47 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

Do you think that LI and PC's story should always end in happiness? There were a lot of outrage over Thane's death and Jacob's cheating. also supposed that Miranda would get killed no matter what, that probably wouldn't have gone well with the fans. Some like it because it added a level of realism; however, for those who were a fan of them, they felt very cheated because other people were able to continue the story with their LIs while they're not. 

[Nykara]

It's a hard call. I am sure I would have been totally pissed off if Kaidan's story went like Jacob's did. Lucky for me it didn't. I did always plan on Thane romance play through but changed my mind when I heard it was pretty lame in ME3. It does make it more realistic but I can see why some might have been annoyed about it too.

[Xilizhra]

I believe it should always have the chance to end in happiness.

[PainCakesx]

I can see both sides of this issue. If my chosen LI had cheated on me (who is probably the least likely to do so ), I'd probably be a bit frustrated.

Thane's death was a bit different though given it was stated from the beginning that he didn't have much time left. I think so long as that is established early on, it's fine. If it's out of the blue, as it was with Jacob, then that may be a bit different.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 11 mars 2013 - 06:54 .

[Battlebloodmage]

PainCakesx wrote...

I can see both sides of this issue. If my chosen LI had cheated on me (who is probably the least likely to do so ), I'd probably be a bit frustrated.

Thane's death was a bit different though given it was stated from the beginning that he didn't have much time left. I think so long as that is established early on, it's fine. If it's out of the blue, as it was with Jacob, then that may be a bit different.

Liara? 

I thought Jacob established early that their relationship is just casual.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 11 mars 2013 - 06:56 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Thane told you he was dying the day you first met him. He had been at peace with his death since a long time before that.

An 11th hour surprise cure for him would just have cheapened his character IMO.

What happened to Jacob was completely expected for me as well.

The only character ending I did no expect is how Tali keeps rising in ranks among the Quarians despite her utter incapability to accomplish anything on her own. But I guess that's why the Quarians are going extinct.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 11 mars 2013 - 07:03 .

[Battlebloodmage]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Thane told you he was dying the day you first met him. He had been at peace with his death since a long time before that.

An 11th hour surprise cure for him would just have cheapened his character IMO.

Alternatively, they could just let people to proceed with the romance normally and let them headcannon what happens after the ending. His death has nothing to do with his illness. 

[iOnlySignIn]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Thane told you he was dying the day you first met him. He had been at peace with his death since a long time before that.

An 11th hour surprise cure for him would just have cheapened his character IMO.

Alternatively, they could just let people to proceed with the romance normally and let them headcannon what happens after the ending. His death has nothing to do with his illness. 

You mean, make his death scene off screen and after Catalyst Choice?

That would be wasted potential.

Its like Hamlet ending right after the death of the king and before the sweet prince breathes his last.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 11 mars 2013 - 07:06 .

[Budgier]

With Mass Effect, the more that's in the players realm of control the better imo. I like adding in unhappy conclusions to romances, but I don't think it should be sprung on the player like Jacob's was. They could have incorporated something along the lines of...if you gave the collector's base to TIM, then Jacob cheats because he's upset with you over that. Or something like that, ya know? Obviously they probably didn't have enough time to do this however.

I think Thane is an exception though. Anyone who romanced him in ME2 knew he was terminally ill, him dying in ME3 was tastefully done. I think Thanemancers should be happy with how everything went down, with the addition of the Citadel DLC, that's probably the most beautiful romance in the game.

[Darth Krytie]

It made sense to me that Thane's romance was sort of doomed, given you know he's dying from the start. Jacob's romance, however, just sucked. It's not like when between ME1 and 2 where two years passed. It was barely six months and suddenly he's married?

I don't necessarily think all LIs should end happily, but I think the ones that won't end happily should be telegraphed well enough that you can opt out of going down that road if you want something more traditional.

[Z-Dragon]

Darth Krytie wrote...

It made sense to me that Thane's romance was sort of doomed, given you know he's dying from the start. Jacob's romance, however, just sucked. It's not like when between ME1 and 2 where two years passed. It was barely six months and suddenly he's married?

