140 réponses à ce sujet

[fainmaca]

Enhanced wrote...

CaptainCommander wrote...

"In the end, what does it matter? Your salvation lies in stopping them, not in understanding them."- Vigil ME1

Vigil doesn't make sense. You can't stop an enemy as powerful and overwhelming as the Reapers without understanding them.  There's no way. 

If your gun is a house-sized mass of 'screw you', I'm pretty sure you don't need to understand anything in the universe except where the trigger is.

I don't recall needing to understand anything much about the mercs in ME2 if I had enough power cells for the Cain.

[George Costanza]

CaptainCommander wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The greatest mistake of Mass Effect 3 was The Crucible, for me, but explaining the Reapers back story certainly wasn't a strong point of the game either. Especially since we'd been told we could never comprehend their reasoning and then it turned out to be utterly banal.

The Crucible is part of the explanation of the Reapers because it leads up to the Star Child and his flawed logic. The Crucible fitted nicely into the original plot of the first leaked script! You should look around on the forums for the post about the original script!

Maybe it did, but the version we got didn't. The Crucible is a ridiculous plot device and creates so many problems for the story that I'm amazed that anybody at Bioware let it get past the "Hey, what if..." stage.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

After getting the stupid reasoning for the Reapers, I'm not quite sure if explaining them is a good thing. I was excited to find out what they were all about, but I keep going back to ME1 where we are told "we can't comprehend them".....and then it's a stupid reason.

I think keeping it a mystery would have been more "scary" or evil....or something.

[Absaroka]

I'm not against the Reapers being given a backstory per se. They could have had any number of reasons to do what they do that would have fit with the first two games.

They could have been hyper-advanced, living doomsday weapons continuing to fulfill their function despite their creators and reason for existing having been long gone.  They could have been a post-singularity apex species who engage in the cycle of extinction to ensure their continued dominance and capability to sustain their population.  They could have just been a bunch of immortal sadistic psychopaths who get their kicks from mass murder and destruction.

Again, they could have had any number of explainations that would have been consistant with how they were portrayed before.  What I don't think they could have been, yet the writers decided they should be, was servants to some sort of "noble" goal.  It simply doesn't match well with the sadism and barbarity of their methods, let alone when some of their methods seem counterproductive to their goals (i.e. leaving behind advanced technology, inciting conflict between organics and synthetics).

[Colancio]

Explaining the reapers background was not the problem, change it was. They were space C'thulu and then just the toys of an hologram kid...

Modifié par Colancio, 12 mars 2013 - 05:07 .

[SteamPunkJin]

I spent well over 100 hours hearing that I would never understand their motivations or even to begin comprehending their existence. Then ME3 tried to explain all that stuff. Yes, I agree, it was bad.

[ruggly]

At this point, I would have preferred no explanation to the one we got.

[BD Manchild]

I don't think the problem was so much in that it was explained, it's that the explanation was so utterly and thoroughly stupid and was all given in the last ten minutes utterly contradicting everything that had been established up to that point, thus breaking every rule of good storytelling in the book.

[Vortex13]

The Reapers unfortunately fell prey to the same kind of "development" that the CTan of Warhammer 40K.

Before the (Ward) Codex, the Necron CTan (Star Gods) were this timeless force, manipulating and directing the course of the universe.

Then the new codex comes out and rectons them into oblivion.

Seriously, I never understand WHY writers keep doing this; you have an element/character/race/plot device that works perfectly, fans can speculate on it, it generates an aura of mystery around a character, ect. This is a defining part of your lore, and it is working; so why do you need to "fix" it?

Why the explanation? Why the backstory? Why shine a spotlight on every last little detail of this element, when it operated the best when it existed in the shadows, only hints of its purpose/form/motivations ect being shown?

If its not broke don't fix it.

[CaptainCommander]

You go back and you listen to what Sovereign says in ME1 and all the things Harbinger says to you in ME2, to get that idiotic explanation. We are just misunderstood good guys! No you are giant evil things. They could of explained so many other things, like the Keepers and how they were changed and how the Collectors were changed etc. Not where the Reapers came from and why they do what they do. I can't comprehend it and I don't want to.

ME1:
ME2:
http://youtu.be/5zWuFjlDBaE

[AlanC9]

CaptainCommander wrote...

You go back and you listen to what Sovereign says in ME1 and all the things Harbinger says to you in ME2, to get that idiotic explanation. We are just misunderstood good guys! No you are giant evil things. They could of explained so many other things, like the Keepers and how they were changed and how the Collectors were changed etc. Not where the Reapers came from and why they do what they do. I can't comprehend it and I don't want to.
 

Wait... you think that the Reapers should have believed themselves to be evil?

[Maverick827]

Absaroka wrote...

It simply doesn't match well with the sadism and barbarity of their methods

Reapers have no concept of sadism or barbarity.  They don't care about the current cycle and how they appear to organics.  They care about preserving organic life for eternity.  Everything is a means to an end.

let alone when some of their methods seem counterproductive to their goals (i.e. leaving behind advanced technology, inciting conflict between organics and synthetics).

Leaving behind technology allows them to control technological evolution.  It allows them to pinpoint approximately when organic civilization is reaching that "oh ****, synthetics are going to kill everyone" boiling point.  It makes all advanced life reliant on technology they don't understand.  It both pushes them forward was well as handicaps them.

Inciting conflict between organics and synthetics is not counterproductive to their goals because they inherently assume that there will be conflict anyway.  When Soverign requisitioned the Geth, it was already decided that this cycle was over.  The Reaper's aren't interested in making peace between organics and synthetics in any one cycle.

