282 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

We are given a bloody real winner of a choice in the end.

1) knock off the geth and all AIs and kill the reapers and space hitler.
2) put the galaxy under the watchful eye of an AI dictator - we know how well that worked the last time.
3) rewrite every living creature in the galaxy in the most idiotic manner possible.
4) let the entire galaxy die and just pass the buck to the next cycle.

Now that's what I call a real deal. Pick your poison. Thanks a bundle. The first choice represents the foreign policies of most nations on the earth. Choice 2? well we know by looking around on our own planet how those usually turn out. Choice 3? well no one's done it because it's well... smudboy did a number on this one. And Choice 4? This is ethical and emotional paralysis. We can't destroy them because of ethics and feelings, but since they lack both they will have no problem in destroying us.

OR ... we can mod the game and just ignore their ending and use our own.

Personally, I don't care what you pick. The community mod made the game playable again for me.

Quite honestly, if you didn't play the Original Ending, you wouldn't really know the Geth and EDI would die in the EC ending. The language got changed in the EC. In the Original Ending it was right out there: "It is in your power to destroy us. You can destroy all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth."

Now it is:

"All synthetics will be targeted." Then you ask for clarification, and glowboy says "Your crucible is largely intact. There will be losses, but nothing more than you have already sustained." or some horsehockey like that, whatever that means. Take that for what it is. This way you don't know for certain that the Geth are dead -- notice the debate that has gone on since the new players around November over their fate, and those who have only played the EC version of the game. The only indication that something is wrong is that you see EDI's name on the board now during the memorial scene.

Yet the Normandy seems to be perfectly capable of flying without EDI. I thought she was the Normandy's computer. Apparently not.

----------

So the way I had it figured was to meta game through ME2 so that peace between Quarians and Geth was impossible (get Legion Killed), and side with the Quarians. Okay that takes care of the Geth and eliminates the genocide by your hands because Geth VI is not the warm and fuzzy Geth. That leaves EDI. I feel bad about this, but under the new ending you technically "don't know" by metagaming standards, so choosing destroy would be acceptable.

However, I hate the Starbrat scene so bad, and I hate being stuck under the pile of rubble, and wanted to see Liara again. Thus MEHEM does the trick, and it does have benefits: the Geth and EDI live. I get to see Liara again.

But pick the ending you want. I don't care. It's no skin off my nose. Just don't tell my I'm destroying the trilogy by using MEHEM. It's my own artistic integrity involved here: Music score for the space battle work in progress -- this is going to take a while.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 10 mars 2013 - 04:03 .

[ct700-5a]

1andonly wrote...

I fully agree that another version of the suicide mission would have been much better than any "choose between these endings" scenario, whatever those endings might be. The suicide mission is probably my favorite mission in the entire trilogy (I may be forgetting other missions here, but it's definitely in my top 3) due to how much all the factors can directly influence the outcome. But I was talking more in terms of "BW already decided that you'd have to actually choose between these 3 endings", I believe that the dialogue with the catalyst may have been there more as a solution to how they would present you with the choices than anything else.

In that case they could have given more exposition on the function of the Crucible via Hacket. He could have told Sheperd that the Crucible team has discovered that it has three functions- control, destroy, and synthesis. Then they could have discused the costs and benefits of each. Afterwards, the player could have received input from their crew and Anderson. This would have been much better than having your enemy offer and explain the choices and it may have been able to remove the organic-synthetic conflict. It would have simply been a decision on which would have been better for the galaxy. Having input fom people the player trusted would have made each a compelling option.

Modifié par ct700-5a, 10 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Seboist wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Believe what you want, Sheps a space monster, and honestly. They should have killed Shepard in the Destroy ending like they originally planned. Because allowing him/her to survive, just says to people "hey, genocide is okay."

I'm pretty sure that virtually everyone on the Normandy expressing approval when I sided with the quarians already said to me that that particular "genocide" was okay a lot more than my Shepard surviving the ending did.

Wiping out the Geth goes over even more smoothly if you sold Legion to Cerb like I did.

