243 réponses à ce sujet

[Kais Endac]

klarabella wrote...

Hard to place the lorebreakers Shepard and Miranda. It's clear Shepard is supposed to be above 3 but the especially special circumstances that make it possible for Shepard to have L3s instead of L2s, avoid BAaT AND, of course, still outpower the L2s without setbacks, make me roll my eyes. As far as I'm concerned Shepard is not a biotic. Not to mention the super duper L5 implants that completely screw over lore for more awesome. It's also clear that Miranda is supposed to be around 3 but she was genetically engineered to be an awesome biotic before biotics were even discovered. I'm not sure making her body retroactively develop eezo nodules is possible and backed up by the biotics lore.

Shepards intial exposure isn't really an issue, its when the abilties started to manifest or where detected that would determine what impant he received. Although that would be mean he recieved his impants at a time later than most human biotics.

As for the power behind the L3 and the L5 all I can really say is its commander shepard, half the things he's done suggest he's not your average soldier. So I've always just believed that he is well.......special.

I think though that bioware didn't leave themsleves enough time between first contact, the subsequent discoveries made and the first game meaning that there are cases where things that have been implemented that break the lore.

Miranda is odd though considering she is what 35 in mass effect 2, and the first exposure happened one year after she was born. So either Henry Lawson had prior knowlege and an 8 year advantage on the alliance who only discovered the potential of biotics in 2158 or.......someone messed up.

Modifié par Kais Endac, 12 mars 2013 - 06:55 .

[Tom Lehrer]

klarabella wrote...
Hard to place the lorebreakers Shepard and Miranda. It's clear Shepard is supposed to be above 3 but the especially special circumstances that make it possible for Shepard to have L3s instead of L2s, avoid BAaT AND, of course, still outpower the L2s without setbacks, make me roll my eyes. As far as I'm concerned Shepard is not a biotic. Not to mention the super duper L5 implants that completely screw over lore for more awesome. It's also clear that Miranda is supposed to be around 3 but she was genetically engineered to be an awesome biotic before biotics were even discovered. I'm not sure making her body retroactively develop eezo nodules is possible and backed up by the biotics lore.

I'm with you on the Miranda thing. The timelines don't add up.

Shepard has a number of justifications for not having been sent to BAaT depending on the chosen background since the kids there were sent by their parents. The new L5s are also not out of question, it makes since that as Human understanding of biotics grow so too would the power of the amps they make. 

[arial]

shepard1038 wrote...

The students of Grissom academy use an L3x1 implant. Only biotic Shepard has L5 implants.

No, Jack uses L5x. implants

[andy6915]

Arial, you're wrong. She DOES use L3X1 implants.

http://masseffect.wi...Broker_Terminal

"Call from Kahlee Sanders to Jack

Jack: Hey Sanders. Checking on the kids?

Sanders: How are they, Jack?

Jack: They'll do good. This gonna be long? I kinda got crap to do.

Sanders: I wanted to tell you, I persuaded some Alliance friends to part with that biotic-amp you and the children were testing at Grissom. You can pick it up on the Citadel.

Jack: Damn! One of the L3-X1s? You know how much **** I could tear up with one of those installed?

Sanders: I had an idea. Look after yourself.

Jack: Yeah, yeah... and hey. Thanks."


I actually think that the continuity of the amps people use in the series is a bit all over the place. I once made a thread about it-

http://social.biowar...ndex/13069585/1 (only a single page, give a quick read-through if you want as it won't take long at all)

It was pretty much decided that the L5n and L5x implants are probably Cerberus designed implants while the L3-X1's are Alliance designed. From Jack's reaction, I assume the L3-X1's are better then the one she used in ME2.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 mars 2013 - 09:13 .

[Gerudan]

Well, you can build L5s for Jack in ME2, but I don't think the game recognises this for ME3. 

Modifié par Gerudan, 12 mars 2013 - 09:09 .

[arial]

andy69156915 wrote...

Arial, you're wrong. She DOES use L3X1 implants.

http://masseffect.wi...Broker_Terminal

"Call from Kahlee Sanders to Jack

Jack: Hey Sanders. Checking on the kids?

