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[Reidbynature]

 I'm just wondering.  What are the chances of seeing Sten in DA3?

I think Sten was one of the highlights of DA:O and with the retcon the Qunari received, I would love to see how he would be depicted and how he's fared since Origins.  I know he still wouldn't have horns since apparently there still exist hornless Qunari (if I recall correctly), but I'd be interested to see how the games would depict him both in looks and character.

[Sweawm]

I do believe (SPOILERS for the comics... maybe)

.... that after Hawke slew the last Arishock, Sten was appointed the new one. That I remember from the latest comics, I think.

Oh, and I remember reading that hornless Qunari are supposedly destined for greatness? There's a lot of conflicting opinions out there, but I believe this was apart of the actual Bioware response.

[Reidbynature]

I was vaguely aware of the comic (though thanks for the info), but I'm sceptical as to how much the comics and books are canon to the games. Though the comic Sten does look interesting.

More importantly I would just like to see him in the games again and how they would handle him. It would be great if DA3's protagonist came across him as a non-recruitable npc.

Modifié par Reidbynature, 11 mars 2013 - 08:48 .

[BeatoSama]

I'm pretty sure the comics are canon in the games unless they contradict your playthrough.

[BouncyFrag]

I'd love for him to come back, but since he could die in DA:O, I'm not sure how much Bioware would invest in him returning. However, the same could have been said of Wrex in Mass Effect and he had big roles in ME2 and 3. Bioware just got another voice actor to play 'generic krogan chief guy' if he didn't make it off Vermire.  Sten becoming the Arishok is parallel with Wrex leading the Krogan. A return of the honorable Sten would make me the happiest of pandas, but if he doesn't return, I would be as he is in that well-known pic of him, dissapoint. Ditto if they give him the Anders treatment by using a new voice actor and completely changing his character for the worse.

[The Elder King]

BouncyFrag wrote...

I'd love for him to come back, but since he could die in DA:O, I'm not sure how much Bioware would invest in him returning. However, the same could have been said of Wrex in Mass Effect and he had big roles in ME2 and 3. Bioware just got another voice actor to play 'generic krogan chief guy' if he didn't make it off Vermire.  Sten becoming the Arishok is parallel with Wrex leading the Krogan. A return of the honorable Sten would make me the happiest of pandas, but if he doesn't return, I would be as he is in that well-known pic of him, dissapoint. Ditto if they give him the Anders treatment by using a new voice actor and completely changing his character for the worse.

They could go on Wrex route, yes. And while I haven't bought the dlc yet, I'm glad that the fact that the possible death state of Wrex didn't preven Bioware from giving him a large role in Citadel.

About Sten, though, I don't remember him dying on-screen. I recall that he could die in Lothering if you leave him there in the epilogue, but I don't remember if you can kill him in the cage (never did) or if in Haven, after your fight with him, you can kill him. if he dies only off-screen, there are high chances that the epilogue could be "modified". Bioware said that they'll not bring back a characters that died on-screen (as Lelian in DAO) but they said that the epilogue slides could be changed if it serves for the plot (as it was with Anders in DAA).
I don't know what approach they're going to choose, if Sten will be back, but it doesn't bother me since he's alive in all my playthroughs.

SPOILER



Regardless, since he could be the Arishok if he's alive, I'm sure he'll be back in one games. The Qunari invasion, in my opinion, will be a plot in one game, if the series will continue to be successful for Bioware.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

BeatoSama wrote...

I'm pretty sure the comics are canon in the games unless they contradict your playthrough.

They are canon even if they contradict your playthrough as well which means they are pretty much canon.

[The Elder King]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

BeatoSama wrote...

I'm pretty sure the comics are canon in the games unless they contradict your playthrough.

They are canon even if they contradict your playthrough as well which means they are pretty much canon.

They're not, since Gaider said that the events of the comics, depending on your choices in the games, could be different, or they could've not happened at all.

[Augustei]

hhh89 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

BeatoSama wrote...

I'm pretty sure the comics are canon in the games unless they contradict your playthrough.

They are canon even if they contradict your playthrough as well which means they are pretty much canon.

They're not, since Gaider said that the events of the comics, depending on your choices in the games, could be different, or they could've not happened at all.

They're Canon if they line up with the events of your save in some way, Sten becomes Arishok as long as he survives in origins.. He teams up with Alistair to defeat Aurilean Titus as long as Alistair lived in origins.. Even if he was a King or Grey Warden etc.

Anyway as for Sten returning, lets hope this time he isn't so addled and confused like he was in origins. "So this is where you humans keep your wisdom" "you humans are strange blah blah blah" IM A DWARF STEN WTF YOU GOING ON ABOUT?!

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

hhh89 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

BeatoSama wrote...

I'm pretty sure the comics are canon in the games unless they contradict your playthrough.