I don't do that. It could come back and bite me. I just tell Legion not to send anything during the argument and then use him for my "specialist" on the first leg of the SM. LOLz. Oh well, there goes my desk lamp. :innocent:

The whole thing goes quite smoothly on Rannoch.

[RedBeardJim]

JamieCOTC wrote...

BW's best/happy ending to ME3 is Synthesis. It's written in the script that way and the EC makes it pretty clear. The whole "your ending is the best ending" didn't come out until after the backlash. So if destroy or control or some mod gives you a happy ending, great, but it's not the "official" best/happy ending.

Then again, you could just not care what BW thinks and choose destroy, control, install a mod or stop at the end of Citadel.

+1

[SDW]

chemiclord wrote...
And it's not just about the Catalyst (the mod handwaves it, but it still cuts it completely out).  The MEHEM also spares the geth and EDI, which was explicity stated (and shown) would not be the case with the Destroy ending.  Like it or not (I particularly don't), that's still completely changing the framework of the ending.

That's disrespecting the creator's intent.  I'm sorry, but it's true.

I think that's where your problem with the mod lies. You watch it from a different angle than those who like it.
You feel changing it is something people shouldn't do.
But this is about feelings. Try to see it from a different perspective. Other people finished this game and felt the ending was jarring. They liked the overall story, just like you did. Then the ending came and was so unlike the preceding 2 endings, so unfitting to what came before. Like the ending to a different story (and indeed, it has a different premise than the story before - which I explained here social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/15414101/9#15437725). Well, whichever way you describe it: These people felt bad about the ending. That is the sentiment from which MEHEM was made, I dare say. Not "We are better at this than you are, Bioware!", but "Oh man, the way they ended it depresses me. And they're not even gonna change that anymore." It was self-help rather than arrogance.

And that's more or less what I'd say to the OP as well. For you, the original ending worked, and that is a great thing for you. For others, it didn't. A mod is a practical way of changing things without forcing anybody to participate.
Nice, huh?

Modifié par SDW, 10 mars 2013 - 04:25 .

[RedBeardJim]

SDW wrote...

chemiclord wrote...
And it's not just about the Catalyst (the mod handwaves it, but it still cuts it completely out).  The MEHEM also spares the geth and EDI, which was explicity stated (and shown) would not be the case with the Destroy ending.  Like it or not (I particularly don't), that's still completely changing the framework of the ending.

That's disrespecting the creator's intent.  I'm sorry, but it's true.

I think that's where your problem with the mod lies. You watch it from a different angle than those who like it.
I suppose you were content with the original endings, and you didn't feel a need to have things changed. That is fine - you're a lucky person! So, since you likely see the ending as well-written and fulfilling, you feel changing it is something people shouldn't do.

No, he doesn't like the endings either, and thinks they're badly done -- he just thinks you don't have the right to want to change them in any way, because otherwise you're not respecting the intent of the creators.

[chemiclord]

SDW wrote...

I think that's where your problem with the mod lies. You watch it from a different angle than those who like it.
I suppose you were content with the original endings, and you didn't feel a need to have things changed. That is fine - you're a lucky person! So, since you are likely seeing the ending as well-written, you feel changing it is something people shouldn't do.
But try to see it from a different perspective. Other people finished this game and felt the ending was jarring. They liked the overall story, just like you did. Then the ending came and was so unlike the preceding 2 endings, so unfitting to what came before. Like the ending to a different story (and indeed, it has a different premise than the story before - which I explained here social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/15414101/9#15437725). Well, whichever way you describe it: These people felt bad about the ending. That is the sentiment from which MEHEM was made, I dare say. Not "We are better at this than you are, Bioware!", but "Oh man, the way they ended it depresses me. And they're not even gonna change that anymore." It was self-help rather than arrogance.

Oh, HELL no.

Make no mistake, the ending to ME3 was a narrative DISASTER.  It was executed horribly, with massive logical gaps that they expected players to fill (which is an entirely separate argument I've had with fans that I'd rather not get into here).

