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Finally Experienced the Ending...Really?


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#351
Applepie_Svk

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Valo_Soren wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...


And yes thats why the EC -IS- the ending now as it explains not everyone isn't screwed no matter what the choice, yeah the Destroy ending might put the galaxy in a bit of a bind but its made clear in the EC slides that they do in fact rebuild.


Nope, with use of logic Shepard couldn´t survived... unless it´s Bad Writing Theory, but well BWT has proved to be right already...


The Catalyst merely said that Shepard was part synthetic it didn't say for sure that the destroy option would outright kill him but his cybernetic pieces likely no longer function.


That wasn´t point if Shepard was or wasn´t  partially-synthetic, if all technology was just a disabled for a little while Shepard died in vacuum on the Citadel.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 13 mars 2013 - 09:20 .


#352
Clayless

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You're surprised OP?

Most people that disliked it have left now though, this place is much better than it had been a year ago.

#353
NCommand

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Robosexual wrote...

You're surprised OP?

Most people that disliked it have left now though, this place is much better than it had been a year ago.


Oh I think most dislikers are still here, it's just that they have either calmed down, stopped caring or have evolved their views on it

But yeah, it's great that there's less "RAWR, THEY KILLED SHEPARD, NOTHING MATTERS ANYMORE!" these days (before anyone says it, strawman yes, but this is pretty much how I will remember it 10 years from now)

Modifié par NCommand, 13 mars 2013 - 09:37 .


#354
TheProtheans

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NCommand wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

You're surprised OP?

Most people that disliked it have left now though, this place is much better than it had been a year ago.


Oh I think most dislikers are still here, it's just that they have either calmed down, stopped caring or have evolved their views on it

But yeah, it's great that there's less "RAWR, THEY KILLED SHEPARD, NOTHING MATTERS ANYMORE!" these days (before anyone says it, strawman yes, but this is pretty much how I will remember it 10 years from now)


Let's hope that they don't swim for you, the world will be much better off.

#355
AlanC9

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Noelemahc wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

This always struck me as being one of the sillier worries. The Catalyst's logic was that compelling? Really? If you thought that, then you shoudl be picking Synthesis anyway.

It's not compelling for an organic. But ponder for a moment that Shepard is now running on the hardware that used to house the Catalyst. We've already been shown tha the equivalent of the FDIV bug causes unresolvable political differences in the Geth. I'd be paranoid about this if I were Shepard.


This is glibness masquerading as an argument. Let's assume the hardware is buggy; that wouldn't mean that the bug would cause different programs to  behave the same way. If it did the programs would be the same too.

If you want to say that the Sheplyst's behavior is somewhat indeterminate, then sure. All complex systems like that are bug-prone, whether organic or synthetic. But the idea that the Sheplyst would fail the same way the Catalyst did is not rational 

Interesting headcanon. How do you square this with the EC slides? Or do you just not bother?

The ones that don't bother to keep themselves consistent with the games that preceded them? I find it poetic. I also find it entertaining that the fanbase seems to have put far more thought into figuring out what each choice Shepard has will do to the galaxy than the game's own writers.


So it's "not bother," eh? Yeah, that's what I guessed.

What's a VERY LONG WHILE here? Decades?

That depends. The Asari had millenia to figure out how the relays work,  and that was without technical limitation. My bet is a couple of decades unless something real nasty happens, yes. For an Asari or a Krogan, not an issue. For the other races? Not so much.


I don't see the issue. Hell, I've been pushing for an ME sequel set in an era where the relays haven't been repaired. Standard mass effect drives are still better than anything short of transwarp in Star Trek.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 mars 2013 - 10:40 .


#356
MegaSovereign

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I have no problem with post-Crucible aftermath. My issue is with the Catalyst decision chamber and how it all went down.

Nevermind the fact that a massive backstory dump in the middle of the narrative's climax is usually frowned upon, the whole thing was executed poorly even with the EC. There was no real chance to cite Shepard's accomplishments, which would have been entirely relevant to the Catalyst's argument about conflict. There was also no relevant exposition on the Crucible or why it did what it did. We can speculate these things from a meta-game perspective, but from an immersed standpoint it's ridiculous that Shepard would either shoot a component of the device or commit suicide on faith alone.

If you spent a year talking about the ending, you would find faults in it too OP. But I will agree that the whole thing largely was an overreaction.