I don't necessarily think all LIs should end happily, but I think the ones that won't end happily should be telegraphed well enough that you can opt out of going down that road if you want something more traditional.

In all fairness, he's not married, his girlfriend is simply pregnant, so.......there's that

[Nykara]

Darth Krytie wrote...

It made sense to me that Thane's romance was sort of doomed, given you know he's dying from the start. Jacob's romance, however, just sucked. It's not like when between ME1 and 2 where two years passed. It was barely six months and suddenly he's married?

I don't necessarily think all LIs should end happily, but I think the ones that won't end happily should be telegraphed well enough that you can opt out of going down that road if you want something more traditional.

I did expect that Thane romancers would at least get one last night with him before he died though. Like meeting him in one of the apartments on the Citadel rather then at the hospital. The scene could have been a whole lot better then I have heard it was.


[Edit] One good thing about a Thanemance, at least you know your not leaving your LI behind when Shep dies

Modifié par Nykara, 11 mars 2013 - 07:27 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Nykara wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

It made sense to me that Thane's romance was sort of doomed, given you know he's dying from the start. Jacob's romance, however, just sucked. It's not like when between ME1 and 2 where two years passed. It was barely six months and suddenly he's married?

I don't necessarily think all LIs should end happily, but I think the ones that won't end happily should be telegraphed well enough that you can opt out of going down that road if you want something more traditional.

I did expect that Thane romancers would at least get one last night with him before he died though. Like meeting him in one of the apartments on the Citadel rather then at the hospital. The scene could have been a whole lot better then I have heard it was.


[Edit] One good thing about a Thanemance, at least you know your not leaving your LI behind when Shep dies

Well, not if you choose Destroy. A lot of people chose Destroy because they headcannon that their character will reunite with their LI and their friends. For Thane-mancers, it wouldn't even be a choice. 

It would have been nice if they had more scenes with him even if he were to get killed later on. I'm just putting myself in their situation. I'd probably be pretty mad if Kaidan were to die during the confrontation with no possible way to save him. I could imagine the outrage if Miranda were to die as well. I guess if Thane were to die, he did go out in a glory. In retrospect, femShep got a crappy deal out of the situation when 2 of their LIs die while maleShep get to keep all of their old LIs. I still believe that Thane should have been able to be saved, but I could see the other side of the argument in this.

[Nykara]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Nykara wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

It made sense to me that Thane's romance was sort of doomed, given you know he's dying from the start. Jacob's romance, however, just sucked. It's not like when between ME1 and 2 where two years passed. It was barely six months and suddenly he's married?

I don't necessarily think all LIs should end happily, but I think the ones that won't end happily should be telegraphed well enough that you can opt out of going down that road if you want something more traditional.

I did expect that Thane romancers would at least get one last night with him before he died though. Like meeting him in one of the apartments on the Citadel rather then at the hospital. The scene could have been a whole lot better then I have heard it was.


[Edit] One good thing about a Thanemance, at least you know your not leaving your LI behind when Shep dies

Well, not if you choose Destroy. A lot of people chose Destroy because they headcannon that their character will reunite with their LI and their friends. For Thane-mancers, it wouldn't even be a choice. 

It would have been nice if they had more scenes with him even if he were to get killed later on. I'm just putting myself in their situation. I'd probably be pretty mad if Kaidan were to die during the confrontation with no possible way to save him. I could imagine the outrage if Miranda were to die as well. I guess if Thane were to die, he did go out in a glory. In retrospect, femShep got a crappy deal out of the situation when 2 of their LIs die while maleShep get to keep all of their old LIs. I still believe that Thane should have been able to be saved, but I could see the other side of the argument in this.

Well I choose what I believe my Shepard would choose. I don't pick an ending just because it has the 'breath Shep might live' scene that kills the Geth and Edi and negates the whole Geth / Quarrian peace. I choose to control the Reapers. It doesn't force change on everyone and it doesn't kill anyone. For my Shep it is the only option.They should have done better scenes with Thane while he was still alive though even if his death was expected. He got a better hero's ending then Shepard did imo, which is kind of sad

[Battlebloodmage]

Nykara wrote...



