375 réponses à ce sujet

[dversion]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Seven Months ago, Random Jerkface wrote...

Assuming that the average ME fan is too thick to pick up the difference between male and female voices, sexual dimorphism in this context would be quite hard to miss. The salarians, for example, are amphibious organisms that lay large clutches of eggs at a time. Since they are an r-selected species, female members are likely to be significantly larger than the males are to accommodate the strain of brooding (this could also apply to the krogan). Drell are reptilian, so perhaps drell women are generally of subdued colour, are thinner and taller, and lack a dewlap. Turians are based on birds of prey, so it's unlikely the males would be significantly larger than females, but ramping down the head fringe (or mandibles) is more than sufficient to indicate sex. There's no need to add ****** and lipstick. It's not that hard.

I was actually dissapointed when the female krogan wasn't like 1.5 times larger than wrex.

[RedBeardJim]

David7204 wrote...

RedBeardJim wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. You're the ones who aren't addressing.

All you've done is lay out this trope 'male default' and make claims that it's 'inherently sexist.' That I and everyone else should just assume it's horrible because men and women are treated differently. You've continually used 'sexist' as an implied insult. You've given me zero reasoning or evidence. All I've seen is that 'It's sexist, so it's bad.'

So I provided a example of men and women being treated differently, and yet it's an example accepted and approved by all of us. Thus, the fact that men and women are treated differently is clearly not the core issue here, is it? Otherwise, it would be a problem for both examples, not just the first one, wouldn't it?

Your example, of you finding females attractive and not males, has, again, absolutely nothing to do with the viewpoint (which, again, you stated as being "absolutely true") of males being seen as "default" while females are seen as "special". The one is your personal sexual preference, which is irrelevant to the discussion. The other is a pervasive societal viewpoint that devalues half the population in favor of the other half. That is a sexist, and harmful, viewpoint.

But congratulations on derailing the thread, I guess?

You are really going to tell me with a straight face that being sexually attracted to one sex and not the other is not 'pervasive' throughout society?

No, I'm going to tell you that it has nothing to do with sexism.

[David7204]

Is that right? Treating males and females differently has nothing to do with sexism?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That wasn't in response to the original post. It was in response to several people saying that the norm of 'male default' is sexist and needs to be removed.

It is, and does. 

Malicious or not, intentional or not, it's still sexist and deserves to be changed.

QFT

It is one of the reasons, except for a few games, most of the time I just play shooters. I'd rather not. But at least shooters are just about shooting. Forget the story mode.

[SiriusXI]

David7204 wrote...

Or maybe it's just facts being facts?

It's absolutely true. Male is considered default. Female is considered special.

And that is exactly what sexism is about.

Sexism is real. It exists in real life. Considering male default this is sexist. Whether in RL or in a piece of medium does not matter. it is still sexist.

[RedBeardJim]

David7204 wrote...

Is that right? Treating males and females differently has nothing to do with sexism?

No, being attracted to females and not males, or for that matter to males and not females, or somewhat more to one than the other, has nothing to do with sexism.

[David7204]

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

And wrong again. You know what that 'viewpoint' does have everything to do with? Whether sexism is inherently a bad thing. Because if it isn't, then your arguments that 'male default' is bad simply because it's sexist fall apart.

Well, consider his arguments sturdy then.

Unless you're going to argue that discrimination and prejudice are positive forces in our society. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 mars 2013 - 11:06 .

[ConanTheLeader]

Where are the female hanar/elcor/volus? Also did female salarians and krogan get introduced in the third game?

[RedBeardJim]

ConanTheLeader wrote...

Where are the female hanar/elcor/volus? Also did female salarians and krogan get introduced in the third game?

For all we know, we're seeing female hanar/volus/elcor all the time.

Female salarians got introduced in the second game, if you killed the Council in ME1.

[dversion]

ConanTheLeader wrote...

Where are the female hanar/elcor/volus? Also did female salarians and krogan get introduced in the third game?

Nowhere. And yeah as a sort of "here you go, have some females."

[IC-07]

RedBeardJim wrote...

ConanTheLeader wrote...

Where are the female hanar/elcor/volus? Also did female salarians and krogan get introduced in the third game?

For all we know, we're seeing female hanar/volus/elcor all the time.

Female salarians got introduced in the second game, if you killed the Council in ME1.

Killing for females... Fascinating!

[andy6915]

Since this thread is already nuts, I want to take this moment to link to a Youtube channel that might teach some things to people about gender issues and the real facts about male and female roles in society. Maybe get that person a few new subscribers. Just keep an open mind when you watch her vids.

http://www.youtube.c...ture=g-user-lik

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

So you're impying that the idea of gender is inherently wrong then? 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 mars 2013 - 11:14 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

dversion wrote...

ConanTheLeader wrote...

Where are the female hanar/elcor/volus? Also did female salarians and krogan get introduced in the third game?

Nowhere. And yeah as a sort of "here you go, have some females."

More like, "Oh crap, I guess we have no choice now."

