85 réponses à ce sujet

[Supra_Guy]

Im just glad that there are options when it comes to weapon chioce. Having the best gun is not required, unless you really care about being at the top of the score board every time. (lol in co-op game seriously) Me, I like the lancer more because it doesnt have cerberus logos on it and it sounds like a mass effect 1 gun. It may or may not be the best gun but its good enough.

[HELLHOUND_ROCKO]

as Harrier is one of the top 10 worst recoil troubling guns here on PS3 but the Lancer is not - the latter wins for me in terms of controlability - and - sustained fire DPS: as unlike the Harrier, it is able to sustain fire on its own - while with the Harrier, you either need to guard an ammo box or need to run to one everytimes enough damage left the gun to kill a gold-boss - and man, if you would legitimately take that amount of extra time into Harriers sustained fire DPS...

- jokes aside: for silver/ gold/ platin solos, where i everytimes have to be on the move, pulling the enemy behind me in circles throughout the map and need to only dish out as much as i can in a short duration from time to time, or for kill stealings - i say my Harrier10 is the better choice - for everything else: its my Lancer10 - as unlike the Harrier, it is a working gun concept on its own.

[Stahlhammer]

I prefer Lancer, the main reason being it is not Harrier.

[TODD 5184]

Gross. Another Harrier nerf thread.

[digetey dank]

dont care about the numbers-i like the lancer better

[Tonymac]

capn233 wrote...

Harrier is irrefutably better on weapon focused classes, and arguably on any class on Gold and below.

Lancer's unlimited ammo is a bigger benefit on Platinum or buggy ammo crate maps. But outside that it isn't ever really better than Harrier. It is really a more accurate, infinite ammo, Revenant.

QFT

Well stated

[U Bite My Pillow]

Stimpo wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...



You know your mechanics wrong .. Yes ap ammo component will do 0 damage vs shields but actual weapon damage will still hit twice/thrice while the shields are up ...

 That's...really good to know... poor atlases, such a joke of a "boss" unit. That def makes the atlas "clipping" w/ a lancer more realistic

Its easy to do, all your need is the right Gear/Mods. If you factor in a Debuff like Cryo Blast or Warp taking out Gold Atlas's with 1 mag is to easy. Turain Sent with max Warp spec'd for Debuff and those passives with level 2-3 amps and ammos will shread a Gold Atlas with 1 mag.

[Major Durza]

january42 wrote...

 Just to check:  AA- 135% cooldown with a harrier. Ok, but not ideal by any means. 180% with a Lancer (both at X). You get pretty similar reusults with most other caster classes (other Volus, who suck).

The thing is, the Harrier is already not a great gun on power spammers.  Without a damage boost, the ammo problems really come back to bite you as you need to much ammo to take out guys. I actually don't usually take it on casters for this reason, but it's at least an option. Barely.

Also, the ammo thing means it's not a great choice for weapon classes either as you have to hug ammo boxes due to firing all the time.  If you made it weight as much as a Saber it would basicly be pointless for casters and would need a considerable spare ammo buff to make sense for weapon classes.  The Harrier is actually a nicely balanced gun as is, unlike most of the AR's, which are junk. 

In short, while the cool down difference isn't that much, the Lancer works better on casters I find because the harriers ammo problems(both space and the smalll clip) end up mattering more on casters.   A caster using the harrier will find themselves running out of ammo alot, while the Lancer allows one to keep moving around the field.

Also, observe this.

Total damage per clip is much better with the lancer than the harrier.
Total damage per clip(if all bullets it)
Harrier x: 2590

With the lancer, it depends how much ammo you lose due to avoiding the cooldown. Let us say you let go when the ammo is at 20....which is pretty conservative IMHO).  Total damage per clip for the Lancer, assuming you let go at 20
Lancer X: 3137.6

IF your a bit better and let go at 10 ammo left.
Lancer X: 3985.6 

It gets betteer the closer you can cut it of course.

