282 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

Reorte wrote...

That should've been revealed throughout the entire story so that when you come to the end you don't need an exposition dump. Or possibly even a decision (since what goes on at the end would ideally be a result of what you did throughout all three games, i.e. were you in agreement with TIM or not most of the time?)

Holy hell... do you HONESTLY think there wouldn't be the equivalent of a nuclear MELTDOWN in the fanbase if ME3 concluded without giving players a final option?

I'll give you a hint, take the rage we got and multiply it by 100.

[Dr_Extrem]

Nelatherion wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Nelatherion wrote...

People just wanted to see Shepard having a reunion with his/her love interest. Because apparently everyone needs a Disney fairy tail ending otherwise it is a terrible ending.

*goes into blood rage* *head butt* Bull crap!

It is pretty well known that the "breath scene" was not originally the intended final ending for the High EMS Destroy ending. It was supposed to be a lot more optimistic than that on New Game+, but Super Mac had a cow about it. It was still supposed to be a cliff hanger, maybe someone grabbing Shepard's arm and cutting it there. It was supposed to be a definite Shepard survives.

And why not a reunion. Even Marcus Fenix, that ugly mug, got to hold hands with Anya at the end of Gears 3 FFS. Was Gears 3 a "Disney Fairy Tale Ending?" BTW tails are on animals. Tales are stories.

Where does it say that the "original intended ending for the high EMS Destroy ending was not supposed to be the breather scene"? 

Having a clear cut "Shepard lives" scene would be out of place with the rest of the game. 

Why not a reunion? Because then you have a single "happily ever after" end, which Bioware never intended. Victory through sacrifice.
Who cares if Marcus Fenix got to hold hands again at the end of Gears of War 3, it is not Mass Effect. I also know bugger all about Gears of War so I can say diddly squat about it, but the entire game has lead up to Shepard giving his/her life in the name of stopping the Reapers. Having a reunion would be a cop out to please a certain vocal community while completely ignoring the forshadowing and tone through out the entire game.

Well bugger me, I spelt a word wrong. Please ignore everything I have said because clearly you Sir, you Sir are a much mightier man than I! I grovel at your feet in awe at your spelling prowess and beg forgivness for my heinous crime! 

but the game does have this scene.

this breathe-scene was originally part of the high ems destroy ending (the high requirements were a bug). its intent was to show, that shepard survived the catalysm.

this is reinforced by the ec-memorial scene. (the li hestiates to put the nameplate on the wall)


the writers intent was perfectly clear - its execution is the problem.

[EnvyTB075]

chemiclord wrote...
Holy hell... do you HONESTLY think there wouldn't be the equivalent of a nuclear MELTDOWN in the fanbase if ME3 concluded without giving players a final option?

Yes, because no one wanted a "final choice" between A, B, C and D, they wanted a single ending with differing variables in how the end-game played out due to the actions taken in game. A suicide mission version 2.0.

As it stands now, having the Quarians, Geth or both is utterly pointless due to the incredibly low threshold to unlock all endings, making it meaningless. You never see any Geth ships in the end game, you don't see any Geth in the ground assault. You've simply been told they're there. Woo, how exciting....

Its like telling a friend about how great an Airshow was, but they're not going to be as enthused as you are simply because they weren't there.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 10 mars 2013 - 03:16 .

[Jadebaby]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...
If you actually read what I wrote on the link, you might have got a better idea, genius

And if you're honestly stating that you can't figure out why someone would find posting smart-ass pictures in response to their point insulting, then I'd suggest you stick to text.

The fleets are gone and people on Earth would be looking for loved ones and rebuilding, not looking for some space hitler.

I still can't believe people eat up this breath scene as good writing.

And I still can't believe people actually are trying to say Shep surives all that only to die from purely logistical difficulties... but then, the scene itself is supposed to open to one's interpretation.

Frankly, the idea that everyone (inclusing Hackett and Wrex) is aware that Shep succeeded in doing what he set out to do and will nonetheless simply not bother trying to look for him is downright silly.

