60 réponses à ce sujet

[Athenau]

The weapon/power balance changes in the last patch mean that an Infiltrator with a Javelin, sniper damage evolutions for cloak and operational mastery, fortification evolved for bonus power damage, and disruptor ammo evolved for max damage will be able to one shot most shielded enemies.  To demonstrate:

Javelin X base damage:  1545
Multiplicative sniper damage bonus: +55%
Base Power damage bonus:  40% (30% from fortification, 10% from passive).
Disruptor Ammo Damage:  84%

Ammo power damage = 1545 *1.55 * .84 = 2012

Most shielded enemies on insanity have less than 2000 shields, so this is enough to strip their shields entirely before the base damage gets applied (so no shield gate).  So if you've wanted to play a one-shot one-kill sniper on Insanity, but didn't because of shield gate, you can now (and yes I've tested it in-game, it works).

Modifié par Athenau, 11 mars 2013 - 02:02 .

[RaptorSolutions]

headshot?

[Athenau]

Nope, no need to headshot. Even a bodyshot does enough damage to kill once your disruptor ammo damage strips the shields.

[RaptorSolutions]

Hmmm... Looks like I'm restarting another infil playthrough then. Always was annoyed that I can't oneshot things without ED which was clunky.

[capn233]

What about a Javelin V?

I don't like that you need to go NG+ (or hack) plus Fortification to do it. I guess it is better than what we had though.

[Athenau]

Javelin V should do 1787 ammo damage, so that should work too. But you get it pretty late in the game on a first playthrough.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

Widow too?
edit: and what about the Mantis?

Modifié par DJCS, 11 mars 2013 - 03:59 .

[RedCaesar97]

Last time I tried a Javelin V with the balance changes, I could not one-shot Centurians. This was with a Soldier using max Disruptor Ammo damage + max ammo power damage + Fortification with power damage, for a total of +108% shield damage. No health damage was dealt to the Centurian.

I would have to test this again to see.

Not sure how the Infiltrator would be different. Tactical Cloak damage does not apply to ammo powers, unless that has changed in the last patch (did not test). It looks like the multiplicative sniper damage bonus (+55%) is applied to ammo power damage, which does not make a lot of sense. I suppose this is supposed to be common knowledge, but What The --- ?

[capn233]

Infiltrator Rank 6 passive and the SR bonus of cloak do add to ammo damage.

I wouldn't say it is common knowledge... but it is known.

Ammo_Power_Damage
-----------------

Ammo_Power_Damage = ModifiedBaseWeaponDamage * AmmoPowerMod * AmmoResistanceBonusMultiplier

ModifiedBaseWeaponDamage = BaseWeaponDamage * BChargeMultiplier* (1 + sum_base_damage_bonuses)

BaseWeaponDamage
: For the most part this is the value for the weapon damage read from coalesced.ini .Purchasing (unlocking) weapon versions from II to X upgrades increases this value by roughfully 2.77% per upgrade lvl (~25/9 ~25% damage bonus for Weapon, 9 upgrade lvls) ... (in coalesced.ini there are two values for weapon damage  I and X) ...I say roughfully because Weapon X damage is roughfully Weapon I damage * 1.25 (25%) Its not quite 25% for any of the weapons and differs from weapon to weapon
...

Compacted Formula for Calculating BaseWeaponDamage_n for upgrade level n ( n integer 1 < n < 10 ) ...
BaseWeaponDamage_n = ((BaseWeaponDamage_X-BaseWeaponDamage_I)/9) * (n-1) + BaseWeaponDamage_I

Ex ..for Typhoon II (44.4 55.5)
((55.5 - 44.4) / 9) * (2 - 1) + 44.4 = 45.6333 ..

BChargeMultiplier - for SOME (Graal, Typhoon, PPR , GSMG) of the charged weapons the charge multiplier will apply to the baseweapondamage

sum_base_damage_bonuses .. Tactical Cloak rank 6 bonus to Sniper Rifles fired from cloak (SP & MP); Geth Bonus With Geth weapons (MP) ; "Operatinal mastery" rank 6 "SNIPER RIFLE" (5% extra damage , 15% sniper rifle damage (SP)
...

(In MP there are no AMMO POWERS - there are ammo consumables that function rather similarly to their SP "ammo power" counterparts ..)