They are canon even if they contradict your playthrough as well which means they are pretty much canon.

They're not, since Gaider said that the events of the comics, depending on your choices in the games, could be different, or they could've not happened at all.

Priestly said that the Doctors werent leaving Bioware as well and we all know how that turned out dont we? I wouldnt believe everything you hear especially considering how well the save import was handled from Origins to DA2, Death is but a mere triviality to characters such as Leliana and Sten.

[BeatoSama]

The devs has stated that there is a reason for Leliana's resurrection. Probably has something to do with the ashes.

[Zerker]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...
Priestly said that the Doctors werent leaving Bioware as well and we all know how that turned out dont we? I wouldnt believe everything you hear especially considering how well the save import was handled from Origins to DA2, Death is but a mere triviality to characters such as Leliana and Sten.

Seriously, just stop it with the Priestly examples already. Man is the community manager, he lies a lot to keep the community in line, period. Not a cool method, but it is what it is. Anyway, David Gaider is a writer, he doesn't have that luxury, you should be able to make that distinction.

It is not just the possible death of Sten either, in order for comics to be canon, you also have to crown Alistair as king and have a high enough friendship/rivalry score with Isabela for her to return during the Qunari invasion. Also, you have to choose not to give her to Arishok. If Arishok is not dead, Sten cannot take his place; and if you give give Isabela to Qunari, she can't join Alistair and Varric for the mission.

Comics are canon for one particular playthrough, and it is the most popular one in my opinion, they fit into all my saves.

Modifié par Maddok900, 11 mars 2013 - 10:45 .

[The Elder King]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...



Priestly said that the Doctors werent leaving Bioware as well and we all know how that turned out dont we? I wouldnt believe everything you hear especially considering how well the save import was handled from Origins to DA2, Death is but a mere triviality to characters such as Leliana and Sten.

They're completely different topics, and said by two different people, with different roles in Bioware. The Doctors's leaving Bioware was an important news, since it forced Bioware to announce DA3 for calming people's fears about Bioware. They tried to cover it up until the last minute to prevent problems.
For the comics being canon, there are not reason to believe they'd be "canon" if some events go against it. The events of the comics might happen, but they'd be different.



SPOILER




Or do you expect Alistair to magically appear after being executed, or being the King of Ferelden when he wasn't in DA2? Even if Sten was always the Arishok (highly possible, since I recall he died only off-screen in the epilogues, so it's not completely a retcon, since Bioware said clearly that the slides could be modified if there are reasons for that), Alistair would be dead or exiled. This isn't going to be retconned.
There is a reason (unexplained so far) for Leliana being still alive (though I'm still agaisnt it), but Bioware said that they're not going to do things like that in the future. For example, Anders would stay dead, if you killed him in DA2.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

BeatoSama wrote...

The devs has stated that there is a reason for Leliana's resurrection. Probably has something to do with the ashes.

Of course, it is much easier to come up with a reason after the retcon has happened, if Death cant stop Leliana from returning what is stopping Sten from taking the title of Arishok?

Maddok900 wrote...

Seriously, just stop it with the Priestly examples already. Man is the community manager, he lies a lot to keep the community in line, period. Not a cool method, but it is what it is. Anyway, David Gaider is a writer, he doesn't have that luxury, you should be able to make that distinction.

Leave Priestly alone? You should make a youtube video, worker well for that Crocker fellow. So what you are saying is that David Gaider being a writer makes him incapable of lying? Is there some sort of writers code that prevents them from lying?

[Reidbynature]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Leave Priestly alone? You should make a youtube video, worker well for that Crocker fellow. So what you are saying is that David Gaider being a writer makes him incapable of lying? Is there some sort of writers code that prevents them from lying?

Retcons.  

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

hhh89 wrote...

Or do you expect Alistair to magically appear after being executed

I dont see why not given that Leliana did exactly the same thing, hell Leliana's death actually happened on screen by the hand of the PC so if they are able to retcon that I dont see why Bioware cant retcon an execution we never see happen.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Edit: Damn you double post

Modifié par Mr Mxyzptlk, 11 mars 2013 - 11:01 .

[Reidbynature]

I have to ask. Can we honestly call it a retcon when it's regarding a part of the story that's not really set in place and open to player choice and there arguably is no canon for those instances? Wouldn't it just be setting the canon rather than a retcon?

[The Elder King]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Or do you expect Alistair to magically appear after being executed

I dont see why not given that Leliana did exactly the same thing, hell Leliana's death actually happened on screen by the hand of the PC so if they are able to retcon that I dont see why Bioware cant retcon an execution we never see happen.