Believe what you want, Sheps a space monster, and honestly. They should have killed Shepard in the Destroy ending like they originally planned. Because allowing him/her to survive, just says to people "hey, genocide is okay."

And purely logistical reasons? Oh yea because it had NOTHING to do with the burn, blunt force and gunshot traumas s/he underwent. No, if anything that would help her/him survive right?

[Eterna]

Meh, if people need it to feel content with the game then that's their business and I'm happy for them. I don't really see a problem with it.

[The Heretic of Time]

Nice headcanon OP, but that's not how the Destroy ending went.

In the real Destroy ending, EDI and the geth got... well... destroyed, obviously.

[The Heretic of Time]

Mr.House wrote...

I'll stick with MEHEM, which is bittersweet.

There is nothing bitter about MEHEM.

[EnvyTB075]

Jadebaby wrote...

And purely logistical reasons? Oh yea because it had NOTHING to do with the burn, blunt force and gunshot traumas s/he underwent. No, if anything that would help her/him survive right?

*sigh*

You forget that when playing the game the first time, YOU DO NOT KNOW that you can survive at all in Destroy. Shepard surviving is NOT a primary motivating factor unless the player has willingly spoiled the game for themselves, in which their reasoning is void.

[ct700-5a]

1andonly wrote...

ct700-5a wrote...

I chose to use MEHEM becasue I dislike the Catalyst. So much so, that I'm willing to break emersion by turning off my Xbox and watching it on Youtube. My problem isn't with the endings as a whole. I love what the EC added to destroy and I'm okay with Sheperd dying (though I do wish it was done in a more logical way). The Catalyst ruins the excitement I have up through Andersen's death. Honestly, I would be fine with the endings if I didn't have to talk to the Catalyst. That scene has my Sheperd acting completely out of character. While she would have selected one of the options, she would have argued with the Catalyst. In game she is too accepting of his logic. Also, I have a hard time having to make a decision based on a conflict that I'm not sure is inevitable. All in all, this scene makes it impossible for me to enjoy Hacket's speech or to feel satisfied at the games end. The catalyst is so bad it ruins what comes after it, despite it being content that I love. MEHEM prevents my experience from being ruined at the end. I can still enjoy what I liked about the EC and I can end the game feeling enthused. MEHEM leaves me willing to replay the series.

I completely understand not liking the catalyst, I also understand not liking to have to choose from the choices given to you by the catalyst (not the choices themselves, but the fact that they were given by the catalyst). You say you're fine with the choices. I beieve people wouldn't be happy if they had to choose from choices given by Harbinger or any other reaper. But then I ask how much of it came from the necessity of explaining the choices and the consequences to the player. So BW wanted you to choose between the 3 choices, not have just one standad ending. Suppose Shepard got to the crucible by him/herself and had the 3 choices. Would that be any better? I believe many fans would think so, since they had a problem with the catalyst. But then, how would the player have it explained to him/her what the choices were and what the consequences were? Or the reason for the cycle? And be able to ask questions? They couldn't just put a datapad with the crucible's user's guide. So I wonder how much of the catalyst was put there just to explain the choices to you.

I'm more okay with what comes after the choices, not so much control or synthesis. My preference would have been us to not have a final choice. We've made a large number of hard choices that carried a huge impacts. What I believe should have happened would be for us to have to make choices leading up to the use of the Crucible. Not in regards to what happens to the Reapers, but with how we use our war assets. Kind of like a larger version of the Suicide Mission. Destroy was the goal throughout and I believe that should have been the only "ending," but it should have taken into acount a large number of variables. The choices we've made prior to Priority Earth, in addition to using our war assets correctly, should have determined what happens. The endings should have then ranged from the Crucible failing to a clear victory and everythin in between. From here we should have had an epilogue scene based on whatever state the galaxy was in. 

Modifié par ct700-5a, 10 mars 2013 - 03:34 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I'll stick with MEHEM, which is bittersweet.

