19 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

Ok, so, when NWN was being developed I was crazy excited for the game.

Then it came out and I tried playing it.  And eventually stopped.  Then after a very short break came back to it, as sometimes I just fall out of games or new games catch my eye.  I didn't even get as far as the first time.  A longer break.  Another try, got a little farther than the first try.
A LONG BREAK (years.)  And another try.  Found myself hating the system as a whole.  Skipped the OC and tried the first expanison, didn't get far.  Another break.
Got the second expansion.  Tried that, got nowhere.
Long break.  Bought the Platinum edition for cheap (lost some of the discs over time plus got the Premium Modules.)  Tried the OC, made a character who sucked, got frustrated, at this point had learned that I hated 3rd Edition D&D, carefully min-maxed a new character and FORCED my way through the OC.  Tried the first expansion, got a little further than the first time, and stopped.  Tried a persistent world for a couple weeks, stopped.  Tried some user-made mods, found the stories and such often good, but never finished any of them.

This is the only game I've ever put this much effort into trying to like.  And, for the record, I actually liked the story of the OC just fine, it's the gameplay and the ruleset that bugs me.

ALL THAT BACKSTORY TOLD -

I did get NWN2 and later the first expanison, Mask of the Betrayer, as presents over a couple X-mases.

My question to everyone whose played both - should I bother installing NWN2?  I'm sure I will at SOME point, but I want to know from a variety of people (those who like either NWN, or both, or neither, I'm open to everyone's opinions) what I should expect from NWN2.

So - experiences?  Opinions?

[Beerfish]

NWN2 was fun as was the expansion. Not perfect by any means but I did enjoy them both.

[Kortr]

NWN's first chapter bored me to tears and while the game gets better after it, I'll have to say that overall I liked the sequel more (even if with it's annoying camera). The expansions however top both of them; imo hordes of the underdark and mask of the betrayer are a must play. The ruleset and gameplay are almost the same in both so if you didn't like them in NWN odds are you won't like them in NWN2 either.

[MerinTB]

Good responses all, thanks!



I'll end up playing it at some point - probably after PST, 3rd Time through DAO, and ME2.

[Mordaedil]

Why would you play through the bad parts of NWN and skip the only interesting thing, custom modules and online content?

[PsychoBlonde]

Colenda wrote...

I really enjoyed both NWN2 OC and MotB. However, if it's gameplay you're after, you might want to try NWN2's other expansion, Storm of Zehir. I know it appealed to a lot of old school types.

SoZ was cool for the first 2 hours or so as a nostalgia piece.  (The overworld map is creepily like the original Pool of Radiance.)  After that it got really repetitive and dull.

I think NwN was a superior product to NwN2 on the basis that NwN2 just didn't break any new ground of any kind whatsoever.  Obsidian's sequels to Bioware games are the only ones where, after playing the cooler, more upgrady version, I'd still PREFER to go back and play the OLDER ONE because they got RID of some of the features I LIKED.  I'm not normally big on mods, but I tried some with NwN and I couldn't be arsed with NwN2.


If you didn't like the SYSTEM with NwN, you're probably screwed as far as NwN2 goes.  Granted, they got rid of the power-wheel thing (yay!) and some things worked better/differently, but it's still D&D.  Still with the feats, skills, spells, leveling, etc.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 14 janvier 2010 - 06:33 .

[MerinTB]

It's not D&D so much as 3rd ED D&D that drives me crazy.

That said, I still enjoyed Icewind Dale 2 (though not as much as 1.)



And I did try all of the NWN expansions at least once, two persistent worlds online (though only 1 for more than a couple days), and quite a few community mods. I forced my way through the OC on the last attempt to just have finished SOMETHING with NWN.



I was kind of hoping for the kind of refinements in NWN2 that Obsidian had done with KotOR 2 over KotOR. If the radial menu's are gone that's a good start.

I have read many people preferring NWN2's stories to NWN's. That would help, too, though I actually thought the OC story (if not execution) was pretty good for NWN.



Again, thanks to everyone for their input!