Don't get me wrong.  It was received terribly, and fans did not like the message they were trying to send (which WAS fairly clear despite how horribly it was composed).  But it's Bioware's message to send, even if fans don't like it.  It's their right to do whatever they damn well want with the ending, no matter how "disappointing" or "grimdark" or "defeatist" it is.

You don't have to like it... but you should at the very least respect the content they give you.  That's all "artistic integrity" really is; to tell the story you want to tell.  To throw it back in their face and change the game content itself is the same degree of insult that fans claimed was unacceptable from Bioware.

Modifié par chemiclord, 10 mars 2013 - 04:27 .

[SDW]

chemiclord wrote...

Oh, HELL no.

Make no mistake, the ending to ME3 was a narrative DISASTER.  It was executed horribly, with massive logical gaps that they expected players to fill (which is an entirely separate argument I've had with fans that I'd rather not get into here).

Don't get me wrong.  It was received terribly, and fans did not like the message they were trying to send (which WAS fairly clear despite how horribly it was composed).  But it's Bioware's message to send, even if fans don't like it.  It's their right to do whatever they damn well want with the ending, no matter how "disappointing" or "grimdark" or "defeatist" it is.

You don't have to like it... but you should at the very least respect the content they give you.  That's all "artistic integrity" really is; to tell the story you want to tell.  To throw it back in their face and change the game content itself is the same degree of insult and that fans claimed was unacceptable from Bioware.

Yeah, I just reread your post and edited mine in the hope of changing the "you liked it" part before anybody read it ...
Seems I wasn't fast enough.

[NyxFTW]

Six pages in the last couple of hours over a mod. A mod that you don't have to download if you don't want it.

I should go.

Modifié par NyxFTW, 10 mars 2013 - 04:31 .

[Legion of 1337]

People keep deluding themselves. They seem to forget that it is ultimately the writer who decides what is and isn't in the story they wrote. You don't have to like the ending, but it is the ending Bioware wrote and the ending they intend. It's a stupid Gainax ending, but it's still what they wrote. Installing a mod to change the game's narrative so that it's what you want and then "headcanon" it and claim "that's how my Shepard's story ends" is just bull**** - your Shepard is restricted within the story the writers created. If they didn't write it it's not part of their story, so using a mod to get a different ending does not change the fact that it's not the actual ending; no matter how much you prefer it, MEHEM is NOT the ending. You simply don't want to deal with a piece of bad fiction, you'd rather make up your own ending and claim it to be the end of your story. Except it's not - really, your Shepard's story comes to a screeching halt once MEHEM kicks in, and while you watch that and are all giddy with yourself, Shepard is standing there waiting for you to pick red, blue or green.

I swear to ****ing god the fandom entitlement has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Seriously, actually trying to substitute a fan-fic ending in to replace the actual one? Never in a million......jesus....

[TheCrazyHobo]

Wait.....why is this even a problem? It's a mod. It is free and optional. You do not have to ever watch or play it.

So, I ask again, why is it a problem?

[Arisugawa]

I would be happier with MEHEM if the crux of it didn't rest on Joker flying the Normandy around the Battle of Earth for about five minutes while the Crucible conveniently waits for Shepard to be rescued. No matter how many times I watch it, it loses me within the first 30 seconds.

[RedBeardJim]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

People keep deluding themselves. They seem to forget that it is ultimately the writer who decides what is and isn't in the story they wrote. You don't have to like the ending, but it is the ending Bioware wrote and the ending they intend. It's a stupid Gainax ending, but it's still what they wrote. Installing a mod to change the game's narrative so that it's what you want and then "headcanon" it and claim "that's how my Shepard's story ends" is just bull**** - your Shepard is restricted within the story the writers created. If they didn't write it it's not part of their story, so using a mod to get a different ending does not change the fact that it's not the actual ending; no matter how much you prefer it, MEHEM is NOT the ending. You simply don't want to deal with a piece of bad fiction, you'd rather make up your own ending and claim it to be the end of your story. Except it's not - really, your Shepard's story comes to a screeching halt once MEHEM kicks in, and while you watch that and are all giddy with yourself, Shepard is standing there waiting for you to pick red, blue or green.