Sanders: How are they, Jack?

Jack: They'll do good. This gonna be long? I kinda got crap to do.

Sanders: I wanted to tell you, I persuaded some Alliance friends to part with that biotic-amp you and the children were testing at Grissom. You can pick it up on the Citadel.

Jack: Damn! One of the L3-X1s? You know how much **** I could tear up with one of those installed?

Sanders: I had an idea. Look after yourself.

Jack: Yeah, yeah... and hey. Thanks."

talk to Jack in her hidey hole and ask about Upgrades "well, I have the schematics for L5x implants", and useing that upgrade increases her biotic output.

Thus, Jack uses L5x
that call you are quoteing only implies Jack used L3s at one point.

she says, how much I "could" not how much i "can". thus she had L3s at one point, but then upgraded to the L5x

[andy6915]

That quote is from ME3, which is obviously AFTER ME2. Meaning she switched from her ME2 implants (L5x) to the L3-X1's in between ME2 and meeting her in ME3, and is really happy with the upgrade from the sounds of it.

You're not making sense, Arial.

[LDStaredown]

Vega.

[nos_astra]

andy69156915 wrote...
It was pretty much decided that the L5n and L5x implants are probably Cerberus designed implants while the L3-X1's are Alliance designed. From Jack's reaction, I assume the L3-X1's are better then the one she used in ME2.

I thought you don't switch implants. It requires brain surgery and is rarely done because of the high risks. You certainly don't switch them twice.

This reads like even Bioware got confused themselves and mistook amps for implants or something.

Modifié par klarabella, 12 mars 2013 - 09:22 .

[arial]

andy69156915 wrote...

That quote is from ME3, which is obviously AFTER ME2. Meaning she switched from her ME2 implants (L5x) to the L3-X1's in between ME2 and meeting her in ME3, and is really happy with the upgrade from the sounds of it.

You're not making sense, Arial.

no, that would be "Do you know how much i CAN" but she said "Could".

If i was talking about my Ford f-150, i would say "Do you know the roads i CAN take that thing on"., but then if i got in an accident and it was a write off i would say "you know the roads i COULD take on that thing".

you assume to be confusing "can" with "Could",

can: meaning I have the ability to do it
Could: meaning I would be able to do it, if I had the object present

[Skullheart]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

I'm with you on the Miranda thing. The timelines don't add up.

The timelines is correct, however many of the Miranda fans simple headcannon that Miranda is an artificial biotic. She was "born" before humanity discovered the biotic potential and made the connection of those powers with eezo exposition. So miranda wasn't exposed to eezo before borning.

There is a krogan procedure to implant eezo nodules inside krogans, however this surgery has the high risk of killing the patient (yeah, krogan are in dsnger of dying because this procedure). We know how ruthless Miranda's father is, so he might not have doubted about doing the krogan procecure to Miranda. She survived the operation thanks to her genetic tailoring (her body can resist more than a regular human) and now she's an incredible biotic. A quote to support this is "the intelligence, the looks, even the biotics. He paid for all that."

[Skullheart]

arial wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Arial, you're wrong. She DOES use L3X1 implants.

http://masseffect.wi...Broker_Terminal

"Call from Kahlee Sanders to Jack

Jack: Hey Sanders. Checking on the kids?

Sanders: How are they, Jack?

Jack: They'll do good. This gonna be long? I kinda got crap to do.

Sanders: I wanted to tell you, I persuaded some Alliance friends to part with that biotic-amp you and the children were testing at Grissom. You can pick it up on the Citadel.

Jack: Damn! One of the L3-X1s? You know how much **** I could tear up with one of those installed?

Sanders: I had an idea. Look after yourself.

Jack: Yeah, yeah... and hey. Thanks."

talk to Jack in her hidey hole and ask about Upgrades "well, I have the schematics for L5x implants", and useing that upgrade increases her biotic output.

Thus, Jack uses L5x
that call you are quoteing only implies Jack used L3s at one point.

she says, how much I "could" not how much i "can". thus she had L3s at one point, but then upgraded to the L5x

Pay attention to Kahlee mail. It says biotic AMP, not implant. Those are totally different things. The implants can only be upgraded with surgery. The amps are just an equipment item (remember ME1?).