[Seagloom]

Your interests seem to lie more with single player than multiplayer. Given that I would say NWN2 is a superior game to NWN1. The OC is much more interesting than NWN. Let me qualify that by stating that it may not be as interesting overall as Dragon Age, KotOR or some other random CRPG story. Mask of the Betrayer however is *way* better than anything official from NWN1, including Hordes of the Underdark. It feels like more action oriented successor to Planescape: Torment in some ways. Of course there isn't as much dialogue or freedom as PST, but it has a tighter and more unique story than any of the other NWN1 or 2 campaigns. You can see Avellone's handiwork all over its plot even though he wasn't lead writer. (If memory serves, George Ziets wrote the main plot.)

NWN2 also has true party combat ala the Baldur's Gate series. You can control any of four characters individually rather than only directly manipulating your PC while the AI handles your allies. This makes the game slightly more tactical. Unfortunately enemy AI is so poor that won't need to rely on serious tactics outside of a few difficult areas. It's still an improvement over NWN1 though.

Rules wise it's still third edition D&D. Although 3.5 rules rather than NWN1's 3e. They're better IMO, but at their core they aren't going to feel very different.

The plus side is an easier interface. I know many people miss the radial menu, but NWN2 has an overall better interface IMO for two simple reasons. Firstly, you get 10 quickbars instead of 3. This is great if you enjoy playing casters. You can even stack two quickbars and throw a third vertical bar elsewhere on the screen. Secondly, there is the quickcast menu. If quickbars aren't your thing you can press a key to bring up a menu with every spell neatly laid out and seperated into metamagicked versions. It isn't as fast as quickbars but you don't need to set it up in advance, making it convenient if you switch spells around often or don't mind pausing.

There's an aiming reticule for spells as well not unlike Dragon Age, making them easier to use without killing your party at core or higher difficulty. There's more feats, more spells, and a few of the new prestige classes make archetypes only possible in NWN1 through modding. Such as the fighter/mage type through Eldritch Knight or Thief/Mage via Arcane Trickster. Every class benefits in flexibility from the 3.5 rules upgrade though. Well, except fighters that are largely identical.

In my opinion NWN2 is worth a try. The OC feels more complete, even if it degrades into dungeon crawling at times, and Mask of the Betrayer is simply great. At least if you can put up with the Spirit Eater mechanic. It didn't bother me, but some players despised it.

Modifié par Seagloom, 14 janvier 2010 - 09:50 .

[MerinTB]

Sold!

I am prepared for the ruleset (I think) and you listed just enough changes to make me actually excited.

A full party I control?  That almost did it there.

Thank you very much!

Seagloom wrote...

Your interests seem to lie more with single player than multiplayer. Given that I would say NWN2 is a superior game to NWN1. The OC is much more interesting than NWN. Let me qualify that by stating that it may not be as interesting overall as Dragon Age, KotOR or some other random CRPG story. Mask of the Betrayer however is *way* better than anything official from NWN1, including Hordes of the Underdark. It feels like more action oriented successor to Planescape: Torment in some ways. Of course there isn't as much dialogue or freedom as PST, but it has a tighter and more unique story than any of the other NWN1 or 2 campaigns. You can see Avellone's handiwork all over its plot even though he wasn't lead writer. (If memory serves, George Ziets wrote the main plot.)

NWN2 also has true party combat ala the Baldur's Gate series. You can control any of four characters individually rather than only directly manipulating your PC while the AI handles your allies. This makes the game slightly more tactical. Unfortunately enemy AI is so poor that won't need to rely on serious tactics outside of a few difficult areas. It's still an improvement over NWN1 though.

Rules wise it's still third edition D&D. Although 3.5 rules rather than NWN1's 3e. They're better IMO, but at their core they aren't going to feel very different.