I swear to ****ing god the fandom entitlement has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Seriously, actually trying to substitute a fan-fic ending in to replace the actual one? Never in a million......jesus....

How is this "fandom entitlement"? No-one's demanding anything from Bioware with this mod -- quite the opposite, they realize they're not going to get what they want from Bioware's story, so they did it themselves.

If you don't want people screwing around with your story once you've put it out there, your only real option is to *not put it out there*. Once your story is in the consumer's hands, it's pretty much out of yours.

[Konfined]

It's a goddamn mod; you don't like it, don't fcking install it. Get off the high horse, the saddle doesn't suit you.

[ct700-5a]

1andonly wrote...

ct700-5a wrote...

1andonly wrote...

I fully agree that another version of the suicide mission would have been much better than any "choose between these endings" scenario, whatever those endings might be. The suicide mission is probably my favorite mission in the entire trilogy (I may be forgetting other missions here, but it's definitely in my top 3) due to how much all the factors can directly influence the outcome. But I was talking more in terms of "BW already decided that you'd have to actually choose between these 3 endings", I believe that the dialogue with the catalyst may have been there more as a solution to how they would present you with the choices than anything else.

In that case they could have given more exposition on the function of the Crucible via Hacket. He could have told Sheperd that the Crucible team has discovered that it has three functions- control, destroy, and synthesis. Then they could have discused the costs and benefits of each. Afterwards, the player could have received input from their crew and Anderson. This would have been much better than having your enemy offer and explain the choices and it may have been able to remove the organic-synthetic conflict. It would have simply been a decision on which would have been better for the galaxy. Having input fom people the player trusted would have made each a compelling option.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of Hackett, it really would have been a better option. Although he probably wouldn't have the means to understand and explain the consequences of your decisions, because how would he know? He also wouldn't be able to explain everything else to you (how the reapers work, the cycle, etc). But it's not like there are no plotholes in the canon version anyway (I still don't get why when you choose "destroy" you destroy all synthetics but when you choose "control" you only control the reapers. Either the crucible knows the difference between them or it doesn't!) I'm still not sure if you'd have the input of your squadmates, because, as much as I would like that, I think they wanted you to make the decision by yourself, without being excused by EDI if you chose destroy because she was willing to sacrifice, or your squad/LI telling you that you shouldn't sacrifice, or anything like that (I would like their opinion too, yes, but I think they wanted it to be YOUR decision, with your full responsibilities for the outcome).

I'd think that the scientist who worked on the crucible would have figured out what the Crucible could do. Since Hacket is incharge of the project, they'd likely report that information to him. By the third game, the only thing we don't know about the Reapers and the cycly was why the cycle happens. This wasn't really critical information and I'm not convince it needed to be in the game. I was much happier being allowed to speculate on their function, but I may just feel this way becasue I don't like the given explanation. Now with Leviathan the purpose of the Reapers is revealed before we meet the Catalyst. The explanation is also much better  than we get at the end. Since this DLC was more than likely planned prior to release, the Catalyst isn't need to explain the Reapers.

I don't beleive that having input from our companions would have taken away the decision being ours. We would still be alone when we made it. I'd have wnated the discussion to occur prior to Thessia, at this point the Crucible is pretty much completed. All this would ahve done is allowed us to recall what they would have wanted before we made the decision. We'd still feel like we were fully responsible for the outcome and that the decision was our. The only difference would be some added emotional weight

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

People keep deluding themselves. They seem to forget that it is ultimately the writer who decides what is and isn't in the story they wrote. You don't have to like the ending, but it is the ending Bioware wrote and the ending they intend. It's a stupid Gainax ending, but it's still what they wrote. Installing a mod to change the game's narrative so that it's what you want and then "headcanon" it and claim "that's how my Shepard's story ends" is just bull**** - your Shepard is restricted within the story the writers created. If they didn't write it it's not part of their story, so using a mod to get a different ending does not change the fact that it's not the actual ending; no matter how much you prefer it, MEHEM is NOT the ending. You simply don't want to deal with a piece of bad fiction, you'd rather make up your own ending and claim it to be the end of your story. Except it's not - really, your Shepard's story comes to a screeching halt once MEHEM kicks in, and while you watch that and are all giddy with yourself, Shepard is standing there waiting for you to pick red, blue or green.

