282 réponses à ce sujet

[Archonsg]

Bottom line, if you *are truly happy* with *your* ending, why do you care what others choose for themselves?

[Reorte]

goose2989 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Are you telling me no one can just change that cinematic to a breath scene with a voice-over saying, "We've located Shepard, and we've got life signs," to give a happier hippier ending?

Well, now I ask you... would that REALLY have been enough to sate the rage?

I honestly don't think so.

It wouldn't have fixed everything, but I really think it would have helped a lot. I personally would be content; I wouldn't be thrilled, but I would be ok. 
 

I don't know about that. It only feels like that knowing what we did get. IMO there would've been quite a lot of anger anyway.

[JaegerBane]

cbutz wrote...

The difference between TDKR and HEMSDestory is that if TDKR was like ME3 it would stop at Alfred smiling at the camera.

If ME3 was like TDKR it would take the extra step that TDKR took, showing Bruce at the table drinking w/e, it may show Shepard being pulled out of the rubble, or sitting in a hospital bed, or something like that.

Yes, Bioware hints and indirectly hints at the squad finding Shepard and that he does survive, but it is not satisfying.

To a certain extent, yes, its certainly not as explicit as TKDR. Though we'll have to agree to disagree on what we find satisfying.

[shadey]

shep. dying was the best ending, making the ultimate sacrifice for humanity

I think forcing him to live cheapens it.

[Jadebaby]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...
Hey you're free to like whatever you want pal. I never even tried to insult you for that so if that's what you're seeing, it's all in your own head.

One would assume a stupid picture of a guy laughing in response to my post counts as an insult.

If you actually read what I wrote on the link, you might have got a better idea, genius

What I am scrutinizing is you comparing them to C Nolan. That's just ridiculous. You cannot compare Bruce sitting there with his future lady, happy and content, to Shepard lying half dead in a piece of rubble eons away from any kind of help. The two are almost polar opposites.

Its definitely much harsher, and I've repeatedly stated that I'm not saying its the same ending. I'm saying the point, and the way it is depicted, is similar i.e. hints rather that THIS IS WHAT HAPPNENED scenes. And I'm not sure why he's 'eons away from help' being sat on a space station in Earth orbit surrounded by the sum total of the remaining forces of the entire galaxy.

The fleets are gone and people on Earth would be looking for loved ones and rebuilding, not looking for some space hitler.

I still can't believe people eat up this breath scene as good writing.

[Jadebaby]

Archonsg wrote...

Bottom line, if you *are truly happy* with *your* ending, why do you care what others choose for themselves?

Exactly, if all people were like this BSN would be a much happier place. But no, it's a constant struggle by people trying to boost up their own ending, while putting other endings down.

It's actually quite sad. The way I reason it is that anyone doing this, has a deep-seeded problem with their own ending and have to put down others to try and make themselves feel better about choosing said ending.

[Reorte]

JaegerBane wrote...

Reorte wrote...
We've got the equivalent of someone we knew was in a building that got hit by an earthquake, only with a lot more searching needed because the Citadel (even just the Presidium, or just the tower) is a pretty big place.

If you're honestly suggesting that the story is supposed to be showing Shep surviving the final blast but dying because of a simple matter of physically locating him in time... then, I'd direct you to back to my point about believing what you want to believe. The simple matter is that the scene has no reason to exist if he's dead. He would have gone out just like Mordin.

You seem to be missing the point. It's nothing to do with believing what I want to believe, it's to do with a scene that shows someone in a bad state with realistically little hope of being found in time. I just don't see how you can argue otherwise. It is also fairly clear that that wasn't the intention, but whatever the intention that is what is shown and that is what I subconciously react to. So whilst I can rationalise and say "Yep, Shepard survives because I can see that's the intention" it doesn't make it feel any better at all.