While you can fix that with an extended mag, you then give up the capabilty to have the nice Heavy Barrel+Piercing combination on either gun, which requires you to get your piercing from your ammo.  Which is another disadvantage.

Both guns are well balanced as is.   The Saber needs a buff to bring it's ROF up to where having a multi-shot clip matters.   The one only thing that keeps the Lacer from being a no brainer for casters is that they introduced power amps for pistols and SMG's.

Consider the time it takes to dish out all that damage, Harrier does it faster (and at much longer range)
The Harrier does not hamper the power classes enough for how much it boosts their damage, it should not be as caster friendly as it is.  Its just about as friendly to casters as weapons classes, and it should be a little less forgiving, hamper the "caster" part a bit more to compensate for the overall awesomeness the weapon has over the lancer.

Stimpo wrote...

DHKany wrote...

U Bite My Pillow wrote...

Something I forgot to mention:

A player with a Lancer sees 2 Atlas's. His/Her first thought is "ok let's see if I can take these guys out faster than the last 2".

A player with a Harrier sees 2 Atlas's. His/Her first thought is "crap where's the nearest ammo box"?

ummmmm no. 

Lancer player should be thinking, "this is going to take forever"

Harrier players should be thinking, "just stay close to an ammo box and ill be fine"

seriously, the lancer is not a boss killer.

in reality, the person with the lancer should be relying heavily on tech/biotic powers and combos to kill the atlases, and the person with the harrier should be holding down the trigger for the most part (exacerbates the ammo issue). The problem is the harrier is light enough for many casters to take, especially when lvld, and casters dont use quite as much ammo. It really is the duct tape of me3 weapons, stick it on anything and it'll make it work.

While it is true a Harrier user has to watch when he takes on a boss unit such as an Atlas (at that point you need to go for crit hits at any rate, can take them out easily with your ammo reserve,  Likely 2 atlases if you play your cards right and have the weapon sufficiently amped)
Simply go for the mooks and Lieutenants, save the Atlas for last, go for Crit hits and take the thing down a lot faster with the Harrier than the Lancer.

That's my point, casters use this weapon with little penalty.  Suggesting increasing the penalty by bringing it in the weight range of the Saber.  Casters think twice about the saber, and for good reason.  Also, this is only adding o.15 to the weight, seeing how the difference between the Lancer and Harrier is 0.45, this is hardly a significant change.

Cricketer15 wrote...

if you sit next to ammo box then Harrier 4sure brah

Or move between ammo boxes while attacking, it is not that hard on most maps.

Trogdorx wrote...

While we're busy balancing weapons by weight can we turn the Typhoon and GSF into death hoses like they should be?

Typhoon needs its rampup modifier back and the GSF needs is ROF fixed.  Typhoon needs to kill bosses faster with an ammo reliance, PPR is lighter and never runs out of ammo, and the GSF needs to plow mooks and shielded enemies.  IDK what it does against armor, I do not thing plowing Banshees was the GSF's intent.


Apologies for the necro, just got off work.

[ISHYGDDT]

Major Durza wrote...
 plowing Banshees 

lol.

[It IS Lupus]

got a harrier 6 and a lancer 1 and prefer the lancer the lack of ammo is a major factor, unless I'm playing a natation with the ammo gear bonus. I'll always pick the lancer

[Major Durza]

It IS Lupus wrote...

got a harrier 6 and a lancer 1 and prefer the lancer the lack of ammo is a major factor, unless I'm playing a natation with the ammo gear bonus. I'll always pick the lancer

Don't get me wrong, I vastly prefer the Lancer, I am saying that the Harrier is as another poster said the "duct tape" of ME3 MP.  Put it on anything and it works.

This can be argued about the Claymore as well, but Claymore actually punishes cooldowns, Harrier does not so much.  I like the feel of the lancer a lot more, as well as the concept, the Harrier outclasses it from a strict efficiency point of view rather comfortably, and adding .15 to its weight will preserve its capabilities on weapons classes while making it a bit less forgiving on casters.