282 réponses à ce sujet

[MECavScout01]

scyphozoa wrote...

lol

Before you changed your post, I was going to say this:

Maybe I like the aspects of their universe. The possibilities. The implications. The story.

Maybe I want to add my own touch, my own color to the story. Who am I hurting if it's for myself, or people who want to know what I think of it. I'm not claiming to be the creator of the universe, nor am I trying to make money off of it.

I'm telling my version of the story, one that I like, one that suits me and my Shepard, one that I can feel accomplished with.

Why is that a bad thing?

[3DandBeyond]

HJF4 wrote...

Well, from THIS particular author's opinion... yeah, I find it rather insulting and a slap to the face (funny how fans tend to have no problem with it when they're on the giving end).

Now with that said, that's just my opinion on the matter, because yeah... fans are pretty much going to do what they want, especially if they don't like what you provided. As much as I really don't like it... it's something I have to deal with.

I probably SHOULD clarify from earlier that I don't have any problems with speculative or "additional" fanfiction, stuff that adds to the stories I write. Fanfiction that outright CHANGES my content? Yeah... that's not cool to me.

You aren't every author.

I mod. I might stop if the writers said they found it offensive, but they have not and the official Bioware word on mods is that they're fine if singleplayer.

Yes, exactly.  The fan videos on youtube have been there for games for as long as youtube has been there.  And companies love them because they sell games.  If today they banned all walkthroughs and fan creations on youtube, where people make their own music videos of games they love or where they show the things they like about the games, companies would suffer.  It's free advertising.  And the ability to mod games, sells games.  I do think if MEHEM was possible for consoles, Bioware would see a sales spurt-actual new interest in the game.  And I know of people that bought the PC version just to mod it.  And then they bought DLC too.  So, I'm sure Bioware really hates it.

[Dr. Megaverse]

How did you fell?

I really feel like it's a good idea. I suppose you can fall anyway you'd like though...

Modifié par Dr. Megaverse, 10 mars 2013 - 06:37 .

[JaegerBane]

Jadebaby wrote...
Believe what you want, Sheps a space monster, and honestly. They should have killed Shepard in the Destroy ending like they originally planned. Because allowing him/her to survive, just says to people "hey, genocide is okay."

Realistically, trying to paint the Destroy ending as a genocide is biased to say the least. Who do you mean genocide of? If its the geth, then yeah, its a massive loss... but genocide implies an intent to destroy an entire people, whereas the loss of the Geth in destroy is more a side-effect of the lack of direction of the crucible. Its basically the same choice you make back on virmire, only this time, an entire species is sacrificed for the greater good. Shepard didn't 'murder' his squadmate back on Virmire, and he doesn't 'commit genocide' here.

If you're talking about the Reapers, then... well, I hate terrible jokes but the Reap what the sow.

And purely logistical reasons? Oh yea because it had NOTHING to do with the burn, blunt force and gunshot traumas s/he underwent. No, if anything that would help her/him survive right?

Hey, I'm not the one claiming a scene with a man breathing is supposed to be an indication that he's dead.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 10 mars 2013 - 06:47 .

[3DandBeyond]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I'm just trying to make sure we don't fall into the self-indulgant trap that the Star Wars fanboys did where they basically try to deny that the prequels exist or are even part of Star Wars, because they hate them so much they don't want to acknowledge their existence.

Like I said, it's kind of already started with me having to remind people MEHEM is not the ending.

Yes, because the worst thing that could happen is that ME has the number of fans that Star Wars has.  I couldn't give a rat's behind about all that.  And so what if someone is in any sort of denial-I bet all MEHEM haters just lose sleep over the idea that someone just modded their game.  OH NOES, the official ending is now MEHEM. 

You are imagining something that is not true.  When someone says this is now ME3's ending-they know it's not Bioware's ending.  It is the ending FOR THEM.  You reminding them of anything is not telling them what they don't know-they know that.  It's a mod and people are smart enough to know what that is.  For them it is so the ending and you telling them it isn't, doesn't change that.  Move on.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

The existence of MEHEM just says people don't like the ending and want a different one. It's a mod, it was not made by the creators of the game, therefore it's not the ending. You can create whatever sort of story you want for yourself, but if Bioware didn't make it, it's not technically part of Mass Effect (as the creators of Mass Effect, I think they're allowed to dictate what is and isn't in their story).