They said they're not going to do this anymore, in a thread about Anders returning in DA3. Considering that Alistari remained dead or exiled in DA2, they chose already what to do with Alistair. Of course you can say that they're lying again, but there's not proof of both of our theories, so we'll just have to wait.
Regardless, we'll see soon if Alistair's death (and exile) will be retconneted, since if DA3 will have Ferelden as a location, we'll probably know who is the ruler. So in the case Alistair will not be always the king, it'll mean that they didn't retconneted his death, so the comics aren't going to be always "canon".

[The Elder King]

Reidbynature wrote...

I have to ask. Can we honestly call it a retcon when it's regarding a part of the story that's not really set in place and open to player choice and there arguably is no canon for those instances? Wouldn't it just be setting the canon rather than a retcon?

If in one playthrough you executed Alistair on-screen, and in the next games he's alive and king, it's a retcon. That's why more people are pissed about Leliana in DAO than Anders in DAA (though I wasn't particulary happy about it). The latter dies in a epilogue slide, which isn't set in place. Changing this isn't really a retcon. Bioware said that they're going to change the slides if it fits the story, while if a NPC was killed on-screen, he/she's going to stay dead.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

hhh89 wrote...
They said they're not going to do this anymore, in a thread about Anders returning in DA3. Considering that Alistari remained dead or exiled in DA2, they chose already what to do with Alistair.

Anderson remained Councilor in ME2 which fell in line with the choice you made in ME1 but please remind me who was the Human Council member in ME3?

Modifié par Mr Mxyzptlk, 11 mars 2013 - 11:16 .

[The Elder King]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
They said they're not going to do this anymore, in a thread about Anders returning in DA3. Considering that Alistari remained dead or exiled in DA2, they chose already what to do with Alistair.

Anderson remained Councilor in ME2 which fell in line with the choice you made in ME1 but please remind me who was the Councilor in ME3?

This event wasn't retconneted. Anderson left the position of Councilor after ME2 and before ME3 in the case he was chosed and become an Admiral. (there's even a book about it, if you want to know). It's a cheap move to make things simple for the story, but it's not a retcon.

Modifié par hhh89, 11 mars 2013 - 11:20 .

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

hhh89 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
They said they're not going to do this anymore, in a thread about Anders returning in DA3. Considering that Alistari remained dead or exiled in DA2, they chose already what to do with Alistair.

Anderson remained Councilor in ME2 which fell in line with the choice you made in ME1 but please remind me who was the Councilor in ME3?

This event wasn't retconneted. Anderson left the position of Councilor after ME2 and before ME3 in the case he was chosed and become an Admiral. (there's even a book about it, if you want to know). It's a cheap move to make things simple for the story, but it's not a retcon.

And if Bioware decide to explain Leliana's resurection via some Deus Ex Machina space magic resurection power (of which there are no current known forms of resurection magic in Thedas) I guess that wouldnt be considered a retcon either?

[The Elder King]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

[

And if Bioware decide to explain Leliana's resurection via some Deus Ex Machina space magic resurection power (of which there are no current known forms of resurection magic in Thedas) I guess that wouldnt be considered a retcon either?

Of course it'd be. It'd be (in my opinion) even if she wasn't really dead, but the magic of the place healed her. And I know that whatever explanation there'll be, I'm not going to like it. I don't have any choice than move on on that. That's why I liked the fact that Gaider said that dead people are going to stay dead (with the exception of Leliana), and I hope they'll stick to that thinking.

Anderson's situation is completely different. He was a Councilor and decided to quit after ME2 and prior ME3. This is in no way a retcon, since there's nothing that prevent a Councilor to quit his position. Again, it's a cheap move, since they wanted to make the plot of the story practically the same no matter what you decisions were in the previous games (and this lead to a huge con of ME3, since only an handful of your choices have a influence in ME3), but it's not in the same league of bringing a dead person back.

Modifié par hhh89, 11 mars 2013 - 11:39 .

[Reidbynature]

hhh89 wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

I have to ask. Can we honestly call it a retcon when it's regarding a part of the story that's not really set in place and open to player choice and there arguably is no canon for those instances? Wouldn't it just be setting the canon rather than a retcon?

If in one playthrough you executed Alistair on-screen, and in the next games he's alive and king, it's a retcon. That's why more people are pissed about Leliana in DAO than Anders in DAA (though I wasn't particulary happy about it). The latter dies in a epilogue slide, which isn't set in place. Changing this isn't really a retcon. Bioware said that they're going to change the slides if it fits the story, while if a NPC was killed on-screen, he/she's going to stay dead.

It's not a retcon just because some people played that outcome instead of another.  It wasn't set in place meaning it had no canon decision.  Now it does.  That's different from a retcon (unless you count headcanon as actual canon).

Also in regards to comics and books mention earlier and their status.  The comics and books are not canon because they line up with some playthroughs.  If they're canon it's because the developers say they are and that future games will take note of what goes on in them and incorporate them into future games.

Modifié par Reidbynature, 11 mars 2013 - 11:42 .