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You're Right, Sis: The Illusive Man SHOULD'VE been the Catalyst for the Sake of the Plot


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#1
FlyinElk212

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You know what my favorite part is about playing video games with my older sister? While watching her flail around in-game is hilarious, ("Bro, I'm freaking out. What button do I push now, A??!" when the screen says, "Press A to Continue"), she gives critical perspective to storyline aspects I would've never considered.

One perspective she gave me occurred after meeting the Illusive Man for the second time."Man, bro, I can't wait to meet TIM in person. I bet he doesn't even exist, or he's a robot, or something. Watch him be the catalyst."

Which got me thinking: what if the Illusive Man was a robot, or something? More specifically, the Catalyst.

Here's the idea: TIM is the Catalyst, a synthetic AI that's been working to solve the problem of Organics vs. Synthetics. Every cycle he injects himself secretly within Organics in order to better understand them. He scours the galaxy looking for a solution, but recognizes that he himself is part of the problem. He deems the Reapers as a temporary solution to avoid the Galactic Singularity while preserving the organics of that cycle. The Reapers are a stall until he finds (through a Splinter Cell 3rd party like Cerberus) an organic being who understands and sympathizes with the plight of the galaxy, and is equipped to solve it.

Humanity's genetic diversity was harped on in ME2, and it's a quality that wasn't overlooked by TIM Catalyst in this cycle. Figuring humanity was the greatest chance of offering a being with the capacity to solve the galactic problem, TIM founded this cycle's Splinter Cell group Cerberus, gathering potential candidates as his successor under the guise of "Human Dominance". Eventually, he found his candidate: Shepard. TIM not only ensured Shep's survival/revival, but tested his willpower at every point, wanting to ensure that this being was hardy, understanding of the Synthetic/Organic plight, and equipped to make difficult decisions for the galaxy.

In the end, TIM reveals these intentions while offering Shepard Destroy and Control. TIM deems himself part of the problem and notes that Shepard has the ability to solve it, through either taking over TIM's pet project (Control) or ultimately destroying it and starting from scratch (Destroy). After deliberation, the two recognize that their individuals solutions (Destroy for Shep, Control for TIM), both have serious flaws, in which after collaboration they decide that another solution could be Synthesis through a methodology similar to the one TIM used to bring Shep back to life in ME2.

This is how making TIM the synthetic Catalyst would dramatically improve the storyline:

1.TIM's revival of Shepard in ME2 & his constant attempts to convince Shepard Control is the correct choice now has meaning.

2. Shepards choosing Control now have logical validation that doesn't conflict with the plot, in terms of Shepard's belief that Control is wrong and TIM needs to stop pursuing it.

3. TIM, a synthetic, is responsible for strife on Organics, harkening back to the Synthetic/Organic problem.

4. All of ME2's magical plot contrivance that TIM pulls out of his *** makes sense.

5. Humanity's genetic diversity now is significant within the plot.

6. Cerberus' seemingly unending supply of Army makes more sense, as do their actions in ME3 (some things on Horizon would need to change)

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So what do you guys think? Is my sister onto something, or should I tell her to "Press A to Continue"?

TL;DR- Making TIM the Catalyst would've validated everything about Cerberus, explained why TIM's so dang determined to get Shepard to believe in Control, reinforced the Synthetics vs. Organics plot of the game, and made the Catalyst less of an ***pull.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 11 mars 2013 - 04:49 .


#2
Luder09

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I think a Keeper would have made for an excellent Catalyst, it would have made at least a little more sense than what we got.

#3
Chashan

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As I said in your prior thread - technically was located just fine, really:

That actually was going through my head too, one of these days:

Why not employ this first-class (voice) actor and make_him_the voice and face of the enemy?

It would have been a mighty bit worthier than the immaterial waste of resources that the creature ends up being...



#4
Lieber

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....
Did she play ME2?

#5
Shaleist

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That idea >starbrat at least.

#6
Skullheart

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what if liara is the catalyst?

both of them are supermac most valuable posessions.

#7
Lieber

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Shaleist wrote...

That idea >starbrat at least.


Lore breaking idea [TIM as Catalyst] vs. ridiculous, horrible atrocity [StarChild].

I guess The Illusive Man would be cool as the Catalyst as it's a character we already know and his voice is awesome but it contradicts lots of things he said, and also contradicts things that are established in the lore (the comics explained his backstory for example).

Skullheart wrote...

what if liara is the catalyst?

both of them are supermac most valuable posessions.


That's cute, but Mac Walters didn't write Liara.

Modifié par Lieber, 11 mars 2013 - 04:26 .


#8
FlyinElk212

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Lieber wrote...

....
Did she play ME2?

Yep. She's kinda flightly. Like picture Brooks on Medigel, only not secretly an evil mastermind (that I know of......).

#9
Chashan

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Lieber wrote...

Shaleist wrote...

That idea >starbrat at least.


Lore breaking idea [TIM as Catalyst] vs. ridiculous, horrible atrocity [StarChild].

I guess The Illusive Man would be cool as the Catalyst as it's a character we already know and his voice is awesome but it contradicts lots of things he said, and also contradicts things that are established in the lore (the comics explained his backstory for example).