[andy6915]

Yeah, Sanders' says "amp" not "implant", yet amps are things that you hook into your existing implant like Savant X's from ME1 or something (example: you hook your Savant X amp into your L3 implant in ME1, that is how amp switching works). So either things like L5x and L3-X1's are actually amps and not implants like the fluff writing at the class selection says they are, or Jack somehow is wired for a bunch of different types of implants and can equip just about any type without surgery. That or the L3-X1's and Cerberus L5's all use the same basic wiring and so don't need to you "go under the knife" to switch to them (would make sense, needing surgery every time someone wanted an upgrade is quite annoying, and human implant makers would want that restriction removed).

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 mars 2013 - 09:36 .

[arial]

Skullheart wrote...

arial wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Arial, you're wrong. She DOES use L3X1 implants.

http://masseffect.wi...Broker_Terminal

"Call from Kahlee Sanders to Jack

Jack: Hey Sanders. Checking on the kids?

Sanders: How are they, Jack?

Jack: They'll do good. This gonna be long? I kinda got crap to do.

Sanders: I wanted to tell you, I persuaded some Alliance friends to part with that biotic-amp you and the children were testing at Grissom. You can pick it up on the Citadel.

Jack: Damn! One of the L3-X1s? You know how much **** I could tear up with one of those installed?

Sanders: I had an idea. Look after yourself.

Jack: Yeah, yeah... and hey. Thanks."

talk to Jack in her hidey hole and ask about Upgrades "well, I have the schematics for L5x implants", and useing that upgrade increases her biotic output.

Thus, Jack uses L5x
that call you are quoteing only implies Jack used L3s at one point.

she says, how much I "could" not how much i "can". thus she had L3s at one point, but then upgraded to the L5x

Pay attention to Kahlee mail. It says biotic AMP, not implant. Those are totally different things. The implants can only be upgraded with surgery. The amps are just an equipment item (remember ME1?).

either way, jack is an L5x

[andy6915]

Is she, Arial? It's supposed to take surgery to switch, yet she switches from whatever she was wired to in Purgatory to the new L5X right then and there when you research the upgrade. So again, either they were made with ease of switching in mind which the L2's and L3's weren't, Jack has been wired to pretty much every configuration of implant there is, or the L5X is actually an amp and not an implant like we think.

[o Ventus]

andy69156915 wrote...

You kind of proved my point. Adept Shepard has the technically hardest biotic ability in the lore, while vanguard Shepard has a much more direct and brutal biotic power (charge). That sounds exactly like what I said, adept is skilled and precise but slightly weaker, vanguard is rough and raw but slightly stronger. Just like how a lot of people see Jack and Samara. Samara has the intense training and skill and control, Jack has the raw power but less control and skill. Singularity is technical and is about controlling your enemies, charge is all about directly damaging enemies... The respective class powers is where I get this perspective from. Vanguard is power and is simpler, adept is control and is a more "thinking" class then vanguard.

It would will take a certain amount of raw power to conjure a miniature black hole.

Probably more than it would for a charge.

There's a reason the Adept is listed as the biotic specialist and Vanguard as the biotically amplified soldier.

[andy6915]

It also takes a certain amount of raw power to fire yourself like a mass relay... Probably more then it would for a singularity. It would definitely take less precision and biotic control to charge compared to something delicate like singularity conjuring.

[Jukaga]

Exile Isan wrote...

Jacob <-- Why was Jacob even a biotic?
 

Tell me about it.

I'm a biotic! Let me know when you want me to use the good stuff!

Err, I'm an L5 who can charge across rooms and unleash hell in your face. Nice pull there bro.

[o Ventus]

@Klara

So Javik (who is repeatedly seen using biotics outside normal gameplay) and Miranda (who is also seen using biotics outside normal gameplay) only come off as biotics because it was "cool", but Thane doesn't? Not to mention Wrex, who is a Battlemaster (who rival matriarchs in terms of biotics).