When using an ammo power the damage provided by the ammo power disruptor, warp , AP) is applied before the
Actual_Weapon_Damage_Impact and as such is has some advantages. (incendiary ammo DOT applies after Actual_Weapon_Damage_Impact and thus can bypass shield gate mechanics - most relevant for 1 head shot kills )

-
Will bypass Target_ARMOR_DR adding some damage, potentially more than doubling the damage inflicted by weapons that inflict minimum_damage (it will still be very low damage) because of Target_ARMOR_DR (using a
higher base damage weapon would still be a better option)

- Can remove target shield//barrier allowing the actual weapon damage to remove health//armor in the same hit - potentially opening the door to ME2 style 1hit kills (most relevant to infiltrators using Widow/Javelin from cloak ... (In MP with the current lowered shield gate to 25% on gold/platinum using high level incediary to burn reamaining health is a better bet ..)

AmmoPowerMod is the % specified in the ammo power skill // consumable description (data mined tables) ...

AmmoResistanceBonusMultiplier for ammo powers is 0 or 1 (will apply damage vs specified defence type or not)

ResistanceBonusMultiplier Table for ammo powers
Vs Shield Barrier Armor Health
AP 0 0 1 1
Warp 0 1 1 1
Disruptor 1 1 0 1
Incendiary 0 0 1 1

Formatting.  BSN runs on some poor forum software.  The above was from peddroelmz.

Modifié par capn233, 11 mars 2013 - 04:24 .

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Last time I tried a Javelin V with the balance changes, I could not one-shot Centurians. This was with a Soldier using max Disruptor Ammo damage + max ammo power damage + Fortification with power damage, for a total of +108% shield damage. No health damage was dealt to the Centurian.

I would have to test this again to see.

Not sure how the Infiltrator would be different. Tactical Cloak damage does not apply to ammo powers, unless that has changed in the last patch (did not test). It looks like the multiplicative sniper damage bonus (+55%) is applied to ammo power damage, which does not make a lot of sense. I suppose this is supposed to be common knowledge, but What The --- ?

I haven't played a SP soldier in a long time, but how much passive power damage do they get?

capn233 wrote...

Infiltrator Rank 6 passive and the SR bonus of cloak do add to ammo damage.

I wouldn't say it is common knowledge... but it is known.

Ah, there we go.

Modifié par DJCS, 11 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[Athenau]

The infiltrator sniper damage boosts increase base damage, off which the ammo power damage is calculated.

The Widow can't oneshot most shielded opponents, though it does work on a couple of weaker enemies (geth rocket troopers come to mind). The Mantis is right out since even with the buff it does less damage than the pre-patch Widow.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

Athenau wrote...

The infiltrator sniper damage boosts increase base damage, off which the ammo power damage is calculated.

The Widow can't oneshot most shielded opponents, though it does work on a couple of weaker enemies (geth rocket troopers come to mind). The Mantis is right out since even with the buff it does less damage than the pre-patch Widow.

Ah, thank you.

[RaptorSolutions]

Heh, good that I revisit this thread. So I need fortification eh.

Edit: So do I need fortification? Or does barrier work too? I assume defense matrix doesn't work as its only 25%.

2nd Edit: So I would most likely need fortification as it does have the highest power damage bonus.

Modifié par RaptorSolutions, 11 mars 2013 - 05:50 .

[capn233]

RaptorSolutions wrote...

Heh, good that I revisit this thread. So I need fortification eh.

Edit: So do I need fortification? Or does barrier work too? I assume defense matrix doesn't work as its only 25%.

Fortification has the least cooldown penalty anyway.

[RaptorSolutions]

capn233 wrote...

RaptorSolutions wrote...

Heh, good that I revisit this thread. So I need fortification eh.

Edit: So do I need fortification? Or does barrier work too? I assume defense matrix doesn't work as its only 25%.

Fortification has the least cooldown penalty anyway.

Meh, when you have TC you probably won't need to worry too much. But per my second edit above it does give the most bonus power damage so it is ideal regardless.

Much appreciated, never knew about the different cd penalty thing.

Modifié par RaptorSolutions, 11 mars 2013 - 05:52 .

[Athenau]

I don't think Barrier works at all--at least I didn't see it buffing my ammo power damage in the squad screen when I tried it (it's probably for biotics only). The defense matrix power damage evolution iis for tech powers only, so Fortification is your only choice.

It's a pretty good one though. 30% DR, 30% power damage, for only a 20% CD penalty.

[capn233]

Yeah I was thinking that but I didn't bother to look it up.  DM pure tech and Barrier pure biotic.

Fortification is the only one with generic power damage.

As for the CD penalty, that was a MP balance change that appeared in SP after the latest patch. Tech Armor also has a reduced penalty now.

Modifié par capn233, 11 mars 2013 - 07:20 .