I swear to ****ing god the fandom entitlement has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Seriously, actually trying to substitute a fan-fic ending in to replace the actual one? Never in a million......jesus....

Stop trolling. Stop acting like an entitled whiner. If you can't discuss the subject civilly why did you even bother clicking on the thread?

And no. Shepard picked red in the ending. Sorry.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 10 mars 2013 - 05:04 .

[hiraeth]

The ending was a narrative nightmare in more ways than I'll ever be able to count. Fans of the trilogy came together to properly close Shepard's story. I think their efforts are admirable, and their efforts have brought a lot of fans back to the point where they can replay ME3 without dreading every moment. Personally, I think BW should thank the MEHEM creators...they did what BW wouldn't do in the hope of honoring a story they came to love. If you like the ending, don't play the mod. But for the rest of us who simply cannot accept BW's ending, I'll gladly play through and support a more narratively coherent ending to Shepard's story.

Modifié par MassEffectFShep, 10 mars 2013 - 05:06 .

[Legion of 1337]

RedBeardJim wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

People keep deluding themselves. They seem to forget that it is ultimately the writer who decides what is and isn't in the story they wrote. You don't have to like the ending, but it is the ending Bioware wrote and the ending they intend. It's a stupid Gainax ending, but it's still what they wrote. Installing a mod to change the game's narrative so that it's what you want and then "headcanon" it and claim "that's how my Shepard's story ends" is just bull**** - your Shepard is restricted within the story the writers created. If they didn't write it it's not part of their story, so using a mod to get a different ending does not change the fact that it's not the actual ending; no matter how much you prefer it, MEHEM is NOT the ending. You simply don't want to deal with a piece of bad fiction, you'd rather make up your own ending and claim it to be the end of your story. Except it's not - really, your Shepard's story comes to a screeching halt once MEHEM kicks in, and while you watch that and are all giddy with yourself, Shepard is standing there waiting for you to pick red, blue or green.

I swear to ****ing god the fandom entitlement has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Seriously, actually trying to substitute a fan-fic ending in to replace the actual one? Never in a million......jesus....

How is this "fandom entitlement"? No-one's demanding anything from Bioware with this mod -- quite the opposite, they realize they're not going to get what they want from Bioware's story, so they did it themselves.

If you don't want people screwing around with your story once you've put it out there, your only real option is to *not put it out there*. Once your story is in the consumer's hands, it's pretty much out of yours.

Now I'm not deeply entrenched in too many die-hard fanbases so maybe I'm wrong, but this is the only instance I can think of where people actively try to ignore or modify the ending of the narrative and pretend it's something different from what it is or make up their own version of it.

It is literally akin to ripping the last chapter out of a book and stapling in your own fanfic ending. It shows almost an obsessive and stupid attachment to an idealistic "perfect" vision of whatever narrative you're reading, such that when the quality of the narrative dropsfrom your high standards (which, admittedly, Bioware set themselves) you can't cope or deal with it and insist on demanding changes, ignoring the content's existence or makign up your own to substitute so that you still feel fullfilled by the fiction. It's flat out delusion. I can understand why people are attached to it, hell I'm as close to being a rabid fanboy as you can be while still remaining rational/openminded/objective/etc; but the inability of some people to accept and deal with the fiction's imperfections shows some sort of strange refusal to accept reality (the reality of, ironically, an unreal story) and that they have decided the narrative partially belongs to them, the fans, and that it should please them, and if it doesn't, we'll take it into our own hands and "fix" it the way we want it.