They'd already written that salarian leaders are female and they couldn't get through the genophage plot without finally having a female krogan.

[David7204]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

So you're impying that the idea of sexuality is inherently wrong then? 

Oh no, not me. You are. If sexuality is inherent based on discrimination, and discrimination is inherently wrong, then sexuality must be inherently wrong. Right? 

And if not, then where's the disconnect?

Modifié par David7204, 11 mars 2013 - 11:16 .

[SiriusXI]

David7204 wrote...

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

I really suggest you think this through before posting again. A person (male or female) having relationships with exclusively women e.g., is not discriminating women. It is just the sexual preference of that person.


A prejudice is an assumption (positive or negative) that you make about a person (e.g. woman), by identifying them with a certain group (e.g. women), and believing that this group (e.g. women) share some core traits (e.g. very emotional).

Discrimination means treating someone in an inappropriate way as a result of said prejudices. Sally is a women, therefore she belongs to the group of women, therefore she is very emotional, therefore she is not suited for leadership positions --> "Sally, you really should't go into politics. Why don't you just marry a nice man and become a mother? Maybe you can work part time...." --> THIS is discrimination.

Modifié par SiriusXI, 11 mars 2013 - 11:22 .

[dversion]

David7204 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

So you're impying that the idea of sexuality is inherently wrong then? 

Oh no, not me. You are. If sexuality is inherent based on discrimination, and discrimination is inherently wrong, then sexuality must be inherently wrong. Right? 

And if not, then where's the disconnect?

Okay to maybe get this damn thing back on track let me just state this.
We all have biases on how we view men and women, this in its self isn't really an issue so much.
It's when these biases go unchecked and we lose the ability to critique our own view points and take all of our constructed biases as fact are we in danger of being 'sexist'

Males are not the default anything. Saying so doesn't even begin to make any sort of sense. It's like saying the number '7' is the default number.

This patriarchal view of the universe made Mass Effect seem half-finished and really male-centric and took me out of the experience and the world. To rethink these ideas and include more varying characters can only strengthen the game next time around.

[David7204]

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

So you're impying that the idea of sexuality is inherently wrong then? 

Oh no, not me. You are. If sexuality is inherent based on discrimination, and discrimination is inherently wrong, then sexuality must be inherently wrong. Right? 

And if not, then where's the disconnect?

Okay to maybe get this damn thing back on track let me just state this.
We all have biases on how we view men and women, this in its self isn't really an issue so much.
It's when these biases go unchecked and we lose the ability to critique our own view points and take all of our constructed biases as fact are we in danger of being 'sexist'

Males are not the default anything. Saying so doesn't even begin to make any sort of sense. It's like saying the number '7' is the default number.

This patriarchal view of the universe made Mass Effect seem half-finished and really male-centric and took me out of the experience and the world. To rethink these ideas and include more varying characters can only strengthen the game next time around.

Now see, saying 'it doesn't even begin to make sense' is just silly. This is not a modern thing. This is a concept that's older than dirt and can be found across numerous societies all over the world. You're not even attempting to understand the reasons behind such a phenomanoa or acknowledging that reasons do in fact exist in the first place. You don't have to like those reasons. But you should understand them.

Modifié par David7204, 11 mars 2013 - 11:41 .

[David7204]

SiriusXI wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's interesting. Because the very first line in the Wikipedia entry defines sexism as "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex."

And it sounds to me that having romantic relationships exclusively with females, for example, is absolutely discriminating based on a person's sex.

I really suggest you think this through before posting again. A person (male or female) having relationships with exclusively women e.g., is not discriminating women. It is just the sexual preference of that person.


A prejudice is an assumption (positive or negative) that you make about a person (e.g. woman), by identifying them with a certain group (e.g. women), and believing that this group (e.g. women) share some core traits (e.g. very emotional).

Discrimination means treating someone in an inappropriate way as a result of said prejudices. Sally is a women, therefore she belongs to the group of women, therefore she is very emotional, therefore she is not suited for leadership positions --> "Sally, you really should't go into politics. Why don't you just marry a nice man and become a mother? Maybe you can work part time...." --> THIS is discrimination.

No, this is just you cherry-picking when you want the word 'discrimination' to apply and when you don't. You don't get to do that.

The word itself is irrelevant. What's important is the concept of treating men and women differently based on their sex and nothing else. And that is absolutely what occurs when people choose romantic relationships based on a person's sex. It's not 'just' a sexual preference any more than male default is 'just' a feature of language.

Modifié par David7204, 11 mars 2013 - 11:46 .

[Zkyire]

First world problems.

First world problems everywhere.

[dversion]

Zkyire wrote...

First world problems.

First world problems everywhere.

Well you're on a forum for a videogame, I don't think you're going to find many topics on the subject of clean water in developing nations.

[Steelcan]

*reads thread*

Why is anyone taking David7204 seriously?

[dversion]

Steelcan wrote...

*reads thread*

Why is anyone taking David7204 seriously?

I...umm.. I don't know.