#357
spirosz

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GT Zazzerka wrote...

You're misinterpreting a lot of people's dislike for the endings.



#358
Hexley UK

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Robosexual wrote...

You're surprised OP?

Most people that disliked it have left now though, this place is much better than it had been a year ago.


Curious choice of words....."Better".

I've got news for you, this place would be far less interesting if everyone agreed with you.:P

You are right though most ending haters just don't bother anymore, they've sworn off Bioware long ago, the retake forums are still quite lively though alot of former Bioware BSN'ers hang out there now.

Modifié par Hexley UK, 13 mars 2013 - 11:12 .


#359
Noelemahc

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AlanC9 wrote...


This is glibness masquerading as an argument. Let's assume the hardware is buggy; that wouldn't mean that the bug would cause different programs to  behave the same way. If it did the programs would be the same too.

If you want to say that the Sheplyst's behavior is somewhat indeterminate, then sure. All complex systems like that are bug-prone, whether organic or synthetic. But the idea that the Sheplyst would fail the same way the Catalyst did is not rational

I didn't say ReaperShep WILL do the same, just that it's possible. For all we know, (s)he can invent some new form of genocide, particularly if it was a Renegade (considering how ME3 turned Renegade from a more nonspecific "ends justify the means" into "sick genocidal maniac war criminal"). I'm just saying that blind faith that ReaperShep will be an infallible protector of the meek is kind of misguided.

I don't see the issue. Hell, I've been pushing for an ME sequel set in an era where the relays haven't been repaired. Standard mass effect drives are still better than anything short of transwarp in Star Trek.

That was in response to the happy-optimistic statement that the relays going down isn't a horrible thing and can be easily fixed. I'm right there with you in the no-relay future zone, because any additional challenges for survival/expansionism make for a more interesting universe. Imagine, a century later, the survivors and descendants of the United Fleet finally manage to venture beyond the Local Cluster using better-grade FTL engines they managed to reverse-engineer from the dead Reapers... what will they find in the rest of the galaxy? Hell, what will their fleet and societal structure look like?

#360
Zagardal

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Eterna5 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

So the ending sucks now cause it's sad? How about the ending just sucks cause it's stupid as hell?

Are we now arguing that Casper the genocidal ghost that got thrown at us the very last minute after annoying us with the idiotic dream sequences that you can't even skip, is good writing?

The hell people...


Leviathan forshadows him, EC explains him as well. If you still don;t get it, you may be stupid

Stupid post is stupid. Leviathan and EC come way after the O Endings. So much for your "foreshadowing".


That was then, this is now. The original endings are a thing of the past. Which is why I said still, if you still don't get it, you're an idiot. 


What a lame excuse for an argument. And even if everybody gets the ending, it still sucks. It's just a deus ex machina, last minute character, circular logic, and plot holes... staples of any bad ending.

Modifié par Zagardal, 14 mars 2013 - 07:23 .


#361
Jadebaby

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Maverick827 wrote...

That's what everyone was so upset over?  Because it was "sad"?  Really?

When the game came out, I saw the negative comments on Gamespot, Metacritic, the BSN, and the Off Topic forums of literally every other game forum that I frequent.  I was convinced the ending was a deus ex machina.  Some galactic, omniscient space god teleports to Earth at the last second and saves the day.  Or maybe a hyper-advanced species from another galaxy swoops in at the last second.  Surely it had to be something that insulting to evoke such an outburst that still exists to this day.

But no.  It was sad.  It wasn't a perfect, fairy tale ending.  That all there was to it.  Do these people watch nothing but cartoons?  Have they never encountered a sad ending before?  Have these people never read Shakespeare?  Victor Hugo?  How about The Great Gatsby, for a more contemporary example?

I understand wanting a happy ending (heh), and I wasn't personally one to complain when a tough decision in Dragon Age: Origins had an "easy out" (and then everyone complained about that; I guess BioWare can't win?).  I would welcome a fifth option not unlike the MEHEM mod to officially be included.  But to complain this much about what is a legitimate literary ending to a narrative, not a plot hole, not a deus ex machina...I just don't understand.  

I didn't think I could have less respect for the people who bash BioWare and EA (on their own forums, no less), but somehow I do now.

I'm just glad I can stop worrying about the endings being bad and know now how amazing they are.