Keep in mind, I don't like the ending either. I just laugh at it and say "Try again".

Ok this is just silly.  Try again-with what?  This Mass Effect is done-they are not going to "try again".

And Bioware hasn't told the people who made MEHEM to stop-so why should you?

Legion, if you're going to continue here consider it this way. I write a song. I publish a song. Other people play the song. They don't play the song exactly as I wrote the song. The improvise on the song.

Consider MEHEM an improvisation on the ending. It is for all practical purposes the High EMS Destroy ending minus the genocide, and putting in view your reunion which is at present played in the players head. Big deal. Who gives a damn? I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

And yes you can even go back to Mozart if you want. Beethoven wrote some cadenzas to Mozart piano concerti. So did Brahms. People used to improvise compositions by Johann Sebastian Bach.

The Elder Scrolls games give you a Construction Kit if you have a PC so you can mod the game to your heart's content. Bioware used to do this as well, but this engine is far more difficult to mod. Unfortunately you can't use this stuff on the consoles.

So the world isn't going to come to an end. It is okay. We all know about the original endings. I'd be using my game disks for drink coasters if it weren't for MEHEM. Just leave us alone. No pixels were hurt or killed in this post.

[Legion of 1337]

Wait wait wait, message to self: what the **** am I doing? Why am I arguing about this? Why do I care? What are you doing?

I have no idea why I even started this. Forget I said anything.

[Big Bad]

MECavScout01 wrote...

Also, for everyone's reading pleasure: http://awtr.wikidot....s-is-not-a-pipe

Holy ****.  That author has put into words what I have felt but couldn't precisely express.  Thanks a bunch for linking to this! 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

HJF4 wrote...

Well, from THIS particular author's opinion... yeah, I find it rather insulting and a slap to the face (funny how fans tend to have no problem with it when they're on the giving end).

Now with that said, that's just my opinion on the matter, because yeah... fans are pretty much going to do what they want, especially if they don't like what you provided. As much as I really don't like it... it's something I have to deal with.

I probably SHOULD clarify from earlier that I don't have any problems with speculative or "additional" fanfiction, stuff that adds to the stories I write. Fanfiction that outright CHANGES my content? Yeah... that's not cool to me.

You aren't every author.

I mod. I might stop if the writers said they found it offensive, but they have not and the official Bioware word on mods is that they're fine if singleplayer.

Yes, exactly.  The fan videos on youtube have been there for games for as long as youtube has been there.  And companies love them because they sell games.  If today they banned all walkthroughs and fan creations on youtube, where people make their own music videos of games they love or where they show the things they like about the games, companies would suffer.  It's free advertising.  And the ability to mod games, sells games.  I do think if MEHEM was possible for consoles, Bioware would see a sales spurt-actual new interest in the game.  And I know of people that bought the PC version just to mod it.  And then they bought DLC too.  So, I'm sure Bioware really hates it.

Yeah, I'm sure Bioware really hates the existence of MEHEM. REALLY hates it. <_< How much do they hate it? Well let's see. I originally played the series on the console and I liked ME and ME2, but MEHEM works well for my brain so I bought the series for the PC, and the DLC for the PC all because of MEHEM so I can tell Bioware really really hates its existence.

They made money off the thing!

[New Display Name]

Yea, I can attest that mods made me more likely to buy DLC.

[Legion of 1337]

 No honestly, I know this is going to seem like a really weird 180 from the guy who was just minutes ago dissing MEHEM but I honestly can't quite tell what my point was or even why I posted here in the first place. I should have just said:
"I don't agree with the idea of using mods to replace parts of the narrative because I feel it denies the reality of the story"
and left it as a stated opinion.
Dafuq was I doing:blink:?

[Dubozz]

MEHEM removes retarded starbrat. The reason i use it.