[Dr_Extrem]

shadey wrote...

shep. dying was the best ending, making the ultimate sacrifice for humanity

I think forcing him to live cheapens it.

what sacrifice? .. its not a self-sacrifice, if it is forced on the sacrificed. this makes the sacrificed an offering ... thats all.

[Reorte]

1andonly wrote...

Yes. If he/she was dead why would they even bother making a different ending for this version? Why show his supposedly last breath only on this one? Why only on this one the LI didn't put the name on the wall?

And that is why it's crap and unsatisfactory because you've got to consider the thinking behind the writing and editing, which is in contrast to what's actually shown, even to the point of metagaming (if you see it on your first playthrough you've no idea that those things don't happen in the other endings).

Modifié par Reorte, 10 mars 2013 - 02:03 .

[JaegerBane]

Jadebaby wrote...
If you actually read what I wrote on the link, you might have got a better idea, genius

And if you're honestly stating that you can't figure out why someone would find posting smart-ass pictures in response to their point insulting, then I'd suggest you stick to text.

The fleets are gone and people on Earth would be looking for loved ones and rebuilding, not looking for some space hitler.

I still can't believe people eat up this breath scene as good writing.

And I still can't believe people actually are trying to say Shep surives all that only to die from purely logistical difficulties... but then, the scene itself is supposed to open to one's interpretation.

Frankly, the idea that everyone (inclusing Hackett and Wrex) is aware that Shep succeeded in doing what he set out to do and will nonetheless simply not bother trying to look for him is downright silly.

[ct700-5a]

I chose to use MEHEM becasue I dislike the Catalyst. So much so, that I'm willing to break emersion by turning off my Xbox and watching it on Youtube. My problem isn't with the endings as a whole. I love what the EC added to destroy and I'm okay with Sheperd dying (though I do wish it was done in a more logical way). The Catalyst ruins the excitement I have up through Andersen's death. Honestly, I would be fine with the endings if I didn't have to talk to the Catalyst. That scene has my Sheperd acting completely out of character. While she would have selected one of the options, she would have argued with the Catalyst. In game she is too accepting of his logic. Also, I have a hard time having to make a decision based on a conflict that I'm not sure is inevitable. All in all, this scene makes it impossible for me to enjoy Hacket's speech or to feel satisfied at the games end. The catalyst is so bad it ruins what comes after it, despite it being content that I love. MEHEM prevents my experience from being ruined at the end. I can still enjoy what I liked about the EC and I can end the game feeling enthused. MEHEM leaves me willing to replay the series.

[JaegerBane]

Reorte wrote...

You seem to be missing the point. It's nothing to do with believing what I want to believe, it's to do with a scene that shows someone in a bad state with realistically little hope of being found in time. I just don't see how you can argue otherwise.

I think the point is that the scene actually shows you very little, hence how open it is to interpretation. You only know that he's alive at that point. You don't know how injured he is, and you certainly can't take away from the scene details like the likelihood of being found vs his survival chances etc. There is nothing about that scene that contradicts the idea that Shepard might well die of his injuries before he's found (or even if he's found), but then it begs the question why the scene was placed in the first place - particularly considering it only shows up with high EMS.

It is also fairly clear that that wasn't the intention, but whatever the intention that is what is shown and that is what I subconciously react to. So whilst I can rationalise and say "Yep, Shepard survives because I can see that's the intention" it doesn't make it feel any better at all.

Somewhat. I guess that boils down to how much you're willing to take from the scene itself.

[Bill Casey]

chemiclord wrote...

If I have to make a choice between disrespecting fans or disrespecting writers, I am going to side with the writers just about every time.  Perhaps it's because I'm a writer myself, and I feel a misplaced solidarity.  I dunno.

I side with anything that might prevent a fan suicide...

[Adanu]

The entitled brats that are the disney ending people are constantly living in denial. Let them have their fan fiction if it makes them happy and stop spamming the damn forums about it.

[JaegerBane]

Archonsg wrote...

Bottom line, if you *are truly happy* with *your* ending, why do you care what others choose for themselves?