The plus side is an easier interface. I know many people miss the radial menu, but NWN2 has an overall better interface IMO for two simple reasons. Firstly, you get 10 quickbars instead of 3. This is great if you enjoy playing casters. You can even stack two quickbars and throw a third vertical bar elsewhere on the screen. Secondly, there is the quickcast menu. If quickbars aren't your thing you can press a key to bring up a menu with every spell neatly laid out and seperated into metamagicked versions. It isn't as fast as quickbars but you don't need to set it up in advance, making it convenient if you switch spells around often or don't mind pausing.

There's an aiming reticule for spells as well not unlike Dragon Age, making them easier to use without killing your party at core or higher difficulty. There's more feats, more spells, and a few of the new prestige classes make archetypes only possible in NWN1 through modding. Such as the fighter/mage type through Eldritch Knight or Thief/Mage via Arcane Trickster. Every class benefits in flexibility from the 3.5 rules upgrade though. Well, except fighters that are largely identical.

In my opinion NWN2 is worth a try. The OC feels more complete, even if it degrades into dungeon crawling at times, and Mask of the Betrayer is simply great. At least if you can put up with the Spirit Eater mechanic. It didn't bother me, but some players despised it.

[Seagloom]

I hope you enjoy it. Let us know how it goes.

[Skellimancer]

Fabulous hair, Seagloom!

[Seagloom]

Thanks! I wonder where I got it from...? ~Whistles Innocently~

Modifié par Seagloom, 14 janvier 2010 - 10:39 .

[Skellimancer]

[Dennis Carpenter]

Seagloom wrote...

Thanks! I wonder where I got it from...? ~Whistles Innocently~

At least you two didnt show up wearing the same outfit...

[Ponce de Leon]

We found the two twins! The broma sisters!

Still, I have to say I was disappointed in NWN. Not a great story, if I might say. I mean, the background story is quite fascinating, but the frontground one... not really. Get's better with expansion, when you get to hear an "Umm... BOOOOSS?!" every 5 or 6 seconds, yes? Yes, MAYBE?! No...



Nwn2 was a different story, and a different developer by that point. Gameplay was still similar which can be sometimes fascinating about the games themselves. Story was good and characters well developed with all their own story. Was quite a long game for all I remember, and had some hard fights. But it has it's own very big problem. Patches. They aren't just messed up completely, but in my experience I had a one heck of a hard time installing them, had to do it on hand, each one being like 500 mega big and there were about 2000 patches, the last one not being able to be installed without the other one being installed first. Complete chaos, spent more time patching up than playing. And if there was a patch installed because of a bug? Well, another BIG bug came out! Then you wait 3 months hoping for a fix, and when it comes, BANG! ANOTHER BUG! These bugs aren't really typical Morrowind-like 5 second crashes, but are complete story stoppers. You can't continue. Then eventually, I found a living God, a someone that put on the internet the executable of the auto installer update, so I could update the updater manualy to then update the game to the last patch! Incredible but true! What was the problem? The entire patching process required some... 8 or 9 hours, just to say... Apart from that? Good game, fun to play.

[Dennis Carpenter]

To get back on topic My favorite also was NWN I think the loss of the continuing storyline was what wrecked NWN2 for me. Although I enjoyed playing it it was never as gripping for me as the original.

Liked alot of the new characters in NWN2 couldnt stand the jar jar binks Kobold though (if that is how you spell it) What I most enjoyed from either was all the community content and mods that were developed. That is the single thing that kept me playing for years. There was always something new coming out and the majority were as good or better then the original stuff.

[MerinTB]

Sir Jools wrote...
Given what you have written, I find myself wondering: are you playing DA:O? And if so, are you actually liking it?

You could check my profile.

To save you a few clicks and loads, I've played the game through twice, each time taking more than 90 hours (128 the first time, 98 the second) and have started a third playthrough but am waiting to continue that on the DLC for RTO.

I love DAO.

NWN is probably the only Bioware game I didn't like - and trust me, I tried.  I really, really tried.

As for community mods - I got years of fun out of Freedom Force for just this exact reason!

[Ginasue]

I played NWN until I found on line games, Lost my heart to those. Played on a couple of servers untill I found one that I really likes.

Never played NWN 2, but from some people I heard they liked it, others didn't, so it was a mater of taste.