82 réponses à ce sujet

[IPerrin]

There is a difference between starting off with an outside force such as a dalish tribe and leading a successful rebellion from the alienage.. I guess that makes contacting outside help the key to it. I think an uprising such as the OP suggests can't happen. Even contacting outsiders to get weapons and help is a stretch. During the story the alienage is on lockdown for a while...



I would try to establish some type of communication with one or more dalish clans, and I would learn 4 ranks of stealth and lockpicking and sneak around ferelden assasinating nobles and planting evidence that other nobles might be responsible for the killing.

[Gimmemocha]

Yeah, 'cause it worked out great for the elves in Denerim when they rebelled...

[internaty inmortelaty]

InvaderErl wrote...

If the Elves couldn't stop the Humans when they had Arlathan or the Dales why would they be able to stop them now?

just because it fail the first time doesnt mean if fail's a second time people including elven and wierd but true dwarf's learn from there mistake's.

but i keep pushing my notion THAT YOU ARE ALL CLAIMING VICTORY WITHOUT BATTLE IT WONT WORK THAT WAY WITHOUT TATIC'S A PLAN INFORMATION ITS LIKE WALKING AROUND WITH A BIG BULLEYE OF YOUR BACK

the roman beat the greet because they knew how to counter there tatic the allies beat the axis because they know how to counter there plan's if either of those say we win merly because we say so they would be dead by now.

[internaty inmortelaty]

IPerrin wrote...

There is a difference between starting off with an outside force such as a dalish tribe and leading a successful rebellion from the alienage.. I guess that makes contacting outside help the key to it. I think an uprising such as the OP suggests can't happen. Even contacting outsiders to get weapons and help is a stretch. During the story the alienage is on lockdown for a while...

I would try to establish some type of communication with one or more dalish clans, and I would learn 4 ranks of stealth and lockpicking and sneak around ferelden assasinating nobles and planting evidence that other nobles might be responsible for the killing.

smart plan.

[Costin_Razvan]

If you go to war expecting to lose, then you have no hope of victory.



Phase 1: At the gathering of the Dalish clans, present the plan to conquer Val Royeaux, send emissaries to the Qunari with your plan, so you might enlist the aid of their fleet.



Phase 2: Slowly build up your forces around the city, hidding in the woods or fields as not to be seen. Qunari ships slowly gather close to the city and you sneak weapons into the alienage, training the elves there to fight. If anyone even suspects of your plan, they die, quietly and with no body to be found, ever



Phase 3: Hire the most fanatic blood mage you find, and make them assasnite the Divine in a ceremony. Two hours after the elder lady is killed the qunari strike with their fleet while the Dalish launch an all out attack from outside the city. The elves in the alienage wait for some guards to leave their posts then strike hard

Phase 4: Kill every human in the city, no human, dwarf and even elf who doesn't side with the rebelion left alive.

Phase 5: Retreat into the wild, burning the city to the ground and leaving no mark of what happened there for the Orlesians to find.

Phase 6: rise and repeat with the other countries.

[internaty inmortelaty]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

If you go to war expecting to lose, then you have no hope of victory.

Phase 1: At the gathering of the Dalish clans, present the plan to conquer Val Royeaux, send emissaries to the Qunari with your plan, so you might enlist the aid of their fleet.

Phase 2: Slowly build up your forces around the city, hidding in the woods or fields as not to be seen. Qunari ships slowly gather close to the city and you sneak weapons into the alienage, training the elves there to fight. If anyone even suspects of your plan, they die, quietly and with no body to be found, ever

Phase 3: Hire the most fanatic blood mage you find, and make them assasnite the Divine in a ceremony. Two hours after the elder lady is killed the qunari strike with their fleet while the Dalish launch an all out attack from outside the city. The elves in the alienage wait for some guards to leave their posts then strike hard
Phase 4: Kill every human in the city, no human, dwarf and even elf who doesn't side with the rebelion left alive.
Phase 5: Retreat into the wild, burning the city to the ground and leaving no mark of what happened there for the Orlesians to find.
Phase 6: rise and repeat with the other countries.

love that plan:D

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Qunari will not attack Orlais, they are too busy fighting Tevinter. And Orlais is a superpower, it can't be delt with that easily. Not when it can declare an exalted march and gather allies in a heartbeat.



If the Elves had any chance of rebellion, it was during the Blight. Of course they didn't do anything.

The nation most likely to fall easily is Tevinter. It is decaying and is overflowed with elven slaves. All they need is one charismatic leader (like Shartan) and they could rebel. Which won't likely happen.



So the best thing that the elves can do in the short future is simply STFU.

[InvaderErl]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...


just because it fail the first time doesnt mean if fail's a second time people including elven and wierd but true dwarf's learn from there mistake's.

the roman beat the greet because they knew how to counter there tatic the allies beat the axis because they know how to counter there plan's if either of those say we win merly because we say so they would be dead by now.