I can only speak for myself here, but I care because I'm intrigued as to how they reached that conclusion. I know I personally didn't sit down and consciously rationalise what I saw into an ending that met my approval, I simply sat and watched it and took it at face value.

The thing is, scenes like this are sufficiently vague to invite interpretation, so I'm interested to hear how people came to an interpratation so different to mine.

[Reorte]

JaegerBane wrote...

Reorte wrote...

You seem to be missing the point. It's nothing to do with believing what I want to believe, it's to do with a scene that shows someone in a bad state with realistically little hope of being found in time. I just don't see how you can argue otherwise.

I think the point is that the scene actually shows you very little, hence how open it is to interpretation. You only know that he's alive at that point. You don't know how injured he is, and you certainly can't take away from the scene details like the likelihood of being found vs his survival chances etc. There is nothing about that scene that contradicts the idea that Shepard might well die of his injuries before he's found (or even if he's found), but then it begs the question why the scene was placed in the first place - particularly considering it only shows up with high EMS.

As I said I don't consider things like the fact it only shows up in high EMS as a valid argument (because it requires knowing the alternatives, i.e. metagaming). Shepard seemed in a bad enough state though before he even shot the tube. It's not conclusive of course but purely based on the content alone it leans rather more towards bad than good.

I think that very little was, again, the intention, so headcanon whatever you like, but even that completely fails for me since it tries to make me the author instead of the participant at the end; whilst I can happily daydream about what might happen in a story that's not the same as knowing it.

It is also fairly clear that that wasn't the intention, but whatever the intention that is what is shown and that is what I subconciously react to. So whilst I can rationalise and say "Yep, Shepard survives because I can see that's the intention" it doesn't make it feel any better at all.

Somewhat. I guess that boils down to how much you're willing to take from the scene itself.

Conciously or subconciously? Or somewhere in between? I react to what's shown; part of suspension of disbelief is to try to persuade yourself that it's more than just a story, at least at that time, so my reaction (if not the scale of my reaction) to any scene would be the same as if it was what I knew in reality. Later analysis might change my opinion but not my feeling towards it (unless it's a case of missing something I really should've seen).

Modifié par Reorte, 10 mars 2013 - 02:26 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Adanu wrote...

The entitled brats that are the disney ending people are constantly living in denial. Let them have their fan fiction if it makes them happy and stop spamming the damn forums about it.

have you played the citadel-dlc?

[Reorte]

1andonly wrote...

I completely understand not liking the catalyst, I also understand not liking to have to choose from the choices given to you by the catalyst (not the choices themselves, but the fact that they were given by the catalyst). You say you're fine with the choices. I beieve people wouldn't be happy if they had to choose from choices given by Harbinger or any other reaper. But then I ask how much of it came from the necessity of explaining the choices and the consequences to the player. So BW wanted you to choose between the 3 choices, not have just one standad ending. Suppose Shepard got to the crucible by him/herself and had the 3 choices. Would that be any better? I believe many fans would think so, since they had a problem with the catalyst. But then, how would the player have it explained to him/her what the choices were and what the consequences were? Or the reason for the cycle? And be able to ask questions? They couldn't just put a datapad with the crucible's user's guide. So I wonder how much of the catalyst was put there just to explain the choices to you.

That should've been revealed throughout the entire story so that when you come to the end you don't need an exposition dump. Or possibly even a decision (since what goes on at the end would ideally be a result of what you did throughout all three games, i.e. were you in agreement with TIM or not most of the time?)

[Iakus]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Adanu wrote...

The entitled brats that are the disney ending people are constantly living in denial. Let them have their fan fiction if it makes them happy and stop spamming the damn forums about it.

have you played the citadel-dlc?

Bah, don't feed the troll.