Whatever constitutes the AI 'assuming direct control' of TIM after he's shot one way or another as a way to have a mouthpiece would have gotten around that just fine.

#10
FlyinElk212

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Chashan wrote...

As I said in your prior thread - technically was located just fine, really:

That actually was going through my head too, one of these days:

Why not employ this first-class (voice) actor and make_him_the voice and face of the enemy?

It would have been a mighty bit worthier than the immaterial waste of resources that the creature ends up being...

For what it's worth, Mac and crew TRIED making TIM the face of the enemy in ME3.

Then they remembered the Reapers.

Lieber wrote...

Lore breaking idea [TIM as Catalyst] vs. ridiculous, horrible atrocity [StarChild].

I guess The Illusive Man would be cool as the Catalyst as it's a character we already know and his voice is awesome but it contradicts lots of things he said, and also contradicts things that are established in the lore (the comics explained his backstory for example).

Yeah, any ancillary material featuring TIM (comics & books) would have to be retconned TO PIECES. But that, plus the obvious changes in dialogue and interactions w/ TIM throughout the game, would be made to solidify and assuage other ***pulls from Cerberus' current existing plot.

#11
Skullheart

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Lieber wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

what if liara is the catalyst?

both of them are supermac most valuable posessions.


That's cute, but Mac Walters didn't write Liara.


Posessions =/= Creations.

And he decided Liara's role for ME2 and ME3. Not to mention that he wrote her in the prequel comic if ME2. starbrat and Liara are his waifu and son.

#12
WarGriffin

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Shepard should have been the Catalyst


Shepard was the Rouge Reaper all along!

#13
FlyinElk212

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WarGriffin wrote...

Shepard should have been the Catalyst


Shepard was the Rouge Reaper all along!

My God...

The Catalyst...IS PEOPLE!!

#14
FirstBlood XL

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FlyinElk212 wrote...

WarGriffin wrote...

Shepard should have been the Catalyst


Shepard was the Rouge Reaper all along!

My God...

The Catalyst...IS PEOPLE!!


Hehe...  I see what you did there.  I can only hope you were wearing an awesome neckerchief as you typed it.

Modifié par FirstBlood XL, 11 mars 2013 - 05:39 .


#15
Uncle Jo

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Even a toaster would have been a better catalyst.

#16
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*

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So the big villain we've been building up to turns out to be...the other main villain.

#17
WarGriffin

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Uncle Jo wrote...

Even a toaster would have been a better catalyst.


Boomer would indeed have been a better choice... I would have atleast felt bad about calling out her faulty logic.
http://i2.listal.com...-grace-park.jpg

#18
Tom Lehrer

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The use of the word illusive over elusive always seemed to me to be a hint at TIM being an AI. Would not have been surprised at a"The Illusionary Man" plot twist.

#19
Sejborg

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That would have created a plot hole. Read the TIM origin comic.

#20
Tom Lehrer

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Sejborg wrote...

That would have created a plot hole. Read the TIM origin comic.


Not necessarily. TIM could have easily had an AI copy of himself made to lead Cerberus in the event of his death. 

#21
NeonFlux117

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Interesting.

But I think Shepard is the true catalyst.

But I also think destroy is the only true ending.

In the original script that Drew wrote, the Catalyst was Javik. That acutally makes since.

But then Hudson and Walters had to put on their thinking caps and draft up a bunch of colors and silliness of the catalyst in the final product.

But I like the idea of TIM being the 'catalyst'

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 11 mars 2013 - 06:42 .


#22
kobayashi-maru

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I would have prerfered the Babylon 5 style, where the Catalyst wasn't connected to the crucible but was a metaphorical term for the leader who stood up in the cycle and became the catalyst for change and brought the galaxy together. Although I like your sisters idea maybe having TIM as the anticatalyst, order Vs chaos or good Vs evil.

Would have liked a better explanation for why Humanity was such a focus of Reapers though.

Modifié par kobayashi-maru, 11 mars 2013 - 06:51 .


#23
Cainhurst Crow

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Tom Lehrer wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

That would have created a plot hole. Read the TIM origin comic.


Not necessarily. TIM could have easily had an AI copy of himself made to lead Cerberus in the event of his death. 


So the illusive man has been alive for billions of years, but somehow this other person whose origins we see is also the illusive man, and the illusive man of this cycle creates an AI copy that is actually the real illusive man of the other cycles?

This is as bad as the ansem plot.

#24
FlyinElk212

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

That would have created a plot hole. Read the TIM origin comic.


Not necessarily. TIM could have easily had an AI copy of himself made to lead Cerberus in the event of his death. 


So the illusive man has been alive for billions of years, but somehow this other person whose origins we see is also the illusive man, and the illusive man of this cycle creates an AI copy that is actually the real illusive man of the other cycles?

This is as bad as the ansem plot.

SHEPARD, YOU ARE ONE OF THE 13 DARKNESSES, AND YOUR FRIEND GARRUS IS THE TRUE KEYBLADE MASTER.

No but seriously, for this to work, the comics and books would have to be retconned. No way around that, in my opinion.

#25
jds1bio

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When Shepard rides the space platform up to the Catalyst, the keepers should have all merged into a giant glowing keeper-being, a la The Dark Crystal.

Now I just realized Shepard forgot to ask Leviathan where the Keepers came from!