If this sounds like a better-founded and explained version of the "whiny entitled fans" argument the game critics used during the ending uproar, that's because it is, but there's one key difference:

The critics almost seemed to be praising the ending, and did not separate legitimate criticism of the writing from feelings of fan entitlement. This was a mistake because it made it look like the critics were either in EA's pocket (which IGN probably was, let's be honest - how can you give credit to a site that gave MW3 9/10?) or stuck up pricks who thought everyone else were idiots who just couldn't comprehend the intellectual awesomeness of the whole thing. 

Throughout the whole ending thing, I picked the endings to pieces from a writing standpoint, but not once did I think those legions of whining fanboys, which a lot of you were and still are, were at all entitled to dictate how Bioware should write their story. If Bioware decided to take their input, that's fine, but they were not entitled to anything and the people who kept going on about how Bioware hated the fans or betrayed them etc etc sounded like they thought they should have some kind of say in how the plot was written, which they don't.

Sorry, that last bit was a bit of a tangent but, yeah, you get my point.

[NyxFTW]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

People keep deluding themselves. They seem to forget that it is ultimately the writer who decides what is and isn't in the story they wrote. You don't have to like the ending, but it is the ending Bioware wrote and the ending they intend. It's a stupid Gainax ending, but it's still what they wrote. Installing a mod to change the game's narrative so that it's what you want and then "headcanon" it and claim "that's how my Shepard's story ends" is just bull**** - your Shepard is restricted within the story the writers created. If they didn't write it it's not part of their story, so using a mod to get a different ending does not change the fact that it's not the actual ending; no matter how much you prefer it, MEHEM is NOT the ending. You simply don't want to deal with a piece of bad fiction, you'd rather make up your own ending and claim it to be the end of your story. Except it's not - really, your Shepard's story comes to a screeching halt once MEHEM kicks in, and while you watch that and are all giddy with yourself, Shepard is standing there waiting for you to pick red, blue or green.

I swear to ****ing god the fandom entitlement has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Seriously, actually trying to substitute a fan-fic ending in to replace the actual one? Never in a million......jesus....

What part of 'don't like it, don't install it' didn't you understand?

I'm never going to use this mod because I appreciate canon to an extent, but I'm not going to act all high and mighty and tell people that using a different ending mod is wrong and they shouldn't download it. And you shouldn't call them out on it either. You have your own Shepard, your own romances, your own sacrifices, your own ending. Immerse in it until you can't do it anymore. But don't you wag your finger at anyone else's stories (modded or not) and tell them they're wrong.

[RedBeardJim]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

RedBeardJim wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

People keep deluding themselves. They seem to forget that it is ultimately the writer who decides what is and isn't in the story they wrote. You don't have to like the ending, but it is the ending Bioware wrote and the ending they intend. It's a stupid Gainax ending, but it's still what they wrote. Installing a mod to change the game's narrative so that it's what you want and then "headcanon" it and claim "that's how my Shepard's story ends" is just bull**** - your Shepard is restricted within the story the writers created. If they didn't write it it's not part of their story, so using a mod to get a different ending does not change the fact that it's not the actual ending; no matter how much you prefer it, MEHEM is NOT the ending. You simply don't want to deal with a piece of bad fiction, you'd rather make up your own ending and claim it to be the end of your story. Except it's not - really, your Shepard's story comes to a screeching halt once MEHEM kicks in, and while you watch that and are all giddy with yourself, Shepard is standing there waiting for you to pick red, blue or green.

I swear to ****ing god the fandom entitlement has gotten ridiculously out of hand. Seriously, actually trying to substitute a fan-fic ending in to replace the actual one? Never in a million......jesus....

How is this "fandom entitlement"? No-one's demanding anything from Bioware with this mod -- quite the opposite, they realize they're not going to get what they want from Bioware's story, so they did it themselves.

If you don't want people screwing around with your story once you've put it out there, your only real option is to *not put it out there*. Once your story is in the consumer's hands, it's pretty much out of yours.