There is nothing bitter about MEHEM.

only if you ignore the destroyed infrastructure, smashed relay network (and not being able to fix them soon), planets who lie in ashes, billions of dead people, cut off colonies (who are mostly not self sustaining), cut off communications ...

surly, the bitterness is reduced - but not cut out.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 10 mars 2013 - 03:34 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I'll stick with MEHEM, which is bittersweet.

There is nothing bitter about MEHEM.

only if you ignore the destroyed infrastructure, smashed relay network (and not being able to fix them soon), planets who lie in ashes, billions of dead people, cut off colonies (who are mostly not self sustaining), cut off communications ...

surly, the bitterness is reduced - but not cut out.

There is none of that in MEHEM. Hell, most of what you just said isn't even in the original Destroy ending (unless you have a low EMS).

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Believe what you want, Sheps a space monster, and honestly. They should have killed Shepard in the Destroy ending like they originally planned. Because allowing him/her to survive, just says to people "hey, genocide is okay."

I'm pretty sure that virtually everyone on the Normandy expressing approval when I sided with the quarians already said to me that that particular "genocide" was okay a lot more than my Shepard surviving the ending did.

Wiping out the Geth goes over even more smoothly if you sold Legion to Cerb like I did.

[The Heretic of Time]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Gangnam Style wrote...

ruining the galaxy is worth it so i can bang my waifu/husbando

I'm glad you agree, Gangnam Style. I'd burn the galaxy to see my Shepard and Liara throw down in the bedroom again.

I'd burn you.

You don't even need to choose Destroy or MEHEM in order to be able to bang your waifu. I chose Control, but that doesn't mean my Shepard can't bang his waifu Liara anymore. I've seen enough hentai to know that it's perfectly possible. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 10 mars 2013 - 03:44 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I'll stick with MEHEM, which is bittersweet.

There is nothing bitter about MEHEM.

only if you ignore the destroyed infrastructure, smashed relay network (and not being able to fix them soon), planets who lie in ashes, billions of dead people, cut off colonies (who are mostly not self sustaining), cut off communications ...

surly, the bitterness is reduced - but not cut out.

There is none of that in MEHEM. Hell, most of what you just said isn't even in the original Destroy ending (unless you have a low EMS).

i am confused ..

the relays are destroyed or at least severly damaged. we dont have the knowledge to repair them any time soon - even the protheans had to pour nearly unlimited resources into ilos and they only managed to build one point to point pair.

the relay network also handles communication throughout the galaxy. without the relays, the colonies are cut off from ther homeworlds. horizon i.e. is an agrarian world, who imports ther sterile terminator seeds, from earth (codex me2) without supply, the cant grow crops.

billions of people died during the invasion. that is a fact, that mass effect 3 tells us every moment. hamburg, adelade .. all industrial centres on earth are destroyed. palavan is burning and a big shroud of dust is reducing the sunlight (codex me3) and poses a health hazard. thessia was hit with full force.


mehem did not change any of that.

[Inquisitor Recon]

There was never a need, some people just can't accept that sacrifices have to be made.

[Nykara]

Misterpinky0 wrote...

I'll admit that I'm quite conflicted myself. On one hand, I'd enjoy the heck out of a happier ending. On the other hand, modifying the game files to use a fan fiction ending feels like cheating. On the other hand, if it's better written, then who cares? On the other hand, it isn't really any better written. It still has the massive plot hole of "Wait, what exactly was that glowy pulse again?" On the other hand, more dialogue from Harbinger. On the other hand, a happier ending conflicts with the tone of the rest of the game and feels off to me.

I could go on like that for a while.

I personally don't like changing the game from what which the devs have writen but thats just me. I don't care if it is or isnt better 'writen' it is not the story that we were given. I don't see why the entire starkid scene has to be negated. I have no issues with that. I do think that the ending needed some more closure and expanding on. I think we should have had a Kasumi type program for our LI's to plug in to and have a final conversation with Shep on the ones where Shep died so she could have a chance to tell them to move on and have a happy life etc in a recording ( with players choosing what Shep put in there with conversation options) and the happy reunion on the destroy ending.