[RaptorSolutions]

I didn't even know there was a difference lol. Never paid attention in MP as well.

Sidenote: Can you reload cancel in SP and if so how? The Javelin is killing me as I hate the feel of not being able to RC lol.

[Athenau]

The nicest skill buff is the concussive shot one, IMO. Concussive shot is a _beast_ now, to the point where I want two squadmates with cshot just so that they can set off constant tech bursts and staggers on whoever I'm hosing down with disruptor ammo. Alas, I think Garrus is the only squaddie with cshot. I want Zaeed back. :-(

RaptorSolutions wrote...

I didn't even know there was a difference lol. Never paid attention in MP as well.

Sidenote: Can you reload cancel in SP and if so how? The Javelin is killing me as I hate the feel of not being able to RC lol.

Yeah, you can.  Both medigel canceling and empty grenade canceling work in SP too.  The only problem with medigel is that if you or your squaddies have taken health damage, it'll actually apply the medigel and play the animation.   Grenade canceling is more reliable.  On an infiltrator I basically spam stickies at the beginning of a fight until I'm out, then use the grenade button to cancel after that.

Modifié par Athenau, 11 mars 2013 - 07:28 .

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

The nicest skill buff is the concussive shot one, IMO. Concussive shot is a _beast_ now, to the point where I want two squadmates with cshot just so that they can set off constant tech bursts and staggers on whoever I'm hosing down with disruptor ammo. Alas, I think Garrus is the only squaddie with cshot. I want Zaeed back. :-(

Ash has CS.  And Inferno Grenades.  Fire Explosion city now.

Zaeed has CS in Armax Arena if you take him.  I can't remember if Grunt does, I think so.

Yeah, you can.  Both medigel canceling and empty grenade canceling work in SP too.  The only problem with medigel is that if you or your squaddies have taken health damage, it'll actually apply the medigel and play the animation.   Grenade canceling is more reliable.  On an infiltrator I basically spam stickies at the beginning of a fight until I'm out, then use the grenade button to cancel after that.

Yeah x2 on medigel.  And I think there is a glitch where the game pretends that you or your squad have damage when they don't... On Omega as my Infiltrator I burn 3 medigel in a row because it was pretending I didn't have full health.  That's when I decided I would go back to grenades.

Any animation reload cancels though.  So you can go in and out of cover.  Although that isn't as easy as pressing medigel in MP.

[Kronner]

Athenau wrote...

Yeah, you can.  Both medigel canceling and empty grenade canceling work in SP too.  The only problem with medigel is that if you or your squaddies have taken health damage, it'll actually apply the medigel and play the animation.   Grenade canceling is more reliable.  On an infiltrator I basically spam stickies at the beginning of a fight until I'm out, then use the grenade button to cancel after that.

Or you can give yourself bonus grenade power via gibbed save editor and map that power to a hotkey. Since there'll be no points in the power at all, you can reload cancel as if you were playing MP. Probably the best way to do it since it works on any class.

I also modded Coalesced.bin to make all weapons I like (so pretty much Claymore and Javelin lol) available in Spectre shop, so I do not have to play NG+/wait until Tuchanka/Quarians to enjoy these weapons.

Modifié par Kronner, 11 mars 2013 - 07:48 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Oops wrong forum.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 11 mars 2013 - 07:50 .

[TevinterMagister]

capn233 wrote...

Yeah I was thinking that but I didn't bother to look it up.  DM pure tech and Barrier pure biotic.

Fortification is the only one with generic power damage.

As for the CD penalty, that was a MP balance change that appeared in SP after the latest patch. Tech Armor also has a reduced penalty now.

Barrier boost both tech and biotics, it's Kaidan's power afterall, odd that ammo powers is not included. TA does boost ammo powers and I would assume Fortification follow the same rules.

[RedCaesar97]

capn233 wrote...

Yeah I was thinking that but I didn't bother to look it up.  DM pure tech and Barrier pure biotic.

Last I checked, Barrier damage bonus applies to Tech powers. It may also apply to combat powers as well, but it most definitely does not apply to ammo powers.

Edit: Maze of Torment beat me to it.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 11 mars 2013 - 08:08 .

[Kronner]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

capn233 wrote...

Yeah I was thinking that but I didn't bother to look it up.  DM pure tech and Barrier pure biotic.

Last I checked, Barrier damage bonus applies to Tech powers. It may also apply to combat powers as well, but it most definitely does not apply to ammo powers.

Yep, IIRC only Fortification improves ammo power %. But it's been a while.