OH MY GOD THERE IS SO MUCH DUMB IN THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!! SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUUCHHHHHHHHHHH 
DUMMMMMBBBBBBBBBB!!!

#362
Ridwan

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geceka wrote...

BlueDemonX wrote...

The things I wasn't okay with was the presentation (Starbrat coming out of the blue was really really ****ty)


I don't know, I've never really understood the complaint about the catalyst coming "out of the blue": After all, being this hidden, enigmatic entity that no organic has ever met before (apart from maybe the Leviathans who built it, as we learnt later) is what defines this character, and for me personally, the Prothean VI's comments on Thessia made it pretty clear that there is something else behind the Reapers.

Apart from this, I don't know what else would have been suitable in the catalyst's position. I mean, I can't imagine having a sensible conversation with Harbinger, that would pretty much be out-of-character for him, considering Harbinger has never said anything besides threats and insults.

Additionally, an elusive intelligence/AI/agent behind a powerful synthetic/robotic threat is really not *that* uncommon of a trope in sci-fi.


How about no final conversation with the dumb kid? The Crucible could've just been a weapon that shot out some energy pulse that disabled the Reapers shield evening the playing field, and with galaxy united they'd die. Then depending on your score and your choices they would either defeat us, we defeat them through a costly battle or we win with many but acceptable losses.

We didn't need that dumb ass kid to explain anything (he doesn't even explain when probed) what we needed was a sense of accomplishment that all we did through the entire three games mattered. Instead we got some dumb ass ghost boy with hardon for genocide beaming us up (he could've left us to die) and make us pick three colours one worse than the other. Yeah, brilliant ending. Cue the drone saying "Well I can't see you do better!" I just did.

#363
Zhuinden

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Maverick827 wrote...

That's what everyone was so upset over?  Because it was "sad"?  Really?

When the game came out, I saw the negative comments on Gamespot, Metacritic, the BSN, and the Off Topic forums of literally every other game forum that I frequent.  I was convinced the ending was a deus ex machina.  Some galactic, omniscient space god teleports to Earth at the last second and saves the day.  Or maybe a hyper-advanced species from another galaxy swoops in at the last second.  Surely it had to be something that insulting to evoke such an outburst that still exists to this day.

But no.  It was sad.  It wasn't a perfect, fairy tale ending.  That all there was to it.  Do these people watch nothing but cartoons?  Have they never encountered a sad ending before?  Have these people never read Shakespeare?  Victor Hugo?  How about The Great Gatsby, for a more contemporary example?

I understand wanting a happy ending (heh), and I wasn't personally one to complain when a tough decision in Dragon Age: Origins had an "easy out" (and then everyone complained about that; I guess BioWare can't win?).  I would welcome a fifth option not unlike the MEHEM mod to officially be included.  But to complain this much about what is a legitimate literary ending to a narrative, not a plot hole, not a deus ex machina...I just don't understand.  

I didn't think I could have less respect for the people who bash BioWare and EA (on their own forums, no less), but somehow I do now.

I'm just glad I can stop worrying about the endings being bad and know now how amazing they are.


Sir I  may need to point you to some links in my sig:
Broken promises regarding ME3 ending: Thread #1, Thread #2, Thread #3, Thread #4

Why the ending is pretty much nonsensical: http://i0.kym-cdn.co...270/606/13a.jpg

#364
Kabooooom

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I prefer a sad ending. I wanted my Shepard to die. Hell I actually would have preferred an ending where the Reapers win and you go down valiantly fighting. What I didn't want was a sloppily written ending. If you can't see how poorly the ending was written, OP, then I'm not sure where to begin. I guess basic literature courses maybe. Especially with regards to the quality of the rest of the game and the rest of the trilogy too...it truly stands out and apart as sub-par.

And that's coming from me, a guy who freaking loves mass effect 3 about equally as much as me2 at this point. But I have to be honest, and you should be too - the ending was just not good. Could it have been worse? Hell yes. Way better? Absolutely.

#365
STRANGE10VE

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Happy endings are a very boring modern phenomena. The whole indoctrination theory farce was just a way to try and cook up a happy ending as is the fascination with the breath scene at the end of destroy.

#366
Ridwan

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Why the hell would anyone want a sad ending any way?

#367
wright1978

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JPN17 wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

That's what everyone was so upset over?  Because it was "sad"?  Really?


Not even close.