[JaegerBane]

Reorte wrote...
As I said I don't consider things like the fact it only shows up in high EMS as a valid argument (because it requires knowing the alternatives, i.e. metagaming). Shepard seemed in a bad enough state though before he even shot the tube. It's not conclusive of course but purely based on the content alone it leans rather more towards bad than good.

That's a fair point, as the story itself is supposed to end in only one way, so in theory any one playthrough will only go down one path and other endings will be irrelevant.

Even so, I guess the issue I have with that standpoint is that if it was trying to depict Shepard as dead, I don't really understand what the scene was adding. This is purely my own gut feeling from playing it the first time, seeing the red explosion, thinking 'damn, he's gone out in a blaze of glory', watching the slides etc and then suddenly this final scene pops up and finishes just as he takes a breath. The issue with high EMS is more of an extra point in favour of my viewpoint rather than the reasoning itself.

I think that very little was, again, the intention, so headcanon whatever you like, but even that completely fails for me since it tries to make me the author instead of the participant at the end; whilst I can happily daydream about what might happen in a story that's not the same as knowing it.

True. I'm not totally sure why Bioware chose to do this given that ME has always been about the player's own choice, but I guess they were ending Shep's story the same way it was introduced - give the player a bit of basic info and leave it up to them to decide the detail.

Conciously or subconciously? Or somewhere in between? I react to what's shown; part of suspension of disbelief is to try to persuade yourself that it's more than just a story, at least at that time, so my reaction (if not the scale of my reaction) to any scene would be the same as if it was what I knew in reality. Later analysis might change my opinion but not my feeling towards it (unless it's a case of missing something I really should've seen).

Indeed, and that's partially why I was surprised when I heard people saying 'blah, the scene is too vague' or 'he's dead' - I took it for what it is and didn't think too much into it until I heard people stating that they'd come to completely different conclusions.

[Bill Casey]

chemiclord wrote...

It IS a shame, because YES, fans are what make professional writers possible.  But the simple fact is that no matter how invested fans think they are.  No matter how much time and money fans think they have poured into a story... the creators of that story have poured a hundredfold more.

When a Naruto fan kills himself because his favorite character died, he has invested himself more than the creator...
When you're fourteen years old and you commit suicide over a work, you've given up more time than the creators ever could...

For ill, but still...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 10 mars 2013 - 02:46 .

[Nelatherion]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Nelatherion wrote...

People just wanted to see Shepard having a reunion with his/her love interest. Because apparently everyone needs a Disney fairy tail ending otherwise it is a terrible ending.

*goes into blood rage* *head butt* Bull crap!

It is pretty well known that the "breath scene" was not originally the intended final ending for the High EMS Destroy ending. It was supposed to be a lot more optimistic than that on New Game+, but Super Mac had a cow about it. It was still supposed to be a cliff hanger, maybe someone grabbing Shepard's arm and cutting it there. It was supposed to be a definite Shepard survives.

And why not a reunion. Even Marcus Fenix, that ugly mug, got to hold hands with Anya at the end of Gears 3 FFS. Was Gears 3 a "Disney Fairy Tale Ending?" BTW tails are on animals. Tales are stories.

Where does it say that the "original intended ending for the high EMS Destroy ending was not supposed to be the breather scene"? 

Having a clear cut "Shepard lives" scene would be out of place with the rest of the game. 

Why not a reunion? Because then you have a single "happily ever after" end, which Bioware never intended. Victory through sacrifice.
Who cares if Marcus Fenix got to hold hands again at the end of Gears of War 3, it is not Mass Effect. I also know bugger all about Gears of War so I can say diddly squat about it, but the entire game has lead up to Shepard giving his/her life in the name of stopping the Reapers. Having a reunion would be a cop out to please a certain vocal community while completely ignoring the forshadowing and tone through out the entire game.

Well bugger me, I spelt a word wrong. Please ignore everything I have said because clearly you Sir, you Sir are a much mightier man than I! I grovel at your feet in awe at your spelling prowess and beg forgivness for my heinous crime!