Modifié par Dubozz, 10 mars 2013 - 07:18 .

[MegaSovereign]

MEHEM is no less of a headcanon than your description of Destroy, OP. Synthetics are dead. EDI's nameplate would not be put up there otherwise.

With that said, I don't like the MEHEM. The recycling of cutscenes and dialogue breaks the immersion for me, and I don't dig the Suicide Mission track being reused just for the sake of it. "Anderson's" memorial also seems out of place as it seems to imply that he was a pivotal character, something I disagree with. Above all, one of the biggest problems of the narrative happens to be how vaguely defined the Crucible is. The MEHEM reinforces the fact that the Crucible is a giant "I win" button, even more so than Bioware's endings. So for me, MEHEM doesn't really fix anything.

EDIT:

Keep in mind that I had a bigger problem with Priority Earth as a whole than I did with the last 10 minutes of the game. IIRC MEHEM  doesn't actually add anything to the segment until Harbinger arrives.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 10 mars 2013 - 07:41 .

[TiaraBlade]

Given the outcry, I'd say that ALOT of people disagree with the OP.

I wanted to have little blue babies and live happily ever after, thank you very much. Others wanted to build a house with Tali, etc... people put down a happy ending for reasons that elude me or condescend that because the trilogy revolves around a war that Shepherd surviving and being happy isn't "realistic" or the like.

[shodiswe]

Destroy destroys all synthetics, not just those with mobile platforms. It a very efficient form of ethnic cleansing. So, yes you do kill of your enemies (the reapers) and everyone else who happens to share a few of the reapers characteristics.

It's like disliking a swindling banker and deciding that all who shares his etnicity has to die... Like for example Jews. 

There is a difference between synthetics in general and extremist groups like the Reapers or the Heretics. But Destroyers seem to think it's worth a few billion innocents to kill of the undesirables.

And ofcourse, you can shoot a person then make a clone of that person, it actualy works. Doesn't make it right though.
If I shoot you and made a clone that looked like you, would that make things right?

Modifié par shodiswe, 10 mars 2013 - 09:13 .

[Joy Sauce]

Personally my one big reason for playing with MEHEM - no starbrat.

Even if Shepard stayed dead, not having to look at or listen to that thing again makes it so worthwhile. Now if only there were a mod that would let me skip the dream sequences...

[Dieb]

You know, this started as a regular discussion born out of plain curiosity. Until, not even one page in, someone else throws in a depreciative word like "Disney" and here we go again.

I don't speak for others, but it is really important to mind the difference between disucssing and picking a fight.

[SiriusXI]

AlphaDormante wrote...

EDI and the geth being alive and Shepard being reunited with his/her crew is nice about MEHEM, sure.

But I used it mainly to get rid of Starchild. Get that thing out of my face and I'm perfectly happy with the EC Destroy ending.

This! MEHEM is not great, because it allows Shep to be alive, but because the whole Story and Lore of Mass Effect is not raped by Starchild.

[Dr_Extrem]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

But the thing is, it IS their story because they wrote it, they just made it more fluid and variable than a book would be.

I guess I hate the idea of changing the ending to fit what I want because I respect creative works for what they are, and I judge them and enjoy them on the basis of what they were created as. Feedback/criticism is fine, but claiming it as "yours" is basically telling whoever created it "It's not about what you wanted, it's about what we wanted". If I'm a writer, I'd be a bit peeved if everyone took whatever I wrote and chopped it up and made it a different story and pretended that was what it "should" have been because they didn't like what I came up with. Don't like it? Then don't like it. But the writer dictates was is and is not in the story because it is his creation.

If you were an author (a published writer), you might well not be so concerned if it sold books.  But it's for the creator to complain and really not for others who have no idea how that creator of that individual work feels.

Games have been modded for as long as they've existed and so now you have a problem.  In fact, a lot of games used to include modding tools-some still do because devs wanted their fans to add onto and share things that worked for them.  It was a tool used to gain fans.  It was one of the initial draws to computer gaming.

