182 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucius Aelius]

Flambrose wrote...

Lucius Aelius wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...
PPR deals massive damage on any lvl 1 char

Quite right, and the PPR being so good on this character doesn't in and of itself make the character good or in less need of a buff in some areas, but quite frankly I think the PPR is better on the Cabal than any other character in the game, and that's not nothing. Spamming Biotic Focus (with shield restore) let's you tank heavy fire while maintaining the charged-up beam for longer, letting the Cabal put out more DPS with this weapon than most other characters can manage (and the Cabal can put out more DPS with it while under heavy fire than anyone).

I take boolets, do mssive dPS on platinium.

Nevermind that human soldier can do the same thing. Putting PPR on her does not make her a good class. If anything, needing to rely on one of the best weapons in the game to put out acceptable damage shows just how weak she is.

Cabal is able to tank much more fire (Adrenaline Rush can't be spammed nearly as rapidly as Biotic Focus, not to mention the higher HP and teleportation). Human Soldier doesn't come close to being this awesome.

[Bzilla]

She definitely shines if you play alongside an adept since her Poison Strike sets off BEs.

[Lucius Aelius]

I don't always fight from range, quite often actually I get up in enemies faces, I use Nightshade Blades to stagger mooks so I can ramp-up the PPR and melt their faces, Biotic Focus especially is what allows me to be so aggressive and get away with it, and again that Poison Strike teleportation is amazing even without killing things. I can hardly say this character on her own has the DPS to match the highest-DPS-dealing characters in the game, but she makes up for it with survivability and sheer awesomeness. I like using the PPR, and I also like playing very aggressively. This character lets me do both at the same time better than any other character could hope to match.

[Fortack]

peddroelmz wrote...

Her melee attacks stunlock phantoms (any infantry unit..) . If this is not a hint she was designed to fight in melee range ... And she has the means to get in to melee range towards unsuspecting targets even trough walls ... You don't can't get more "vanguard" than that ..

Poison strike is a mobility trick ... Trying to turn it into charge is futile ...

Heavy melee teleport/charge (free of cooldown) is what makes her a vanguard ..

Indeed.

However, being a one-trick-pony against a select number of enemies is kinda meh IMHO. It wouldn't hurt buffing her other abilities significantly to make her more flexible. It's not like that an improved version of PS, her blades and/or BF are going to make her anything near OP. More (viable) options / ways to play her are a good thing.

[stysiaq]

Air Quotes wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

I'm sorry Air Quotes, but if you complain about Poison Strike then you're just doing it wrong. L2P.

 

No one can do it right, because it sucks. And if you don't use PS to attack, you're not playing a Vanguard. I will cover Biotic Focus and Nightshade Blades + melee a bit later. 

lol, I just tried to quasi-troll ya.

The best use of Poison Strike is detonating explosions, but there's already a gajilion better detonators. As you explained, her dodge (possibly the best one in the game) covers the... dodging and skipping ledges/walls.

I like the idea of PS, but it would be really nice if I didn't have to turn back after doing it.

I think that 50% - 60% of the Huntress Dark Channel damage would be sufficient.

[Dream-Maker]

PS shouldn't be used the same way as biotic charge... It can't anyway. Personally I use it as a DPS move as well as a detonator for tech and biotic explosions, on top of using it as a teleporting tool (the best in the game btw if you choose the distance evo, you can litterally go through several walls).

People need to know that PS doesn't hit after a certain distance (only for the first 6 meters or so), so the trick is to use it from close range to enemies and use the remaining distance to have a safe landing. If you can use it back and forth on the same enemy, preferably after priming a tech burst with your weapon before each jump, you'll do a ****load of damage.

Nightshade blade and Biotic focus are both great abilities without question, so nothing to complain about here. You just have to time your biotic focuses so that the shared cooldown with poison strike won't prevent you from doing it when needed and you're good to go.

IMO the Cabal is fine as is, even if she's probably one of the weakest reckoning kits, but honestly all of them are very powerful if you compare them with the entire cast of characters. Her biggest flaw though is how the lag off-host affects her in so many ways, from the heavy melee to the dodge teleport and of course poison strike.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 11 mars 2013 - 03:45 .

[samb]

 Nice. The op basically put all my doubts about this class into words. When I play her I can't can't shake the feeling that I'd rather play a novaguard instead. Now I know why. 

She can be good but not "vanguard" good. And that is because her power to get up close is unreliable compared to BC. Thanks for that AirQuotes. 