Well I choose what I believe my Shepard would choose. I don't pick an ending just because it has the 'breath Shep might live' scene that kills the Geth and Edi and negates the whole Geth / Quarrian peace. I choose to control the Reapers. It doesn't force change on everyone and it doesn't kill anyone. For my Shep it is the only option.They should have done better scenes with Thane while he was still alive though even if his death was expected. He got a better hero's ending then Shepard did imo, which is kind of sad

I'm not arguing or telling how you should choose, but I was just saying that some people's decision was influenced by other factors asides from the damages. 

I do agree that there should have been more scenes with him if romanced as well as more acknowledgement of his death.

[PainCakesx]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

I can see both sides of this issue. If my chosen LI had cheated on me (who is probably the least likely to do so ), I'd probably be a bit frustrated.

Thane's death was a bit different though given it was stated from the beginning that he didn't have much time left. I think so long as that is established early on, it's fine. If it's out of the blue, as it was with Jacob, then that may be a bit different.

Liara? 

I thought Jacob established early that their relationship is just casual.

Yes.

And I didn't romance Jacob, so I don't know. If he did, then I guess it was fair game.

[CaIIisto]

Like the end of the game itself, my preference would be that both eventualities are possible.

[Jassu1979]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Do you think that LI and PC's story should always end in happiness?

Long story short:
No. No, they absolutely should not. And sometimes, what the players want is not necessarily what the story needs. A last-minute miracle cure for Thane would have been atrocious, for example, and people who romanced him knew right from the start that they were dating a terminally ill person suffering from an incurable disease.

Could they have handled Thane's romance plot a little better in ME3? Certainly. Thanemancers had far too few tender moments with their LI before the drell succumbed to his wounds. But Thane dying was a necessary part of the story, and any other conclusion would have been unacceptable.

In other cases, however, I would prefer it if the player was given more control over the outcome, at least as far as Shepard's part is concerned.

And of course, it rankles me to no end that throughout the third installment, Shepard goes on about their relationship having a future, pulling through this mess and building a new tomorrow. Heck, even your final farewell to mere friends includes heartfelt phrases like "Nobody is going to die today" or "we will win".
I still consider it a storytelling failure that even a perfect game does not result in a "perfect" ending, as the tragic tone of the final five minutes stands in juxtaposition to the uplifting tone of many a playthrough.

[knightnblu]

An interesting question. I have long held that one of the main purposes of an RPG is to pull emotions out of a player through the telling of the story. The bad emotions are just as important as the good ones. Anger, disappointment, frustration, sorrow, are all fair game. That said, they should not be over used. Many who know me are aware that I was not at all thrilled with the handling of Williams in ME2 and ME3. But that was fair game and not all relationships work out well.

However, if BioWare is going to mess over my LI then they should have also provided the ability to let me tell her about it rather than to just turn Shepard into a wimp and let her walk all over him like a carpet. The emotions evoked at the ending were also problematic.

Dark, dreary, and sad all need to be counterbalanced. When you evoke these emotions the last thing that you want to do is to leave the player in that state and roll credits. That is an incredibly stupid thing to do as BioWare will no doubt attest. Had they balanced out those negative emotions with positive ones the troubles that they created for themselves would have been mostly eliminated and I believe that the majority of players would have accepted it. They may still gripe about the ending of ME3, but it would not have been the firestorm that we all witnessed and experienced.

I know that BioWare knows how to evoke emotion because they have done it so well in the past and with the ME trilogy. They introduced vibrant characters that pulled the player into the game world and made us believe in Shepard. In short, we bought into the ME universe lock, stock, and barrel. We cared about what happens to the NPCs that we have come to know over the period of several years, we care about the story, we care about our characters that we play.

