375 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

There's a fallacy here in assuming that just because every detail of the characters is created, every detail has to be there for a driven purpose. If you're making a movie, a character might have big lips just because the actress has big lips. But for a video game, the character can only have big lips if the modelers give her big lips.

The thing is, it's completely unavoidable. The characters don't exist unless they're made. If it was true, there would be no way for developers not to make a statement. So assuming that every detail is there to make a statement - to advertise, to attract teenage boys, to 'sexualize' characters - is silly.

Modifié par David7204, 12 mars 2013 - 03:16 .

[Obadiah]

I thought there was actually an in-game explanation for all the fit humans - something about diet, exercise, and gene therapy?

Modifié par Obadiah, 12 mars 2013 - 03:17 .

[EnvyTB075]

dversion wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

The FemTurian design is so atrocious to the point where i choose to ignore it and subsitute fan designs anyway. I like the vocals though.

It seemed fine to me. Why didn't you like it?

First off its based off the Human Female skeleton so that they didn't have to work as hard with the animations. Second the neck/skull structure is distinctly not turian. Where male Turians have this very nice and alien indistinction in a sense, their neck curves up into the face in an elegent manner, the Female variety have an incredibly boring and insultingly lazy human structure that looks all sorts of wrong with the Turian figure.

The eyes as well are also so incredibly different to the males that they may as well be a different species altogether, and its just dumb when designers will make the fairer sex so radically different for the sake of them being different. I don't like the extended mandible structure either as it just looks silly, plain and simple. How the hell would you lay down on a pillow with that going on (NOTE: assumption that sleeping habits are similar due to Femshep/Garrus romance)?

Couple of things i do like though are the thicker face plates, the slimmer body structure and the foot/toe structure. Very much proper in the sense of making a female version from the established male variety, and very much what I expected. However the neck/skull structure ruins it all due to the fact its the feature you see the most of. I don't have a problem with the lack of a fringe, but the way they handled it definately could have been done better.

Also the armour chest piece looks like a lemon.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 12 mars 2013 - 03:19 .

[dversion]

But it is there. They make a point of it in the art book, it's a conscious choice to embiggen all boobs. The artists write that they wanted to add more sex appeal to characters that already existed. It's a very conscious choice to sexualize every female in the cast which leads to Ashley being diminished as a character, Liara suddenly getting a boob-job for no reason and EDI...being whatever the hell EDI happened to be.

[CronoDragoon]

Envy makes a good point. If human facial structure varied that much between genders.....

[dversion]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

First off its based off the Human Female skeleton so that they didn't have to work as hard with the animations. Second the neck/skull structure is distinctly not turian. Where male Turians have this very nice and alien indistinction in a sense, their neck curves up into the face in an elegent manner, the Female variety have an incredibly boring and insultingly lazy human structure that looks all sorts of wrong with the Turian figure.

The eyes as well are also so incredibly different to the males that they may as well be a different species altogether, and its just dumb when designers will make the fairer sex so radically different for the sake of them being different. I don't like the extended mandible structure either as it just looks silly, plain and simple. How the hell would you lay down on a pillow with that going on (NOTE: assumption that sleeping habits are similar due to Femshep/Garrus romance)?

Couple of things i do like though are the thicker face plates, the slimmer body structure and the foot/toe structure. Very much proper in the sense of making a female version from the established male variety, and very much what I expected. However the neck/skull structure ruins it all due to the fact its the feature you see the most of. I don't have a problem with the lack of a fringe, but the way they handled it definately could have been done better.

Also the armour chest piece looks like a lemon.

That's... observant.
Hopefully they fix these issues when moving over to the new engine.

Modifié par dversion, 12 mars 2013 - 03:23 .

[EnvyTB075]

dversion wrote...

But it is there. They make a point of it in the art book, it's a conscious choice to embiggen all boobs. The artists write that they wanted to add more sex appeal to characters that already existed. It's a very conscious choice to sexualize every female in the cast which leads to Ashley being diminished as a character, Liara suddenly getting a boob-job for no reason and EDI...being whatever the hell EDI happened to be.

Not to mention the amount of Lesbian interactions compared to the number of gay interactions. I mean look at the dialogue between Traynor and EDI if you ****block Joker....

Its so heavily one sided one can't think it being unintentional.

dversion wrote...

That's... observant.
Hopefully they fix these issues when moving over to the new engine.

Doubt it, though i wish they would.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 12 mars 2013 - 03:23 .

[David7204]

Let me ask you a question. Should female characters be judged by their physical appearance?

Modifié par David7204, 12 mars 2013 - 03:23 .

[Zkyire]

Mr.House wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

The FemTurian design is so atrocious to the point where i choose to ignore it and subsitute fan designs anyway. I like the vocals though.

I like the female turian deisgn.

Same. Turians aren't supposed to be pretty*

*if that's what the problem is for you, if not, what is? Too similar?


Edit: nevermind, saw your post.

Modifié par Zkyire, 12 mars 2013 - 03:26 .

[EnvyTB075]

Zkyire wrote...

Same. Turians aren't supposed to be pretty*

*if that's what the problem is for you, if not, what is? Too similar?