And modding a game doesn't say the story is yours at all-it is like fan fiction and there have been alternate endings and alternatives to other story's plots.  For instance, a screen writer or novelist writes a book-the book becomes a movie, that is nothing like the book.  Once the movie is done the producers of the movie might release a Director's (not a writer's) Cut.  And again, fans of books and movies have also caused endings or parts of the material to be changed.  This is not that different.  Artists have taken photographers' photos and chopped them up to make collages, saying that for them the photos work better in that form.  And so on. 

And the artistic integrity comments are very funny.  Consider that Bioware took a whole lot of other IPs and borrowed heavily from them (chopped them up) to create large parts of ME in the first place.  The flotilla - Battlestar Gallactica.  The Reapers - Lovecraft.  The endings - Deus ex, Babylon 5, and more.  There are a lot of examples of this in the game. 

The biggest problem comes when someone tries to sell a work and claims it's their own.  No one has done that here.

I just find it sad that people seem to need to basically insert their own fanfic ending into a piece of fiction to not hate it. Why can't everyone take my adivce and just laugh at it for being stupid?

People love this so much that in threads where they ask "Which is your favourite ending?", people say "MEHEM" and I have to remind them "That's not the ending."

because it is not funny.

i get forced to choose between 3 different crimes or to look away .. (look at my profile nad you might get a feeling why i doint like the taste of it)

if you lie to be unhappy with this trainwreck odf an ending, it yopur choice but dont play teacher here. mehem users are fully aware of the fact, that this is not an official ending - but we dont like the original ones.

i use this mod as a form of protest. 


on the art argument:

art is not static. it is the arts own intent to inspire new artists. this happens every day.

[Mastone]

Dubozz wrote...

MEHEM removes retarded starbrat. The reason i use it.

this.............................. and lol can I ask you if you tried shooting the kid after the conversation you had with it. I tried Biotics, difefrent guns, hell i even considered doing a replay using a character who could equip grenades just to tryit out on little annoying Casper

[Mastone]

SiriusXI wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...

EDI and the geth being alive and Shepard being reunited with his/her crew is nice about MEHEM, sure.

But I used it mainly to get rid of Starchild. Get that thing out of my face and I'm perfectly happy with the EC Destroy ending.

This! MEHEM is not great, because it allows Shep to be alive, but because the whole Story and Lore of Mass Effect is not raped by Starchild.

right on the money

[ZLurps]

I haven't tried MEHEM, and fixing things like Priority:Earth are beyond modding community, but I have watched youtube videos of MEHEM and I applaud to Mr. Fob and everyone working with it.

There is this aspect in things, when you get something done someone out there will be butthurt because it reminds him/her about how all said person can't do but talk crap. Someone will be jealous just because they feel something is somehow stealing supposed attention they were getting if X wouldn't exists... It's all pretty telling about certain aspects of people.

The thing is not to victimise yourself, it's one of the rules of entertainment industry, everything you create will be taken out of context, twisted to something unrecognisable and you will never understand all the ways people interpret it. The trick is to deal with it without becoming disillusioned.
For commercial project there is a difference between appearing butthurt (for economical reasons for example) and actually being butthurt and the latter case, at least in the past used to be pretty good indication if person really have what it takes to work in the industry, or in which role because as you go there comes other things you need to deal with.

Mod project is of course a bit different kind of journey, but anyway, Mr. Fob and MEHEM team appears to have "every nanide in their Reaper" so to say and I wish them luck and fun and entertaining journey. :-)

[NyxFTW]

Baelrahn wrote...

You know, this started as a regular discussion born out of plain curiosity. Until, not even one page in, someone else throws in a depreciative word like "Disney" and here we go again.

I don't speak for others, but it is really important to mind the difference between disucssing and picking a fight.

I honestly don't get why a lot of people are against 'happy endings'. There's a trope called 'Earn Your Happy Ending', where the protagonist has taken great strides and sacrifice that they deserve some kind of blessing in the end. It's also called 'catharsis' and when you deny the audience a moment of relief, backlash happens.

Maybe people are just cynical these days, I dunno. People think depressing endings are 'edgy' and 'realistic' for some reason. Hense the dismissive 'Disney Ending' schtick.