Yep i despise them because they are a laughable trainwreck not because they are sad.

#368
fainmaca

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I don't care about the ending being 'sad'.

My issue with the ending is that they committed the cardinal sin of forcing inevitability into a game all about self-determination and fighting the odds. A synthetic-organic war that ends in the death of all organic life is 'inevitable'. Now that synthesis has been figured out, it is 'inevitable'.

The first inevitability negates every choice you make throughout the games as a trilogy. It doesn't matter what you did before, none of it even contributed to making the galaxy a safer place. Remember when Anderson, Udina and Hackett were discussing Shepard at the opening of ME1, and they said that he was the only person who could protect the Galaxy? Well boy were they wrong! Turns out nothing could protect the Galaxy.

As for the second inevitability, that negates the ending choice itself. The starchild tells us in clear language that synthesis will happen, whether we like it or not, so what's the point of delaying it with destroy/control/refuse?

Bioware gave us a game all about choice, with core gameplay elements focused on choice and talking (in ME1 and, admittedly to a lesser extent, ME2, the talking is your gameplay. The shooting is actually an ancillary concern. At least, that felt like the approach taken.), and then gave us an ending that invalidated that whole premise. The ending wouldn't have suffered had the entire 100+ hours beforehand been nothing but mindless shooting with railroad cutscenes. In fact, it would have improved had that been the case, because then we wouldn't have appraoched it with the valid expectaions we did.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg with these endings, but they are the most prominent issues.

#369
3DandBeyond

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OP, it never really was about some super silly happy ending though in effect with the cutscenes and slide shows now the attempt is to show happy endings of the super silly variety. The term is even used to insult those who are always challenged to fully express just what they did want.

For many it was a happier, more satisfying experience. Victory through our own true means along with the survival of Shepard and characters that were important to each fan. But as a possibility, something that was achievable and clearly shown. And not even as the only possibility.

One of the most overriding concerns was basically that is just make sense. That the themes created within 3 games extend to the endings and that major stories have relevance at the end. It also was important that the character that each player "created" using the dialogue and actions Bioware allowed us to choose from, exist at the end. In my game, she did not. That Shepard is not the one I played-and that's possibly very likely where they got the idea of the clone for Citadel DLC. Bioware created options for me to choose from in my game and those options created a specific Shepard for whom the endings were a pile of mush and crapola. So, my Shepard has no conclusion. The endings do not fit the game I played. I might extend that belief to say that I don't understand how anyone can think they fit anyone's game because of the many egregious flaws within the whole post-conduit content, but that would be substituting my opinion for theirs. It's bad enough that they do that to me.

The endings I wanted would have contained variations based upon all that you and I did and were allowed to do in the games. They would never though have disbanded the idea that the destruction of the reapers was paramount and THE goal-it was all along and no one in the game who was in their right mind, ever considered any other alternative to have value. The endings would have (in my perfect game) fully realized the idea that working together (unity) could achieve the impossible and that our differences (diversity) are what make us strong, and allow us to grow and to reach for and achieve better things. Within such endings there would be the sad full on loss type ending, the bittersweet and sacrificial, and the full on win and survival based not on some final contrived choice but as an outcome of perhaps who Shepard was, what Shepard did, and how Shepard did those things. Not a choice but a consequence and goal oriented. Not some final choice given by god only knows who in order to serve the purpose of the most idiotic grouping of synthetics and organics that have ever existed (the kid "AI", Leviathan, and the reapers). It's the most inane thing to have a game about galactic survival with decisions made along the way that were for one purpose instead and at the last few moments be about solving the problem of a "gang of idiots" using some method created by some unknown person or persons (the choices and the crucible plans).

My perfect endings would also have shown real consequences of what has just occurred-not some slides that say "lookie, everyone be smiling-the galaxy is A-OK." The galaxy has been through a meat grinder and so when people say it's the journey and not the destination that matters, well no, it's the journey and the destination that matter-they are intertwined and the destination should reflect in part the journey that has gotten one to that destination. The galaxy needs a hero even more in reclaiming what was lost-but it can never reclaim all that was lost. Rebuilding and renewing, reaffirming life and all will take even more courage. The journey has been crappy and trillions have died from different cycles to get to this point-the point past the reaper reality.