Its got nothing to do with them being pretty, i like the Males already, its got everything to do with consistency.

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask you a question. Should female characters be judged by their physical appearance?

No they shouldn't, but thats no excuse for blatent touch ups to appeal to the straight alpha male mentality.

CronoDragoon wrote...

Envy makes a good point. If human facial structure varied that much between genders.....

It comes down to this really. Its like saying within the big cat species all males are Lions and all females are Ocelots. oh sure they share some traits but they sure as hell don't look like differing genders of the same species. Or and Eagle is the male and the Albatross is the female. Or hell, a Silverback is the male and a human is the female.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 12 mars 2013 - 03:33 .

[Obadiah]

Honestly, I don't really understand what happened to the female models in ME3. Its not like they're part of the advertising campaign - well, except for Miranda maybe. EDI's body was a surprise. Do the sexy men and women get more people to finish the game or something?

Maybe Bioware is trying to build a specific fan-base?

[Mr.House]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Same. Turians aren't supposed to be pretty*

*if that's what the problem is for you, if not, what is? Too similar?

Its got nothing to do with them being pretty, i like the Males already, its got everything to do with consistency.

There's no consistency errors.

[David7204]

I think EDI is beautiful. It kind of struck me when she pulled the ring out.

[dversion]

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask you a question. Should female characters be judged by their physical appearance?

I'm not answering because I know where this is going.
You seem to have valid points but are keen to miss my own and what exactly I'm debating and ignore any points I try and make.

It's honestly tiring.

I'm not saying characters shouldn't be attractive but there's a line between attractiveness and uncomfortable pandering.

[EnvyTB075]

Mr.House wrote...
There's no consistency errors.

Neck and skull structure/eyes.

Yes there are.

[CronoDragoon]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

It comes down to this really. Its like saying within the big cat species all males are Lions and all females are Ocelots. oh sure they share some traits but they sure as hell don't look like differing genders of the same species.

Well, it's not unprecedented for things like insects to have radical gender differences. I can't really think of large animals that do though.

Edit: Funnily enough, some birds do have big differences.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 mars 2013 - 03:34 .

[Mr.House]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
There's no consistency errors.

Neck and skull structure/eyes.

Yes there are.

What?




Don't see it, at all.

[David7204]

There are a few things I would cut down on, yes. I would cut some of the camera angles. (That first lingering camera shot on Benezia is pretty painful.) I would probably get rid of the heels, except for maybe Miranda. I might give Samara a slightly more conservative outfit.

But I would keep a lot of it. I would keep all of the characters looking the same as they do. I would keep EDI's body. I would keep the 'boob plates' on the female armor. I would keep the bodies for the female characters. I would keep Ashley's appearance in ME 3 and Jack's in ME 2.

Modifié par David7204, 12 mars 2013 - 03:36 .

[EnvyTB075]

Mr.House wrote...
What?
Don't see it, at all.

Of course you don't, you obviously chose a face on view to avoid the neck issue, so lets have a look at a side profile.





And suddenly, the neck structure as plain as day.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 12 mars 2013 - 03:42 .

[dversion]

David7204 wrote...

There are a few things I would cut down on, yes. I would cut some of the camera angles. (That first lingering camera shot on Benezia is pretty painful.) I would probably get rid of the heels, except for maybe Miranda. I might give Samara a slightly more conservative outfit.

But I would keep a lot of it. I would keep all of the characters looking the same as they do. I would keep EDI's body. I would keep the 'boob plates' on the female armor. I would keep the bodies for the female characters. I would keep Ashley's appearance in ME 3 and Jack's in ME 2.

See? you too find it a bit uncomfortable. I forgot the battle heels.
I disagree on Ashley, I found it disresepctful to the character and unjustified. There didn't seem to be reason to add sex appeal other than guys who didn't play ME1 or 2 are going to see that character and want to play more.

[Mr.House]

All I see is male turian have thicker, shorter necks and females have skinner and longer necks. This is not an issue.

[MegaSovereign]

@Envy

It could just be a gender difference. I don't see it as a lore inconsistency issue.

[EnvyTB075]

Mr.House wrote...

All I see is male turian have thicker, shorter necks and females have skinner and longer necks.

Of course you do, its hard to see evidence when you're neck deep in the sea of denial.

MegaSovereign wrote...

@Envy

It could just be a gender difference. I don't see it as a lore inconsistency issue.

I've already covered the gender difference, differing genders don't account for dramatic differences in bone structure.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 12 mars 2013 - 03:45 .

[David7204]

If Ashley and Liara have bigger chests then before, I can't really tell in the game. I wouldn't know at all if I didn't spend time here and didn't hear quotes from the art book.

She looks better. She does. And I appreciate that. I've never romanced her in ME 3 and don't intend to anytime soon, but I appreciate it nonetheless. Her attractiveness is attractive. It's a compelling part of her character, and I'm glad it's there. Same with Jack. Same with EDI.

Modifié par David7204, 12 mars 2013 - 03:45 .

[Mr.House]

MegaSovereign wrote...

@Envy

It could just be a gender difference. I don't see it as a lore inconsistency issue.

It is a gender diffrence. Cabal and Nyreen are not males, it's not an issue.