[BjornDaDwarf]

Air Quotes wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

best melee char in the game /thread

build

 

I will cover the melee too. 

But you chose to whine and complain first.

classic BSN.

[mrcanada]

I go melee as well, but I find it imperative to max Nightshade and take the barrier restore in BR. The build is 4/6/6/4/6. You don't really need to use a weapon much, but the Talon is preferable with power and melee mods and still does very good damage/apply ammo effects.

Bosses are NOT your targets, but you can deal with them just fine due to your mobility and DOT from Poison Strike. Poison Striking back and forth is very underrated in its damage potential and almost makes you invulnerable to larger bosses by them not being able to get a bead on you. Couple that with blade staggers and Biotic Focus spam and you won't be dying at all.

I often get killstreaks with blade spamming spawns and due to her speed, blades are easy to replenish. While the Geth Scanner is beneficial for her melee, I find myself gravitating to grenade capacity simply due to how diverse and effective the Nightshade blades are.

Other than that, I do exactly what you do only I believe you can be even more effective with my build at larger skirmishes due to the huge damage and spread blades utilize.

Although I like the added damage outright from evo 4 in Poison Strike, it may be better to take evo 5 in the passive and buff the blades without losing too much on the PS.

Modifié par mrcanada, 11 mars 2013 - 03:56 .

[Invader Nemesis]

China called...they want their wall back....Seriously that is the biggest wall of text I've ever seen. I wonder if you prove any points though. I kind of have a life...and things to do so...not gonna read. I think the cabal is awesome as is other than Posion strike needs fixing.

[stysiaq]

@BjornDaDwarf

Look at InvaderNemesis post. He basically just posted his lack of interest in reading a really insightful post.

Now THAT is typical BSN.

[peddroelm]

Air Quotes wrote...

Fortack wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Her melee attacks stunlock phantoms (any infantry unit..) . If this is not a hint she was designed to fight in melee range ... And she has the means to get in to melee range towards unsuspecting targets even trough walls ... You don't can't get more "vanguard" than that ..

Poison strike is a mobility trick ... Trying to turn it into charge is futile ...

Heavy melee teleport/charge (free of cooldown) is what makes her a vanguard ..

Indeed.

However, being a one-trick-pony against a select number of enemies is kinda meh IMHO. It wouldn't hurt buffing her other abilities significantly to make her more flexible. It's not like that an improved version of PS, her blades and/or BF are going to make her anything near OP. More (viable) options / ways to play her are a good thing.

 

PS has to makes up for weapon damage you can dish out in the time PS takes to execute. Biotic Charge makes up for it with improved power damage and weapons damage + restoring shields. 

PS has nothing of sorts. It's damage laughable and it has no shield restore.  

when you will accept the heavy melee is the true "charge" skill for the cabal you will also realize with surprise how much more damage it does compared to "biotic charge" ... Your premise that Poison strike MUST  BE exactly like biotic charge but with green colors instead is ridiculous .. It is a completely different thing with a different purpose ... 

Next thing you start complaining concussive shot does less damage than biotic charge ... Different skills are meant to do different things ... You already have a gazillion characters with "biotic charge"  .. Pick one and go charging all the things and it will feel the same on all of them ... But if you want to try something DIFFERENT, new and fun - then  we might start discussing cabal ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 mars 2013 - 04:11 .

[capn233]

Lucius Aelius wrote...

Cabal is able to tank much more fire (Adrenaline Rush can't be spammed nearly as rapidly as Biotic Focus, not to mention the higher HP and teleportation). Human Soldier doesn't come close to being this awesome.

Human soldier doesn't need to tank as much because he already shot all the enemies.

[Turian Master Race]

Air Quotes wrote...

Bzilla wrote...

She definitely shines if you play alongside an adept since her Poison Strike sets off BEs.

 

Biotic Charge will do it better. With more damage too. 

And is this a reason to completely ignore it as a detonator? Look, PS gives you:

-positional advantage as you can get behind the enemy fast
-damage and some DOT
-BE or FE

How is this bad?

I am not against buffing PS damage, but it is not as useless as some of the comments here BSN would suggest.

[Pho Kadat]

Invader Nemesis wrote...

China called...they want their wall back....Seriously that is the biggest wall of text I've ever seen. I wonder if you prove any points though. I kind of have a life...and things to do so...not gonna read. I think the cabal is awesome as is other than Posion strike needs fixing.

When did "wall of text" begin to include lengthy posts that are well structured using paragraphs? Seems more like a high-rise with plenty of windows so rational thoughts can shine through. A true wall of text entombs thought behind bricks of run-on-sentances, misspellings, and generally incoherent babble.