I for one wanted the chance to get to a happier ending, one with consequences, real logic, the ability to play the game through to the end, and especially the certainty of real endings, no matter the "choice". I'd have preferred it all be rational as well. I got none of what I wanted. Glad for those who did.

One last note was that one thing BW said was in relation to all the wishes that Shepard might live and have a reunion with friends (often expressed as just one simple scene that shows everyone knows the others survived). BW said they couldn't do that because everyone would want something different and they couldn't customize such a thing for everyone. This makes no sense. How is it that BW could never make post-ending reunion content because people would want different things, but now they were able to create pre-ending reunion content.

And this issue might never have exploded in the way it did had BW not been the one to create the hype and buzz about what the endings would be. Prior to release it was like they could not stop talking about what the ending would be like. Now, you may fault other devs for the fact they hype their games too, but in fact, BW created this fiasco. Never should have opened the door and discussed how it would all end. No doubt fans would still have complained the ending fails-I could never see this as a rational great cathartic way to end this series, but at least they never would have been hung by their own words.

So, OP, sure I wanted happier, but not bunnies and rainbows-I wanted something more real and pertinent to the stories I'd taken part of. ME3's endings don't fit the game I played and you don't even play the ending at all. It's like one big cutscene interrupted by some button presses. Wee, fun. No, I didn't want a boss fight either, but a boss conversation? How about a true confrontation at least? This kid has been sending monsters to suck the life out of people-so by all means let's sit down and have tea together. STUPID.

#370
3DandBeyond

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Kabooooom wrote...

I prefer a sad ending. I wanted my Shepard to die. Hell I actually would have preferred an ending where the Reapers win and you go down valiantly fighting. What I didn't want was a sloppily written ending. If you can't see how poorly the ending was written, OP, then I'm not sure where to begin. I guess basic literature courses maybe. Especially with regards to the quality of the rest of the game and the rest of the trilogy too...it truly stands out and apart as sub-par.

And that's coming from me, a guy who freaking loves mass effect 3 about equally as much as me2 at this point. But I have to be honest, and you should be too - the ending was just not good. Could it have been worse? Hell yes. Way better? Absolutely.


This is the point.  I wanted happier, but I never thought that was the only valid way to end it in some satisfying way.  I wanted it as one possibility.  But I could also see a variety of authentic ways to end it.  And I firmly believe that full exposition of each variety of ending is needed for this game, or was always needed.

Sad, hell yes-it would be great to play the game knowing that Shepard had to die but did so in sacrifice for the clearly greater good.  Truly horrifically sad, definitely wanted a chance to lose and be shown those consequences in full detail.  True, super silly sappy happy-never wanted that.  Happier-yes.  Post-ending reunion, yes.  But that doesn't mean watching Liara go through labor and delivering blue babies, either.  Victory, and some real clear sense that if you did certain things, Shepard could live-maybe his/her LI or friends will die, but then another way to keep them alive too.  Bloodied and bowed, but not beaten.

#371
Cobretti ftw

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guy created a thread to talk about something that he cant understand.

MANY people arent mad because of sheps death. They are mad because of the bad writting. The entire ending is terrible.

There is an endning in witch shep lives. And thats the ending that i hate the most. so plz.... DOnt create threads of things u know nothing about.

#372
SpamBot2000

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Victor Hugo?

Someone's got the Les Miz Fevah!

That is all.

#373
ScriptBabe

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It was a writing failure. They hadn't set up the solution way back in the first game. They needed to at least hint at it. That being the case it was going to be very hard to satisfy the players. The new team didn't seem to have a full grasp of the themes as established. They brought in a new antagonist in the final minutes which was so disconcerting. All the choices that were made didn't seem to make any difference, and there were no real options. I had really thought they would use the excellent Dragon Age: Origins as the template. If a player wants heroic self-sacrifice they can do that. If they want a happy ending they can have that.

And I disagree that happy endings are a modern phenomenon or that they are somehow inferior. Dark is easy to write, a satisfying happy ending where the hero has earned the win are harder to pull off, and just as valid as a tragedy.

Modifié par ScriptBabe, 25 mars 2013 - 12:10 .


#374
KingZayd

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Nope.

Not because it was sad. Because it was bad.

#375
VoodooDrackus

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It really comes down to a lack of comprehension.

People hate what they don't understand, i.e. fail to comprehend.

It seems that the Literary greats have fallen by the wayside these days which may contribute to this... obtuseness