Wouldn't this be the THIRD time? The Tevinter overran the Arlathan elves iirc and then the Chantry led a march against the Dales.

I believe in both cases the Elves were actually a consolidated force, by the time of the game the Elves are either scattered and oppressed, they are no longer united by a single creed be it national or cultural.

So the chances of a widespread organized resistance between the Dalish their City counterparts, at least for the moment is fairly low I'd wager.

And as for that last bit, you need to think about the relative strength of the Allies and the Romans against their enemies. The Allies essentially overwhelmed the Axis through sheer industrial/manpower.

[Creature 1]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

a argue in the human threat elf's like animal threat made me wander.

if the elven people would rebel agains there human overlords who would win?

what i like you to do is writte a battleplan of what you would do if you had to lead either the elven people or human's in a war for elven freedom or supression..

i would get my most loyalist allies to become lover's of the human leader's.
i would hire people to infeltrade the human armies i would bride the loyalty of many soldiers and gaurd i would gather allies with the dwarf's and circle of magi and naturaly silence anyone who posses a threat to my preparations.
i would store armor and weapons all across the world train everyone in the art of warfare in secret again silence anyone who would discover.
then when where ready after years of preparing i would order all my lover agents to assasinate the human leader's at the same time posion all troops not loyal to me i would quikly arm all troops and order a all out slaughter of all human man wemon and childeren. i would wage a hit and run war for years killing as many humans as possebol.
after enought blood has bin shed i send a messege to the remaining human leader's offering a mutal peace with full regoneccions for a elven nation or threaten with a war of exstincion where only human or elvenkind would survive.

what would you do?

I would invent cold fusion.  Seriously, your plan is not really a plan.  Way too little detail.  Have any idea how many elves are actually in Ferelden?  How many human warriors?  How many of your elves are in good enough condition to be trained for battle?  How will they feed their families when they have to leave their jobs in order to train for war?  How do you plan to ally with the mages when they are in a position that is not completely favorable, but many are comfortable with, and others think is a good idea?  Why would the dwarves want to ally with you against the humans?  The humans are much more economically important to them than the elves, you have nothing to offer them. 

Personally if I were a human leader if you were going all out killing every human man, woman, and child you ran across, I would bring genocide against the Ferelden elves and not stop until every one was put to the sword. 

[internaty inmortelaty]

A:the question was what if they would rebel not if they rebel

B:like knight of phoenix sayed its only gonne happen if there is a carsimatic figheur but i thought that was common knowledge...

C:i still dont hear any plan on how to crush the elven uprising i hear plenty of plans on how the elf's would win but i hear nobody tell about a plan to prevent or crush a uprising.

[IPerrin]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

A:the question was what if they would rebel not if they rebel
B:like knight of phoenix sayed its only gonne happen if there is a carsimatic figheur but i thought that was common knowledge...
C:i still dont hear any plan on how to crush the elven uprising i hear plenty of plans on how the elf's would win but i hear nobody tell about a plan to prevent or crush a uprising.

   you didnt ask for one.  are you asking for one now?

[Herr Uhl]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...
C:i still dont hear any plan on how to crush the elven uprising i hear plenty of plans on how the elf's would win but i hear nobody tell about a plan to prevent or crush a uprising.

Humans with pointy sticks impaling the elves?

They have the resources, the manpower, the weapons and they have defenses other than trees.

[KnightofPhoenix]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

A:the question was what if they would rebel not if they rebel
B:like knight of phoenix sayed its only gonne happen if there is a carsimatic figheur but i thought that was common knowledge...
C:i still dont hear any plan on how to crush the elven uprising i hear plenty of plans on how the elf's would win but i hear nobody tell about a plan to prevent or crush a uprising.

SImple. Assassinate the would be charismatic leader. Declare an exalted march if the situation escallated, which won't happen. Slaughter a bunch of them as example, while decorating all the alienages with elven heads on pikes. Kill annoying people like Shanni. If they continue to rebel, blockade them and let them starve to death. Which is easy seeing that the alienage is situated right in the center of the city. Of course tighten security at the ports.
Collaborators would be sold into slavery. And tada, once again the elves are humiliated and put in their place.

Elves are too weak they cannot acquire real allies. Maybe the Qunari would provide indirect aid, but they certainly would not go into full scale war for the sake of some weaklings.

[Behindyounow]

^ I second the 'kill annoying people like Shanni' motion. But only enslave the collaborators? Should enslave them all.



I almost want the Elves to rebel now.

[internaty inmortelaty]

Creature 1 wrote...

