even use the harrier, but pretty much every other rare/UR, I can take it into gold without slapping any consumables on it and at least do okay. This thing makes me want to go Lonely Island on it.

"This ain't a gun, this is a cell phone! I took it, and threw it on the ground!"

[Plasma Defender]

Spitfire is the finest shame of a gun BW has ever mustered. They will never know balance even if it hit them like a freight train. You see, when you have many disadvantages to using a gun, it is supposed to pay off in raw firepower, the Spitfire does not do this.

Let me list disadvantages:
1. Heaviest gun in the game
2. 30% WTF speed deduction
3. Long ass charge time
4. Absolutely pathetic at armor
5. Ludicrous stability
6. Hard to come by in packs
7. Lackluster damage in general
8. Only DECENT to a few classes
9. Makes users extremely vulnerable

You see, every single one of those disadvantages would definitely be overlooked if the gun did great damage across all resistances. The only thing is has going for it is a really large clip. This gun will be USELESS until it's damage or fire or both is seriously buffed. It's not worth UR status, probably should be a silver.

It's good on Bronze, alright on Silver, pretty bad on Gold, and horrid on Platinum.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Plasma Defender wrote...

Spitfire is the finest shame of a gun BW has ever mustered. They will never know balance even if it hit them like a freight train. You see, when you have many disadvantages to using a gun, it is supposed to pay off in raw firepower, the Spitfire does not do this.

Let me list disadvantages:
1. Heaviest gun in the game
2. 30% WTF speed deduction
3. Long ass charge time
4. Absolutely pathetic at armor
5. Ludicrous stability
6. Hard to come by in packs
7. Lackluster damage in general
8. Only DECENT to a few classes
9. Makes users extremely vulnerable

You see, every single one of those disadvantages would definitely be overlooked if the gun did great damage across all resistances. The only thing is has going for it is a really large clip. This gun will be USELESS until it's damage or fire or both is seriously buffed. It's not worth UR status, probably should be a silver.

It's good on Bronze, alright on Silver, pretty bad on Gold, and horrid on Platinum.

/thread.