375 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Yes, that is exactly what people are arguing. There has not been a single argument in this entire thread that explains, WHY, exactly, male default language is so bad other than 'it's sexist.' Or 'it's discrimination.'

If the idea that male default language is bad isn't based on that, then what exactly is it based on? Why is it bad? Do you have anything to say that isn't a variation of 'it's sexist, so it's bad'?

Alright I'm going to assume you never actually read any of my responses and just assumed what I was argueing.

So, for like the fifth god damn time:
It makes the universe of Mass Effect feel weaker, incomplete and a bit dull when the majority of the people you're dealing with are from one gender.

This is the last time I'm going to write this for you.

Did you read what I said? I wasn't talking about females appearing in games. I think it's obvious any game would will be more realistic when you have both males and females. I was talking about male-default language.

[lyssalu]

Zkyire wrote...

He's off-target, but a lot of you guys are just acting like dicks.

oh silly me

you're right, we should all pack up and let him say more offensive things about women

because that's "off target", where as humiliating him for being oppressive is "being a dick"

[lyssalu]

dversion wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

david are you crying yet

can i jar your pressed man tears

You're actually NOT helping things believe it or not.

are you

[dversion]

David7204 wrote...

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Yes, that is exactly what people are arguing. There has not been a single argument in this entire thread that explains, WHY, exactly, male default language is so bad other than 'it's sexist.' Or 'it's discrimination.'

If the idea that male default language is bad isn't based on that, then what exactly is it based on? Why is it bad? Do you have anything to say that isn't a variation of 'it's sexist, so it's bad'?

Alright I'm going to assume you never actually read any of my responses and just assumed what I was argueing.

So, for like the fifth god damn time:
It makes the universe of Mass Effect feel weaker, incomplete and a bit dull when the majority of the people you're dealing with are from one gender.

This is the last time I'm going to write this for you.

Did you read what I said? I wasn't talking about females appearing in games. I think it's obvious any game would will be more realistic when you have both males and females. I was talking about male-default language.

Well in the context of writing stories it results in what I said. If you're going to take that viewpoint into the real world you'll find it incorrect and potentially harmful.

For instance if you think women should just be nurses or secretaries you should ask yourself if there's any actual real world justifications for being a jerk or are you just being a jerk?

[The Heretic of Time]

Dude David just stop with the whole "male default language" nonsense. It's bullsh*t and you know it.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 12 mars 2013 - 12:24 .

[Zkyire]

lyssalu wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

He's off-target, but a lot of you guys are just acting like dicks.

oh silly me

you're right, we should all pack up and let him say more offensive things about women

because that's "off target", where as humiliating him for being oppressive is "being a dick"

Giving his opinion is not oppressing anybody.

And you're humiliating nobody. You are however ganging up on him intentionally and repeatedly taunting him is acting like a dick.

Continue if you wish, I'm not posting in this thread anymore.

Modifié par Zkyire, 12 mars 2013 - 12:25 .

[ruggly]

What on God's green earth did I just read?

[lyssalu]

Zkyire wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

He's off-target, but a lot of you guys are just acting like dicks.

oh silly me

you're right, we should all pack up and let him say more offensive things about women

because that's "off target", where as humiliating him for being oppressive is "being a dick"

Giving his opinion is not oppressing anybody.

And you're humiliating nobody. You are however ganging up on him intentionally and repeatedly taunting him is acting like a dick.

you're really simple

default-male language is the norm because ~people like dave~ are there to justify and uphold it

so yeah, he's contributing to an oppressive, patriarchal norm

and i'll bet you anything this boy's cheeks are burning 

[David7204]

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Yes, that is exactly what people are arguing. There has not been a single argument in this entire thread that explains, WHY, exactly, male default language is so bad other than 'it's sexist.' Or 'it's discrimination.'

If the idea that male default language is bad isn't based on that, then what exactly is it based on? Why is it bad? Do you have anything to say that isn't a variation of 'it's sexist, so it's bad'?

Alright I'm going to assume you never actually read any of my responses and just assumed what I was argueing.

So, for like the fifth god damn time:
It makes the universe of Mass Effect feel weaker, incomplete and a bit dull when the majority of the people you're dealing with are from one gender.

This is the last time I'm going to write this for you.

Did you read what I said? I wasn't talking about females appearing in games. I think it's obvious any game would will be more realistic when you have both males and females. I was talking about male-default language.

Well in the context of writing stories it results in what I said. If you're going to take that viewpoint into the real world you'll find it incorrect and potentially harmful.

For instance if you think women should just be nurses or secretaries you should ask yourself if there's any actual real world justifications for being a jerk or are you just being a jerk?

Do you understand the difference being acknowledging (not condoning, but acknowledging) that some positions are associated with men and some with women, and saying that "Women are stupid, so they should all stay in the kitchen?"

Because there is a tremendous difference. I assure you.

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

Yes, that is exactly what people are arguing. There has not been a single argument in this entire thread that explains, WHY, exactly, male default language is so bad other than 'it's sexist.' Or 'it's discrimination.'

If the idea that male default language is bad isn't based on that, then what exactly is it based on? Why is it bad? Do you have anything to say that isn't a variation of 'it's sexist, so it's bad'?

This is all assuming 'sexism' does not mean treating men or women worse. Just differently.