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

a argue in the human threat elf's like animal threat made me wander.

if the elven people would rebel agains there human overlords who would win?

what i like you to do is writte a battleplan of what you would do if you had to lead either the elven people or human's in a war for elven freedom or supression..

i would get my most loyalist allies to become lover's of the human leader's.
i would hire people to infeltrade the human armies i would bride the loyalty of many soldiers and gaurd i would gather allies with the dwarf's and circle of magi and naturaly silence anyone who posses a threat to my preparations.
i would store armor and weapons all across the world train everyone in the art of warfare in secret again silence anyone who would discover.
then when where ready after years of preparing i would order all my lover agents to assasinate the human leader's at the same time posion all troops not loyal to me i would quikly arm all troops and order a all out slaughter of all human man wemon and childeren. i would wage a hit and run war for years killing as many humans as possebol.
after enought blood has bin shed i send a messege to the remaining human leader's offering a mutal peace with full regoneccions for a elven nation or threaten with a war of exstincion where only human or elvenkind would survive.

what would you do?

I would invent cold fusion.  Seriously, your plan is not really a plan.  Way too little detail.  Have any idea how many elves are actually in Ferelden?  How many human warriors?  How many of your elves are in good enough condition to be trained for battle?  How will they feed their families when they have to leave their jobs in order to train for war?  How do you plan to ally with the mages when they are in a position that is not completely favorable, but many are comfortable with, and others think is a good idea?  Why would the dwarves want to ally with you against the humans?  The humans are much more economically important to them than the elves, you have nothing to offer them. 

Personally if I were a human leader if you were going all out killing every human man, woman, and child you ran across, I would bring genocide against the Ferelden elves and not stop until every one was put to the sword. 

the circle of magi i would offer independes witch is someting many crave for.
the dwarves i would covince that its only a mather of time befor they do to them what they did to us.
the elf's who got trained do so in there free time so they wont draw attation of the gaurds.
like i said befor i would also hire HUMAN infeltraitors and bribe human gaurds who ofcourse would be threated as equil. as i said i would poison most of the army so that even if they outnumber us many die at the first day.
as i said most of the leader's of the human's will die at there lovers hand leaving the humans leaderless for the most part giving us free reign for a few days atleast.
as for the eating problem thanks for reminding me all it take is some thieves to steal money for me from the humans and use corrupt mercant and dalis suppliers to smuggle food inside the city.

the only 2 problems i can see with my plan is if i am discovered to early for a attack there will be public exicusions and a price on my head.
2 people dont wanne rebel.
 p.s if you where a human leader you would be dead.

[internaty inmortelaty]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

A:the question was what if they would rebel not if they rebel
B:like knight of phoenix sayed its only gonne happen if there is a carsimatic figheur but i thought that was common knowledge...
C:i still dont hear any plan on how to crush the elven uprising i hear plenty of plans on how the elf's would win but i hear nobody tell about a plan to prevent or crush a uprising.

SImple. Assassinate the would be charismatic leader. Declare an exalted march if the situation escallated, which won't happen. Slaughter a bunch of them as example, while decorating all the alienages with elven heads on pikes. Kill annoying people like Shanni. If they continue to rebel, blockade them and let them starve to death. Which is easy seeing that the alienage is situated right in the center of the city. Of course tighten security at the ports.
Collaborators would be sold into slavery. And tada, once again the elves are humiliated and put in their place.

Elves are too weak they cannot acquire real allies. Maybe the Qunari would provide indirect aid, but they certainly would not go into full scale war for the sake of some weaklings.

finaly a good plan to prevent the war. well done

[Herr Uhl]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...
finaly a good plan to prevent the war. well done

It's not really preventing as much as winning.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

internaty inmortelaty wrote...
finaly a good plan to prevent the war. well done

It's not really preventing as much as winning.

Preemption sells alot these days, so yea we can call it that after we win.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:09 .

[internaty inmortelaty]

yet we in the real word expect to beat terorisem with kindness i wander why we dont see that back in our war games?

[KnightofPhoenix]

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

yet we in the real word expect to beat terorisem with kindness i wander why we dont see that back in our war games?

There is a big difference between international terrorism, done by very small groups, and a full scale rebellion. They can't be delt with in the same way. A rebellion can be crushed by simply slaughtering most of them. That we cannot do with international terrorism, since they are not build upon popular support in the first place. Although assassination can and has been used in both instances.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:14 .

[Creature 1]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

A:the question was what if they would rebel not if they rebel
B:like knight of phoenix sayed its only gonne happen if there is a carsimatic figheur but i thought that was common knowledge...
C:i still dont hear any plan on how to crush the elven uprising i hear plenty of plans on how the elf's would win but i hear nobody tell about a plan to prevent or crush a uprising.