[nos_astra]

Skullheart wrote...
There is a krogan procedure to implant eezo nodules inside krogans, however this surgery has the high risk of killing the patient (yeah, krogan are in dsnger of dying because this procedure). We know how ruthless Miranda's father is, so he might not have doubted about doing the krogan procecure to Miranda. She survived the operation thanks to her genetic tailoring (her body can resist more than a regular human) and now she's an incredible biotic. A quote to support this is "the intelligence, the looks, even the biotics. He paid for all that."

To be honest, what's the point of jumping through so many hoops just to give a character biotics and place them higher in a stupid ranking?

Seriously, not even in Mass Effect genetic engineering is the end-all be-all. It obviously has its limitations. Eezo exposure in the womb can leads to brain cancer ... and that's apparently still a problem and potentially lethal. 

Krogans are established as extremely resilient thanks to many backup systems in their bodies. To expect that a random mad human scientist somehow gentically engineered *handwave* his endless supply of clone daughters *handwave* so that one might survive and be implanted with eezo nodules into her nervous system *handwave* in a procedure that might kill a krogan, not only to be a biotic but to be the third most awesome biotic ever ... and while we're at it ... we invented special implants that are more powerful than the regular stuff ... but not powerful enough to be stronger than Shepard with a lame L3 or to hold up a barrier when it counts. Our super-hero with krogan-like resilience is also easily shot dead. (On the other hand it could explain while she runs around in a cat suit instead of armor.)

Modifié par klarabella, 12 mars 2013 - 09:55 .

[Gerudan]

Jukaga wrote...


Tell me about it.

I'm a biotic! Let me know when you want me to use the good stuff!

Err, I'm an L5 who can charge across rooms and unleash hell in your face. Nice pull there bro.

Jacob is a Biotic, so people can learn, what a Biotic is. 

Modifié par Gerudan, 12 mars 2013 - 09:59 .

[nos_astra]

o Ventus wrote...

@Klara
So Javik (who is repeatedly seen using biotics outside normal gameplay) and Miranda (who is also seen using biotics outside normal gameplay) only come off as biotics because it was "cool", but Thane doesn't? Not to mention Wrex, who is a Battlemaster (who rival matriarchs in terms of biotics).

I believe I put them all in the same list.

For none of these characters being biotics is a defining trait. It's a bonus, very likely added for gameplay reasons and the justified with a quick handwave or two and the odd bit of lore.

Very much unlike Jack or Kaidan whose whole backstories and characters hinge on them being biotics.

Modifié par klarabella, 12 mars 2013 - 10:06 .

[arial]

andy69156915 wrote...

Is she, Arial? It's supposed to take surgery to switch, yet she switches from whatever she was wired to in Purgatory to the new L5X right then and there when you research the upgrade. So again, either they were made with ease of switching in mind which the L2's and L3's weren't, Jack has been wired to pretty much every configuration of implant there is, or the L5X is actually an amp and not an implant like we think.

they just did not show the Surgery. Did they show the Surgery when Shepard has his/her scars removed? did they show the Surgery from Wrex's "Krogan Vitality" enhancement? did they show upgrading Legions shield? Did they Show the Upgrading of the Normandy itself?

Gotta remember, it takes time to fly that ship across the Galaxy, alot of things happen we are not shown. its not like the universe goes into stasis when Shepard is not present

[nos_astra]

andy69156915 wrote...
It also takes a certain amount of raw power to fire yourself like a mass relay... Probably more then it would for a singularity. It would definitely take less precision and biotic control to charge compared to something delicate like singularity conjuring.

Mass relays seem to work with two (relatively) fixed points in a network.

Modifié par klarabella, 12 mars 2013 - 10:04 .

[o Ventus]

andy69156915 wrote...

It also takes a certain amount of raw power to fire yourself like a mass relay... Probably more then it would for a singularity. It would definitely take less precision and biotic control to charge compared to something delicate like singularity conjuring.

There's nothing at all to suggest that Charge is as difficult as Singularity or Reave. Also, if you're propelling yourself at sub-FTL speeds at somebody, you probably want to focus and make sure you don't splatter on a wall. 

Singularities are hardly delicate, being miniature black holes.

Mass Effect 1 also explicitly describes the Adept as the "ultimate biotic".