[TheIdiocyWizard2.0]

I agree, I think trying to explain their origins was a big mistake that could only lead to disaster (though the size of said disaster could of ranged anywhere from mild to catastrophic).
The Reapers were set up so perfectly and mysterious that there's no way, at least that I can see, that they could have come up with something suitable. Really, I always felt one of the strongest suits of the ME series was that you knew absolutely nothing about their motives. This is why the Reapers were such a compelling enemy, because they were so ominous and at the same time quite obviously powerful that any sort of victory felt like a major achievement. I think that if they kept the Reaper's motivations secret and unknowable, their final defeat would have seemed so much greater.

Instead we get a half-assed (excuse my french) version of the over-used, "Can Organics and Synthetics coexist?" theme/message/whatever. Speaking of which, I think I'm one of the few people who seems to like the current ending better than the Dark Energy one, but that's another topic for another conversation.

[DecCylonus]

I think an ending without an explanation would have been unsatisfying.Villains with no motivation are the things of children's cartoons. ME deserved better than that. I enjoyed the mystery for two games, but I wouldn't want to win the war and not understand what I had fought.

[Rosstoration]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

CaptainCommander wrote...

"In the end, what does it matter? Your salvation lies in stopping them, not in understanding them."- Vigil ME1

Vigil doesn't make sense. You can't stop an enemy as powerful and overwhelming as the Reapers without understanding them.  There's no way. 

If you can shoot a pipe you can stop the Reapers.

And people try and defend this nonsense...

Yerrrp. The Holy Pipe of Doom that insta-kills all Reapers, and has been sitting on the arse end of the Citadel Tower this entire time. If only we know!

[WarGriffin]

Vortex13 wrote...

The Reapers unfortunately fell prey to the same kind of "development" that the CTan of Warhammer 40K.

Before the (Ward) Codex, the Necron CTan (Star Gods) were this timeless force, manipulating and directing the course of the universe.

Then the new codex comes out and rectons them into oblivion.

Seriously, I never understand WHY writers keep doing this; you have an element/character/race/plot device that works perfectly, fans can speculate on it, it generates an aura of mystery around a character, ect. This is a defining part of your lore, and it is working; so why do you need to "fix" it?

Why the explanation? Why the backstory? Why shine a spotlight on every last little detail of this element, when it operated the best when it existed in the shadows, only hints of its purpose/form/motivations ect being shown?

If its not broke don't fix it.

Cause some Fans really really wanted to know the truth.

that and it's kinda clear that they want you to veiw Chaos and the Tyranids as the major "villians" Essentially the C'tan got knocked down to secondary villian slot when they were easily a contender for Top villian.

[Knight of Dane]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I sorta agree with you.

I haven't downloaded and played Leviathan yet to preserve what little mystery remains.

Lucky:unsure:

[Jukaga]

I found it a mite annoying being told again and again that it is impossible to defeat the Reapers conventionally, except that I have been doing it for the last three years. They go down if you shoot them enough.

Easiest way possible:

1. Assemble obsolete starships
2. Point them at Reapers
3. Fire up FTL drives
4. Big frigging boom

[Knight of Dane]

DecCylonus wrote...

I think an ending without an explanation would have been unsatisfying.Villains with no motivation are the things of children's cartoons. ME deserved better than that. I enjoyed the mystery for two games, but I wouldn't want to win the war and not understand what I had fought.

So you are satisfied with what you got?

[Mcfly616]

DecCylonus wrote...

I think an ending without an explanation would have been unsatisfying.Villains with no motivation are the things of children's cartoons. ME deserved better than that. I enjoyed the mystery for two games, but I wouldn't want to win the war and not understand what I had fought.

This.


There would've been major outrage (on par with the endings) had the mysteries of the Reapers not been revealed. Maybe you didn't like what it turned out to be. Maybe its your own fault for assuming you knew how everything would turn out. Fighting against monsters who have no other motivation but to kill you is extremely dull. And there would've been backlash on a monumental scale. People already complain about the little speculation there is in the ending.....could you imagine how much more complaining there would be if we had to speculate everything about the Reapers?!

I've been wondering about the Reapers since ME1. I love the characters, the galaxy and all that. But my main thought since ME1, was about the Reapers. What are they? Where did they come from? What's their motivation? How are we going to beat them?

Anybody who says they didn't wonder the same things are either lying or they're just using hindsight to express that they didnt like the way it turned out. Hell, I had ideas of what the answers of all these questions would be.....the difference is, I never expected my ideas to turn out to be correct, and that's why I'm fine with it. It makes sense and that's all I can ask for.


If you've been playing since ME1 and didn't think Shepard would uncover the secrets of the Reapers, then you were pretty naive

Modifié par Mcfly616, 18 mars 2013 - 10:26 .

[draken-heart]

Nothing of the game makes sense, because I believe it is supposed to be played from an I.T. mindset, or just play with the "it was all a coma dream" in terms of the entire trilogy.

[Knight of Dane]

Untrue, we would already have felt that prior to Leviathan's announcement, and from what I remember there wasn't anything near a majority raging against the backstory.

[Auztin]

Yes it is perfect let's have the Reapers who are obviously arrogant give them no motive or reason they existed.Let's fight Synthetic/Organic Gods with laser beams basically that says it is for the Ultimate Plan.
Catch the sarcastic irony yet.It was already foreshadowed that someone was leading them & they have a purpose for "preserving" us.In a less **** way of saying this I completely disagree.