SImple. Assassinate the would be charismatic leader. Declare an exalted march if the situation escallated, which won't happen. Slaughter a bunch of them as example, while decorating all the alienages with elven heads on pikes. Kill annoying people like Shanni. If they continue to rebel, blockade them and let them starve to death. Which is easy seeing that the alienage is situated right in the center of the city. Of course tighten security at the ports.
Collaborators would be sold into slavery. And tada, once again the elves are humiliated and put in their place.

Elves are too weak they cannot acquire real allies. Maybe the Qunari would provide indirect aid, but they certainly would not go into full scale war for the sake of some weaklings.

Heads on pikes?  How about just elves on pikes?  This goes up to 11. 

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Qunari will not attack Orlais, they are too busy fighting Tevinter. And Orlais is a superpower, it can't be delt with that easily. Not when it can declare an exalted march and gather allies in a heartbeat.
 

My plan doesn't involve taking over Orlais, it involves sacking the capital and killing everyone in it ( save the elves who join you of course ), it would be eventually found out, that is true, but by then every single capital in every country with an alienage would be sacked. ( if my plan worked, and I think it would )

[internaty inmortelaty]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

internaty inmortelaty wrote...

yet we in the real word expect to beat terorisem with kindness i wander why we dont see that back in our war games?

There is a big difference between international terrorism, done by very small groups, and a full scale rebellion. They can't be delt with in the same way. A rebellion can be crushed by simply slaughtering most of them. That we cannot do with international terrorism, since they are not build upon popular support in the first place. Although assassination can and has been used in both instances.

yeah about me saying that i spoke a a wise friend of mine shivirien he told me that kindness prevent rebelions and uprising in the first place so there accelty smart by winning the hards and minds of any portentail terrorist.
hm i wander why i didnt come up with that.
as for my idea to prevent the elven uprising simple stop threating them like dirt and consider them the same as human same right's etc that way we get there support and thus more troops workers and so forth.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Qunari will not attack Orlais, they are too busy fighting Tevinter. And Orlais is a superpower, it can't be delt with that easily. Not when it can declare an exalted march and gather allies in a heartbeat.
 

My plan doesn't involve taking over Orlais, it involves sacking the capital and killing everyone in it ( save the elves who join you of course ), it would be eventually found out, that is true, but by then every single capital in every country with an alienage would be sacked. ( if my plan worked, and I think it would )

Seeing the map of Thedas: http://images1.wikia...0/ThedasMap.jpg

The Qunari have a pretty long way to go to reach Orlais. And no real benefits to an operation such as this. Plus, the Qunari fleet can be spotted long before it can reach the walking sea. And such a large scale operation will require a lot of cohesivness and unity amongst the elves, which they lack. Zevran sees himself as Antivan first and foremost and not an elf. One of the Tevinter slavers was an elf...etc. 
And the Qunari will not risk open warfare with all the nations of Thedas (and they already lost to them) for the sake of the elves.
Your best bet is to do this to Tevinter only. Seeing the tension between Orlais and Tevinter, then an exalted march might not be delcared as easily. And the Qunari have a direct vested interest in defeating Tevinter.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .

[biomag]

1. Why the heck should the Qunari support the elves? What do they gain by helping the elves? yes they can beat Fereldan and then crush the weakened elves to conquer the land, but I guess this wouldn't be the best plan, right?



2. Dwarfs have a better relationship to human kings than some alienage elves, or do you see the next king of Ozammar at a cocktail party with an elder from a slum? Did you got this idea of dwarfs supporting 2nd-class citizens by looking at the caste-system in Ozammar? Or by the fact that Maric and Calain had a good relationship with the king of Ozammar? Something is telling me, there is little help from a nation fighting the darkspawn day in day out and being afraid of falling into the sky.



3. Orlais would rather support Fereldan than elves. Why? Because they treat elves even worse.



4. Alienages are easy targets. Yeah, infiltrating the human castle is a good idea, but I would say some elven fans are ignoring the fact that not all elves hate humans. Couslands for example are liked by many of their elven people. So while some think they could easily get rid of the human leaders (good luck with that anyway), a single leak within the elven plans and the humans could decide to execute their whole elven workers and close of the alienages.... and just to be sure, I would burn these city quarters down... just in case they try something as treacherous again.





The only real ally would be the dales. The same dales that aren't willing to keep fighting the humans on a large scale because they don't have the numbers. Also having many clans with different leaders weakens you too much to be effective. Coordinating a strike through many towns to be simultain is nearly impossible at that time. So any such fantasy some here had sounds easier than it is.



Right now, the elves would be pretty stupid to fight the Fereldan nation. Waiting for an aggressor from the outside who is looking for help would be my plan. But demanding help from the outside makes you just look weak and an easy pray once Fereldan is beaten... The more complicate a plan becomes the higher the chance of failure and a nation wide rebellion would be such a threat that the king would be forced to react harshly, punishing the very same people I am trying to "help".