Now I'm not deeply entrenched in too many die-hard fanbases so maybe I'm wrong, but this is the only instance I can think of where people actively try to ignore or modify the ending of the narrative and pretend it's something different from what it is or make up their own version of it.

It is literally akin to ripping the last chapter out of a book and stapling in your own fanfic ending. It shows almost an obsessive and stupid attachment to an idealistic "perfect" vision of whatever narrative you're reading, such that when the quality of the narrative dropsfrom your high standards (which, admittedly, Bioware set themselves) you can't cope or deal with it and insist on demanding changes, ignoring the content's existence or makign up your own to substitute so that you still feel fullfilled by the fiction. It's flat out delusion. I can understand why people are attached to it, hell I'm as close to being a rabid fanboy as you can be while still remaining rational/openminded/objective/etc; but the inability of some people to accept and deal with the fiction's imperfections shows some sort of strange refusal to accept reality (the reality of, ironically, an unreal story) and that they have decided the narrative partially belongs to them, the fans, and that it should please them, and if it doesn't, we'll take it into our own hands and "fix" it the way we want it.

I guess this is just a fundamental disconnect between us, then, because yeah, people do that. People have been doing that for as long as there have been stories. People write fanfics that don't acknowledge the fact that a particular character got killed in season 3, or that Person A never actually hooked up with Person B, or whatever. Headcanons. AUs. "For Want Of A Nail" stories. And sometimes, yeah, "This sucked, I'm gonna fix it" stories. That's the beauty of stories -- they're *not* reality, you can rewrite them if you want. The only difference nowadays is that there are tools to let people do this collaboratively, both in terms of the actual efforts and in terms of sharing the fruits of those efforts, on a scale that was never possible before.

Throughout the whole ending thing, I picked the endings to pieces from a writing standpoint, but not once did I think those legions of whining fanboys, which a lot of you were and still are, were at all entitled to dictate how Bioware should write their story. If Bioware decided to take their input, that's fine, but they were not entitled to anything and the people who kept going on about how Bioware hated the fans or betrayed them etc etc sounded like they thought they should have some kind of say in how the plot was written, which they don't.

Sorry, that last bit was a bit of a tangent but, yeah, you get my point.

They are exactly as entitled to dictate how Bioware should write their story as any other consumer of a commercial entertainment product is -- which is to say, they can *try*, and Bioware can decide whether or not to care. They tried. Bioware decided not to care. Some folks have decided to make for themselves what Bioware wouldn't.

What I don't understand is why that offends *you* so much.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Bill Casey wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

It IS a shame, because YES, fans are what make professional writers possible.  But the simple fact is that no matter how invested fans think they are.  No matter how much time and money fans think they have poured into a story... the creators of that story have poured a hundredfold more.

When a Naruto fan kills himself because his favorite character died, he has invested himself more than the creator...
When you're fourteen years old and you commit suicide over a work, you've given up more time than the creators ever could...

For ill, but still...

Well that was a poor example.. Not sure any ME fans would like to associate themselves with that level of fandom.

[MECavScout01]

@ Legion of 1337.

I don't care what BW's story is. It's not my story.

They used to tell me that I was the writer, the master of my own story. Then they take that away to showcase their crap.

It's their crap, not mine. My Shepard' story didn't end the way BW wanted it too. Casey and SuperMac don't like it, they can mess with their own ending.

In my ending, the final theme isn't even about organics vs synthetics. It's about selflessness vs selfishness, friendship, and galactic unity.

The Reapers, selfishly believing in their own perfection believe the universe must be cleansed of all beings who do not fit their perfect vision of order.

Shepard and his crew fight selflessly against that, to not have to have fear and destruction imposed on them and the galaxy.

And Shepard wins. He destroys the Reapers with their own 'tool' of perfection, and he returns and reunites with Miranda, his crew, and his surviving team.

And with that, I made a far better story than Casey or SuperMac is willing to tell.

[Taboo]

I don't want MEHEM. I like it the way it is now. Ugly and obtuse. But mostly stupidly obtuse.