In the end, it is ok to take an LI off of the rails as they did with Jacob and, in my opinion, Ashley. But if they are going to do that, then they should also make sure that they counterbalance the negative emotions to right the player's mental attitude and that isn't always easy to do. Further, the emotional proximity should be close enough for the counterbalance to matter. In a sense, writing an RPG is essentially pulling the strings of the players emotions like a puppeteer. When done right you can achieve great results, but when the puppeteer is inexperienced or not really paying attention then the results can be disastrous.

In telling a story one needs to keep the player's emotional state in mind. Emotions can be cancelled out, they can be ignited or potentiated, and they can be left unchanged. The writer needs to be sensitive to this and while he is taking the player for an emotional ride to his intended destination, he should also take care so as not to leave the player in an emotional state that is no longer necessary to the telling of the story.

[Nykara]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Nykara wrote...



Well I choose what I believe my Shepard would choose. I don't pick an ending just because it has the 'breath Shep might live' scene that kills the Geth and Edi and negates the whole Geth / Quarrian peace. I choose to control the Reapers. It doesn't force change on everyone and it doesn't kill anyone. For my Shep it is the only option.They should have done better scenes with Thane while he was still alive though even if his death was expected. He got a better hero's ending then Shepard did imo, which is kind of sad

I'm not arguing or telling how you should choose, but I was just saying that some people's decision was influenced by other factors asides from the damages. 

I do agree that there should have been more scenes with him if romanced as well as more acknowledgement of his death.

There is a few things acknowledgement is lacking in to be honest. Mordin dies and the only one person really mentions it?

Lack of mention fo Thane from crew members (I did like the 'this is for thane" quote tho), not to mention it took a DLC to get him a funeral.

Shepard is on a geth ship that the quarrians start destroying and Joker/Edi are the only ones who mention it? LI locked in and he doesn't even say squat about it instead he is busy going on about some biotic squad. Sorry I almost lost you because of the Quarrians but whatever I am more bothered by someone else to even give it a thought!

I am sure there are other instances as well those are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

[Knight of Dane]

It's a role playing game, I would like to think that there should always be a option for suckers like myself to have a happy end.

Just one ending in a story based RPG is lazy.

[wright1978]

I believe in player choice. Not a fan of railroading. Don't like what they did with Jacob because it wasn't down to any variable the player had picked other than choosing to romance that character. Equally while i don't take issue with thane's terminal illness i would have preferred a romanced version at least to be able to be convinved to fight to live long enough to see the war out. The only issue i have with Miranda in ME3 is that they didn't put the same effort into her she lives scenario at Sanctuary as they did for her death scene.

[PinkToolTheater]

I think happy endings should be possible, but one has to work really hard to get one. Similar to how the ME2 suicide mission works with ship upgrades and loyalty missions. If one is going to attempt to slack/rush through the game, the best outcome shouldn't be available.

[Ieldra]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
Do you think that LI and PC's story should always end in happiness? There were a lot of outrage over Thane's death and Jacob's cheating. also supposed that Miranda would get killed no matter what, that probably wouldn't have gone well with the fans. Some like it because it added a level of realism; however, for those who were a fan of them, they felt very cheated because other people were able to continue the story with their LIs while they're not. 

Thane's death was fine. Those who romanced Thane knew from day one what they were in for, and if they really thought things wouldn't end as he told you in your first encounter (!!!) they don't know how stories work. Complain about how it was basically forgotten that he was an LI in ME3 and I'm with you, but his death was fine.

Jacob's cheating, however, was a bad surprise, with the way it was sprung on the player without any kind of foreshadowing. It may add a level of realism, but it isn't fair to the player. If such things happen, it should add to the story. It should happen for an interesting reason and not just because Bioware doesn't want to spend the resources to create romance content for the least popular LI. Also, the cheating was made more galling because we didn't have a way to react appropriately. 

[Edolix]

Knight of Dane wrote...

It's a role playing game, I would like to think that there should always be a option for suckers like myself to have a happy end.

Just one ending in a story based RPG is lazy.

Yeah...the option should have existed.