Eh, sexism is treating men and women worse. That's a point I've already made but you ignored it, so... yeah. 

It's kinda pointless to continue this line of argument unless you're looking for a more in-depth summary explaining why sexism is bad. I hope that's not required. 

[lyssalu]

David7204 wrote...

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

dversion wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Yes, that is exactly what people are arguing. There has not been a single argument in this entire thread that explains, WHY, exactly, male default language is so bad other than 'it's sexist.' Or 'it's discrimination.'

If the idea that male default language is bad isn't based on that, then what exactly is it based on? Why is it bad? Do you have anything to say that isn't a variation of 'it's sexist, so it's bad'?

Alright I'm going to assume you never actually read any of my responses and just assumed what I was argueing.

So, for like the fifth god damn time:
It makes the universe of Mass Effect feel weaker, incomplete and a bit dull when the majority of the people you're dealing with are from one gender.

This is the last time I'm going to write this for you.

Did you read what I said? I wasn't talking about females appearing in games. I think it's obvious any game would will be more realistic when you have both males and females. I was talking about male-default language.

Well in the context of writing stories it results in what I said. If you're going to take that viewpoint into the real world you'll find it incorrect and potentially harmful.

For instance if you think women should just be nurses or secretaries you should ask yourself if there's any actual real world justifications for being a jerk or are you just being a jerk?

Do you understand the difference being acknowledging (not condoning, but acknowledging) that some positions are associated with men and some with women, and saying that "Women are stupid, so they should all stay in the kitchen?"

Because there is a tremendous difference. I assure you.

yeah, one of them is simply a more recent brand of sexism

[Village_Idiot]

You know no matter who wins this argument, everyone loses.

[dversion]

So then... what are you arguing?

[David7204]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dude David just stop with the whole "male default language" nonsense. It's bullsh*t and you know it.

The existence of such language is beyond debate. There's absolutely no dispute that we use words like 'mankind' to refer to everyone, men and women. The debate is whether words like 'mankind' are harmful or not.

[David7204]

All that I'm arguing is that men and women being treated differently, including within language, is not inherently bad. That's it. Yes, it certainly can be bad and often is. But it isn't necessarily. And therefore you can't automatically say something is bad solely because men and women are treated differently with no other reasoning or evidence.

Modifié par David7204, 12 mars 2013 - 12:35 .

[NeonFlux117]

You can play as femshep. Shepard by default is the most bad ass being in the galaxy and can be male or female. Nuff said.

[dversion]

David7204 wrote...

All that I'm arguing is that men and women being treated differently, including within language, is not inherently bad. That's it. Yes, it certainly can be and often is. But not necessarily so. And therefore you can't automatically say something is bad because men and women are treated differently with no other reasoning or evidence.

But...no one said you had to treat men and women exactly the same. This again is not an arguement anyone made. This isn't about language it's about having a stronger universe and more diverse characters.

I beg you... beeeeeeeeeggg yoooou not to say this again.

[lyssalu]

David7204 wrote...

All that I'm arguing is that men and women being treated differently, including within language, is not inherently bad. That's it. Yes, it certainly can be bad and often is. But it isn't necessarily. And therefore you can't automatically say something is bad solely because men and women are treated differently with no other reasoning or evidence.

within the context of this thread, how is men being default in the game unharmful and what the **** is your ****ing point?

[lyssalu]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

You can play as femshep. Shepard by default is the most bad ass being in the galaxy and can be male or female. Nuff said.

default shep is a man, 

[David7204]

So we can all agree on that, then? That treating men and women differently is not inherently bad?

[Masha Potato]

What is even going on here

[NeonFlux117]

lyssalu wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

You can play as femshep. Shepard by default is the most bad ass being in the galaxy and can be male or female. Nuff said.

default shep is a man, 

So what? You can play as femshep and it's amazing to play as femshep, Hale does an incredible Job. I've played both and don't really get what all the negative nancy's are complaining about. The female krogan is obvously the wisest Krogan. The asari- most powerful race in the galaxy are all female. Some of the best characters of ME are female: Jack, Liara, Miri, EDI, Tali. Their all female and are really cool. 


some people just love to b!tch. 

[dversion]

The issue is that it's limiting. It's limiting the stories you can tell and the experiences you can have.

In the real world, having a male-focused view of the world limits how society utilizes, in a word, women. By making them feel like they're place is in the kitchen instead of the laboratory or the book...writing..*ahem* room... we lose out as a whole.

In mass effect, because the writers were male we lost out on a more complete world and possibly interesting stories.

[lyssalu]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

You can play as femshep. Shepard by default is the most bad ass being in the galaxy and can be male or female. Nuff said.

default shep is a man, 

So what? You can play as femshep and it's amazing to play as femshep, Hale does an incredible Job. I've played both and don't really get what all the negative nancy's are complaining about. The female krogan is obvously the wisest Krogan. The asari- most powerful race in the galaxy are all female. Some of the best characters of ME are female: Jack, Liara, Miri, EDI, Tali. Their all female and are really cool. 


some people just love to b!tch. 

those amazing female characters are also only there because manshep or his bro can bang them so

[AuraLancer]

Back on topic, do Vorcha even have genders? Doesn't the codex say they are most similar to worms?