Since I got the Lancer to II, I knew I would love the gun. A good, versatile AR. Good on casters, not a raving monster on weapons classes(though still damn good on them) When I got it to X, friends stated that the Harrier was better. I acknowledged it as true, and did not give much thought until the telemetry showed that the Harrier was the most used gun in the game. It was suggested that the Lancer would outdo the Harrier if more people had it for longer.
Is this true? I have been told many times that the Harrier is superior, so is it?
Harrier lovers, you are not likely to like what you read here. Just warning you
I decided to compare it to the Lancer, since that is an excellent standard for an AR. The rest of them should be niched accordingly, especially in the UR category.
PPR and the Typhoon are bosskillers, I can only imagine that the Spitfire was intended to be a large-capacity mook-mower since it is utterly useless against bosses(save Phantoms perhaps)
The Lancer and Harrier are of similar use, mobile AR's for a versatility of sorts. Harrier is the heavier, more damaging one with far superior accuracy with ammo restrictions, a weapons class's weapon. The Lancer is for the casters, light, ammo free, and overall weaker than the Harrier in damage output.
But here is the problem I noticed, while the Lancer is the caster weapon, the Harrier is a better weapon for said casters. I haven't noticed too much of a penalty when I moved from the Lancer X to the Harrier X once more.
Lets take a look at what is supposed to set the Lancer into the caster niche, the weight.
Lancer X, 0.80(Phaeston weight), Harrier X is at 1.25(Revenant Weight). At first, that looks like a big difference.
Now, let us see how this affects classes that use the weapon well:
--Asari Justicar (bubbleless, both weight evos taken)
Reave CD is 2.67s with Harrier X
Reave CD is 2.46s with Lancer X
--Human Soldier(first weight evo taken
)ARush CD is 2.18s with Harrier X
ARush CD is 1.88s with Lancer X
--Quarian Male Engineer(first weight evo taken)
Incinerate CD is 3.08s with Harrier X
Incinerate CD is 2.62s with Lancer X
--N7 Demolisher
No cooldowns, objectively better, no contest.
--Turian Seninel(first weight evo taken, recharge speed taken on Overload and not Warp)
Warp CD 2.76s Harrier X
Warp CD 2.46s Lancer X
Overload CD 2.54s Harrier X
Overload CD 2.29s Lancer X
--Turian Vanguard (no weight or recharge evos taken)
PS CD 2.86s Harrier X
PS CD 2.46s Lancer X
As seen here, the Harrier only really knocks cooldowns at maximum less than half a second in contrast to the Lancer. Not much of a difference at all.So, perhaps there is not much damage in performance? False, the Harrier performs more comfortably than a Lancer, is more accurate standing out of cover than the Lancer is in hard cover(critical for ranged headsots, and achieving the same DPS over distance) and the Harrier does not kick.
Overall much better than the Lancer for range. To be expected, it is supposed to be the weapons classes... except the cooldown change is inconsequential.
Alright, damage, perhaps they are not far off in Damage?--Singleclip DPSLancer X 848Harrier I 973 (1,187.08 at X)--Multiclip DPSLancer X 540Harrier I 598(729.2 at X)
Okay, nevermind, pretty good descrepancy there.So, in terms of differences the Harrier wins very comfortably in damage, recoil in accuracy(Able to put out more damage and at much longer range) whereas the Lancer only wins slightly in weight(and insignificatnly at that).
The only aspect of the Lancer that comfortably wins over the Harrier is ammo, which is only much more useful in select situations. FB's Condor, Glaicer, and Dagger hazard, or with three or more harriers in the lobby.When taking the Lancer over the Harrier, you are sacrificing -0.5s of cooldown for~340 DPS in a faster burst damage (20 rounds as opposed to 50, more useful on casters than sustained damage) that is more reliable across distance(more if you land headshots, again happens more on Harrier than Lancer) Basically you are dropping mooks much faster over longer distance between casts.
Now, since the Harrier is a better option for both casters *and* weapons kits, these two need to be niched, balanced. The Harrier with its superior damage and range needs to be less caster friendly to emphasize the Lancer's niche(instead of buffing the Lancer and making it better on weapons kits)
So, weight increase is called for here I think. How much, I think the Saber's weight (1.40) would be sufficient
Now, opening up Naridia's class builder to see what the cooldowns are like on the Lancer as opposed to the Saber?
--Asari Justicar (bubbleless, both weight evos taken)
Reave CD is 2.81s with Saber X
Reave CD is 2.46s with Lancer X
--Human Soldier(first weight evo taken)
ARush CD is 2.31s with Saber X
ARush CD is 1.88s with Lancer X
--Quarian Male Engineer(first weight evo taken)
Incinerate CD is 3.27s with Saber X
Incinerate CD is 2.62s with Lancer X
--Turian Seninel(first weight evo taken, recharge speed taken on Overload and not Warp
)Warp CD 2.91s Saber X
Warp CD 2.46s Lancer X
Overload CD 2.67s Saber X
Overload CD 2.29s Lancer X
--Turian Vanguard (no weight or recharge evos taken)
PS CD 3.02s Saber X
PS CD 2.46s Lancer X
As you could see, the nerf would indeed have little effect, but as it stands there is no real remote downside to using the Harrier on Gold, except perhaps the occasional ammo problem. Ammo is the only thing balancing this gun against the Lancer, and the degree by which it completely outclasses the Lancer in other areas well more than makes up for it.The Harrier needs a weight nerf, perhaps one more drastic than I am proposing because the recoil bug will never be fixed. Perhaps alongside it a 10% damage nerf to compensate for the gun's utter lack of recoil and pinpoint accuracy.
Harrier used to be this games only real assualt rifle. We had nothing to balance it against, now that we do we realize how OP the weapon really is. Its not OP because it is a versaitle AR, as the Lancer shows. It is OP because it gives *excellent* damage and range for no penalty whatsoever if you actually move around the map on Gold. If you remember where the ammo boxes are, and you attack in a pattern that leads you to box after box(real easy to do on Goddess, for example) the Harrier has no downside, and awesome damage. Hence, OP.Now, these changes will not put the Harrier in its place. What will do it is the change to 1.40 *and* a fix to the recoil bug, but as it stands weight nerf is actually needed. Perhpas damage will be needed as well, but we will see.
And no, weight nerf will not kill the gun, since adding 1.5 weight to a weapon at X is far from a significant change(especially since I mentioned that a difference of 4.5 did not make a significant difference on cooldowns). It will still likely be a better option for casters, but at least it will not be a "well, duh!" sort of solution to that question. This will lessen, but not eliminate, the Harrier's inherent superiority to the Lancer. To tolerable levels, I do not know. I have yet to test a Saber on these classes and see if the cooldown changes are actually very noticeable.
Thoughts?
Any constructive input or info I missed would be appreciated.
Modifié par Major Durza, 12 mars 2013 - 05:21 .
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