[The Heretic of Time]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the relays are destroyed or at least severly damaged. we dont have the knowledge to repair them any time soon - even the protheans had to pour nearly unlimited resources into ilos and they only managed to build one point to point pair.

Wrong. The EC heavily implies that the relays can be fixed rather easily and quickly. MEHEM implies that even more by showing Shepard and his gang roaming the galaxy again in the Normandy rather quickly (without Shepard looking any older).

the relay network also handles communication throughout the galaxy. without the relays, the colonies are cut off from ther homeworlds. horizon i.e. is an agrarian world, who imports ther sterile terminator seeds, from earth (codex me2) without supply, the cant grow crops.

Only a temporary setback. Relays are fixed soon.

billions of people died during the invasion. that is a fact, that mass effect 3 tells us every moment. hamburg, adelade .. all industrial centres on earth are destroyed. palavan is burning and a big shroud of dust is reducing the sunlight (codex me3) and poses a health hazard. thessia was hit with full force.

And how is that related to the ending?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 10 mars 2013 - 03:51 .

[JamieCOTC]

BW's best/happy ending to ME3 is Synthesis. It's written in the script that way and the EC makes it pretty clear. The whole "your ending is the best ending" didn't come out until after the backlash. So if destroy or control or some mod gives you a happy ending, great, but it's not the "official" best/happy ending.

Then again, you could just not care what BW thinks and choose destroy, control, install a mod or stop at the end of Citadel.

[Chashan]

There is none of that in MEHEM. Hell, most of what you just said isn't
even in the original Destroy ending (unless you have a low EMS).

Uhm, the ramifications of the 'demolition' of the relays are still out there, since it's acknowledged by Hackett's narration right off the bat, in EC. First incarnation of Red, sure, one can go with whatever the hell floats one's boat, although the question is why one should bother with making the...incomplete presentation of the devs' 'message' a basis for one's argument, with the EC, the clarification of their "true" message, out.

Same goes for picking up the pieces after a galaxy-wide, apocalyptic struggle. Not absent from Hackett's speech, either.

There was never a need, some people just can't accept that sacrifices have to be made.

If said 'sacrifice' in a fictional story is a poorly carried-out mess, why bother with others electing to discard it?

As Archonsg said: why would that be of concern, if someone is satisifed with what's provided?

Modifié par Chashan, 10 mars 2013 - 03:51 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the relays are destroyed or at least severly damaged. we dont have the knowledge to repair them any time soon - even the protheans had to pour nearly unlimited resources into ilos and they only managed to build one point to point pair.

Wrong. The EC heavily implies that the relays can be fixed rather easily and quickly. MEHEM implies that even more by showing Shepard and his gang roaming the galaxy again in the Normandy rather quickly (without Shepard looking any older).

the relay network also handles communication throughout the galaxy. without the relays, the colonies are cut off from ther homeworlds. horizon i.e. is an agrarian world, who imports ther sterile terminator seeds, from earth (codex me2) without supply, the cant grow crops.

Only a temporary setback. Relays are fixed soon.

billions of people died during the invasion. that is a fact, that mass effect 3 tells us every moment. hamburg, adelade .. all industrial centres on earth are destroyed. palavan is burning and a big shroud of dust is reducing the sunlight (codex me3) and poses a health hazard. thessia was hit with full force.

And how is that related to the ending?

the ec tells, that we can rebuild the relays .. but it does not tell us, how long it takes - in control, the reapers fix them in no time (they already have begun)

shepard does not "roam the galaxy" .. they are flying to mars .. (this vid is most likely subject to change)

you imply that the repays will be fixed in time .. that is your headcanon, based on what you see. the facts say, that there is no infrastructure left and most scientists are probably dead.

the relay-pair has to be fixed on both sides to work. hint .. the arcturus system is nearly dead - the people on benning have no spaceships left .. (the reapers destroyed them) and no communication is possible. the survivors from earth would have to fly there "oldschool".

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 10 mars 2013 - 04:00 .