[corporal doody]

SixDN9nE wrote...

Deerber wrote...

No TL;DR, will not bang evah, sorry...

Nailed it.

Wait... No you didn't...

Regardless of all that, yes. This one.

gonna have to agree with this.

took me awhile to find a build i liked with her. went through 6 respec cards. a buddy told me his build...tried it...LOVED IT!

4/6/6/6/4.  incendiary ammo. shotty or smg.  nades...yum yum.  spamming the biotic focus....chargin for the FOOOMs!

[Invader Nemesis]

stysiaq wrote...

@BjornDaDwarf

Look at InvaderNemesis post. He basically just posted his lack of interest in reading a really insightful post.

Now THAT is typical BSN.

Dude...did you not read my post? If I wanted to read a book I'd go to the libary. If it makes Air Qoutes feel better to go on a rant about the cabal, good or bad, then he should go for it. I was just stating my opinion on where I stand on the cabal.

[VaultingFrog]

While it is an alright character it is not a great character. She has a unique feel to her as she is the only one who can poison people. That in and of itself is really cool.

I love her nightshade blades and biotic focus, though the BF needs a bit of tweeking to help her out a bit.

Her poison strike needs a bit of work however. It is too unreliable to hit things. I consider it more of an enhanced heavy melee than a biotic power. Too often I find myself flying past the mook or mooks I was targeting with out giving them a scratch. If its accuracy was improved it would be so much better. As it stands now its more of a movement utility to go through walls (which she already can do with her dodge) at greater range.

Her melee is fun though the heavy melee also suffers greatly from inaccuracy. Its nice to be able to poison something and walk away to have it die. However I wish it did more than a DoT on things. It is poison after all and should slow down or weaken organic targets to a degree. That would be epic, though fighting the Geth would be tougher.

As I said, she is alright but with any character comes the need to tweek it a bit to make it closer to perfection.

[Happy Shepard]

peddroelmz wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Fortack wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Her melee attacks stunlock phantoms (any infantry unit..) . If this is not a hint she was designed to fight in melee range ... And she has the means to get in to melee range towards unsuspecting targets even trough walls ... You don't can't get more "vanguard" than that ..

Poison strike is a mobility trick ... Trying to turn it into charge is futile ...

Heavy melee teleport/charge (free of cooldown) is what makes her a vanguard ..

Indeed.

However, being a one-trick-pony against a select number of enemies is kinda meh IMHO. It wouldn't hurt buffing her other abilities significantly to make her more flexible. It's not like that an improved version of PS, her blades and/or BF are going to make her anything near OP. More (viable) options / ways to play her are a good thing.

 

PS has to makes up for weapon damage you can dish out in the time PS takes to execute. Biotic Charge makes up for it with improved power damage and weapons damage + restoring shields. 

PS has nothing of sorts. It's damage laughable and it has no shield restore.  

when you will accept the heavy melee is the true "charge" skill for the cabal you will also realize with surprise how much more damage it does compared to "biotic charge" ... Your premise that Poison strike MUST  BE exactly like biotic charge but with green colors instead is ridiculous .. It is a completely different thing with a different purpose ... 

Next thing you start complaining concussive shot does less damage than biotic charge ... Different skills are meant to do different things ... You already have a gazillion characters with "biotic charge"  .. Pick one and go charging all the things and it will feel the same on all of them ... But if you want to try something DIFFERENT, new and fun - then  we might start discussing cabal ...

Imo, the reason why Poison Strike feels so underwhelming is because anything it does, can be done better by another power or her dodge/melee. Melee and Nightshade Blades DoT is stronger/does more damage. As you said, the real charge is her Melee. So why charge with Poison Strike?  You have better options for damage/DoT and why waste a CD just to dodge forward if you could use her Melee/forward dodge?

The only thing Poison Strike is good for is detonating explosions. Unfortunately, it is anything but a reliable detonator, especially off-host.

[STRANGE10VE]

More damage and dot would be nice but I really want more range. The range you get with rank 4b, 16 meters i think, should be the base range. I do think there should be an evo that gives you either melee damage or weapon damage bonuses. It would probably require a patch, but this is what i would do:
- increase base range to 16 meters
- increase rank 2 cooldown bonus so you don't need the cooldown evo at rank 5
- rank 5a evo could be +25% weapon damage for 5 seconds
- rank 5b evo could be +25% melee damage for 5 seconds